Talk:Cowboy Bebop

Regarding a Section Deleted on November 14, 2008

I deleted the section on the "ban" of Cowboy Bebop in Iran. That film is not any more "banned" in Iran than any other unauthorized film. The legal process required for producing domestic films and releasing foreign ones in Iran leaves no place for bans.

All media is unauthorized and therefore "banned" unless it becomes authorized by going through the legal process. Put briefly the media approval process in Iran works not on the basis of "innocent until proven" but on that of "guilty until proven."

Most of the media content released worldwide never goes through the process and is therefore "banned" in Iran but that, of course, doesn't mean it cannot be accessed by the Iranian people.

Just in case: IMDb is wrong about a ban on Cowboy Bebop in Iran, and that mistake has leaked into Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.133.203.247 (talk) 14:50, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

BANG!

'Bang!' is actually a relatively common thing in Anime. It was also said as the final line in Gantz, and was also used in Trigun a number of times. It can also been seen in the Live Action Death Note movie, as well as a ton of other places I can't even remember. Considering Cowboy Bebop originally aired on Adult Swim, I'm not entirely sure if it was a DIRECT 'influence' on Pop Culture even though Steve Blum voiced Tom and also voiced Spike. I think it's just a funny coincidence honestly.

As a side-note, can anyone here actually EXPLAIN 'Bang!' to me and what that's supposed to symbolize/represent/mean? --136.142.46.33 (talk) 20:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC) It's merely the noise a gun makes :/ that's the best I can explain it. -Robobvious 96.233.64.228 (talk) 20:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Aside from being a gun noise, it is used to reference Spike's conversation with the "kid" at the end of Sympathy for the Devil, who asks him if Spike understands what it means to want to die, or to be relieved by death (I don't recall his exact phrasing). Spike responded by saying "Yeah, I understand... As if," then tossed the kid's harmonica in the air and shot it with his finger. When Spike, at the end of the series, shoots at the syndicate goons with his finger, he is apparently recalling this conversation, implying that he now understands what it means to find relief in one's death. AsbestosBill (talk) 21:07, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I think the last statement is a little bit of a stretch. "Bang" isn't unique to Cowboy Bebop. Trigun came out before Cowboy Bebop and had Vash pointing his finger at the suns and saying "Bang bang." That was an expression of triumph, he won the day. Same with Spike in Cowboy Bebop - in both instances he had defeated an enemy, Wen and Vicious. "Bang." --MrsSpooky 01:00, 5 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

You would have to supply a lot more research to convince me that shooting with one's finger has a /specific/ meaning or connotation that can be safely inferred in any context. Spike's encounter with Wen was not a battle that he won; it was an execution—part high-plains justice, part mercy killing. There wasn't even a bounty on his head. It doesn't fit with his character or with the tone of the episode for him to gloat about it. Vicious was an enemy he defeated, but that was an old debt and Vicious used to be his friend and comrade. Looking at the big picture, with a series so short, there's no way they could reuse the gesture so overtly without it being intentional. Not in two of the serious episodes. AsbestosBill (talk) 02:12, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree, "[hard to be convinced that] shooting with one's finger has a /specific/ meaning or connotation that can be safely inferred in any context." Pretty much all we can do is guess. It may mean different things to different people, and that's kind of what this looks like here. It sounds like you are inferring something from Spike's "Bang" at the end of Sympathy for the Devil that I don't get (that is, I'm reading that differently). In both cases here, Spike won the day (whether it was executing Wen or killing Vicious). It looked like defiance and triumph to me. *shrug* It may look like something else to another. MrsSpooky 15:32, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

"See also"

"See also"... "List of Cowboy Bebop voice actors"... And it's a red link. That's just stupid. Whoever did that should have actually made the list of voice actors first... "See also: Nothing!" ... worse than trivia sections...--Zantetsken (talk) 04:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

If you had bothered to click the red link you would see that the page used to exist, but has since been deleted. Postmodern Beatnik (talk) 16:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

information vs spoilerage

the paragraph outlining Ein's character makes some allusions to his enhanced intelligence and abilities, but misses the more telling parts e.g. his demonstrated hacking ability (when Ed put the cyberspace goggles on him and was in awe of how fast he navigated the 'net and broke codes), somewhat human and resigned reactions to situations, etc. Not a normal doggie :) ... but then has it been missed on purpose to avoid spoilers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.180.56 (talk) 21:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

That information was originally present in two places, the main page and the list of characters page. Since these examples were redundant, and this article was already cited for having excessive plot detail, specific examples were removed from the main article and left in the list of characters page. The intention of the characters section in this article is to be a summary of the characters without getting mired in a redundant retelling of plot. It gives the reader the essential information so that they know who the character is without bloating the section with "this one time he did X, and in the next episode he did Y" which they can see if they click through to the "list of characters" page. Hewinsj (talk) 02:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

trivia

episode 22 did not air in the original two runs in the USA on Cartoon Network. Not sure how to reference this, the particular episode description was never listed by tv guide, as if it didn't exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.145.11 (talk) 06:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

You could try checking Anime News Network. I think I remember them talking about the episodes that were cut around the time that they were supposed to air. This wouldn't be trivia though, it could probably fit under reception or criticism. Hewinsj (talk) 00:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's a short ANN article about how the episodes were removed as a response to 9-11, and pulled from the programming list because the network felt they were inappropriate at the time. Hewinsj (talk) 16:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Why is a bootleg dvd box set used as the main image?

The image used is from the "Perfect Sessions" which is not a legal box set. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VANY80R6L._SS500_.jpg There was never such a box set released by Bandai. They released a standard box set which has long been out of print, Remix box set and a "Best Sessions" which had selected episodes. This current image is of a bootleg version that is available on Amazon and other internet stores and not any official box or the Best sessions. The following images are of official releases. http://www.rightstuf.com/images/large_images/av1297.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513AzGXZX2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg 72.189.253.222 (talk) 01:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)Lacks

Your right, that image was used as the cover of a bootleg collection but it was also the cover art for the official box set released by Bandai in 2001. It included each of the original six DVDs packed in the original cases and a copy of the first Soundtrack inside a box with a flip-top lid. This image specifically is probably a display image used by retailers (Amazon, Right Stuf, Bestbuy) that was swiped by the bootleggers that you mention. Hewinsj (talk) 02:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

That said, I found a pic that somebody posted of a side shot of the official box set Hewinsj (talk) 02:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Talking about that, wouldn't it be cool if there was a section describing the different releases there have been? That could help people understand what to expect from each compilation, and spot potentially bootleg versions.--71.112.18.241 (talk) 10:30, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

That's not a bad idea. I don't have too much time right now, but I'll try to put something together when I can. If someone else wants to work on it though feel free. Hewinsj (talk) 13:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

And it's been added. I used info from the Anime News Network to detail the 3 DVD releases in chronological order. I also made a small table to collect details about the first DVD release. I didn't go much further because it was getting longer then the text that accompanied it. If I have time I'll come back later to see if I can find a way to add more columns for the "Remix" release since there are 6 volumes of both that and the original release. Hewinsj (talk) 15:52, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

why is spike the only one with an individual pic

can't we add some of faye jet ed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radicaledwardfan (talk • contribs) 18:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

If your talking about the one on the character page it's probably because no one's deleted it yet. Single images for characters like that (while good in some people's opinion because it illustrates the character) are generally frowned upon because it gets close to copyright infringement. It's easier to get away with a single picture that can cover a whole group of characters like the one on the main article that shows the whole crew.

That said, you can post an image if you need a visual example of something that your writing about that's outside the plot or a need to show what a character looks like. Hewinsj (talk) 05:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Missing Poster

The missing Poster image can be found here: http://journal.sarahcada.com/uploaded_images/cowboy-bebop-754433.jpg I have no idea how to upload it to Wikimedia, sorry. (81.173.147.0 (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

Plot is not BG info

The plot section is detailing background informations and not the plot of the show. It is as it would be about the setting of the show and not about the show. The gate incident may be important for the setting, but it is only mentioned in some episodes. The plot section should detail a condensed version of the story of the episodes. 81.182.237.214 (talk) 07:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You got that right. From the histories, it looks like this stuff was once in a "Setting" section or the like, but its uncited, and frankly, not a very notable part of this world-class series. I'm pasting the stuff I cut out below, but don't recommend its return.

In the year 2021 AD, the first "Astral Gate" is built in orbit around the Moon; a hyperspace gateway meant to expedite space colonization by making travel between planets a matter of days instead of months or years. This gate, due to an internal defect, is destroyed in an incident that comes to be known as the "Gate Accident"; the gate exploded, and a massive blast of energy erupted from the gate and cracked the surface of the Moon, destroying a large part of it. Lunar debris immediately began to fall upon the Earth, devastating the planet's surface and killing 4.7 billion people. Fifty years later the human race numbers only 1.6 billion, but has colonized the entire Solar System through the use of perfected Gates.

While the Earth is still inhabited, its few remaining denizens must shelter themselves from the continuing rock falls in underground cities. With reconstruction rendered impossible by the rock falls, the human race instead terraformed other bodies of the Solar System including a variety of space habitats and industrialized asteroids. This solar community maintains a high level of racial and cultural diversity, and continues to use a large number of different languages, artwork and governments. However, its economy is predominantly Asian, using a nondivisible currency called the Woolong.

The population crash has led to a relative stagnation in technological development, though the Gates make space travel relatively easy. Directed energy weapons exist, but are large and dependent on heavy power sources. Gunpowder-based projectile weapons are the mainstay of combat, and many gun models from the beginning of the 20th century continue to be widely used.

As the Gates make it possible to cross the System in a matter of weeks, it became unfeasible for law enforcement to pursue criminals away from a given world. Criminal activity increased at every level of society; small-time criminals could act with relative impunity, and ruthless crime syndicates became as powerful as multinational corporations. In response, the bounty system of the Old West was reinstated throughout the System. Bounty hunters are encouraged to capture criminals and return them (alive and relatively unharmed) to the authorities for monetary rewards, in part through a regular television broadcast of "Big Shot", a bounty-hunter news program featuring Punch and Judy. This TV show is broadcast with a western motif and in the slang of the era, the term "Cowboys" refers to bounty hunters.

---

The Bebop is made up of a bridge, general living quarters, storage for food and supplies, and a small hangar to allow docking of smaller one-man space vessels.

Now we need the plot of Cowboy Bebop properly put in... --Yamara ✉ 01:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't like the phrasing of this

Now, I agree with the sentiment expressed in 'It is considered one of the best anime series ever made', but that phrasing just strikes me as the sort of thing written by an obsessed fan. Vranak (talk) 18:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Could be changed to 'It is considered one of the best anime series ever made, as of Newtype USA' or something like that. It obviously need to be reconsidered, even if I, me too, share the sentiment that Cowboy Bebop is one of the best anume series ever made. OrphLL (talk) 00:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

This irks me too. At first the phrase was acceptable to me, thinking that the series has received critical acclaim through the years that it has existed, and across many countries (most especially Japan). Then I clicked on the link and saw the least credible source I could've ever imagined: a survey, by a publisher I've never really heard of (which, upon research, I've learned ceased publication), in a single country not exactly known for its booming anime fandom, and for only a short period of time. Ridiculous.

I would suggest a more ambiguous phrasing. Something like "It is considered by many fans to be one of the best anime series ever made (or 'of all time')" StryyderG (talk) 20:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

But that would fall into weasel words wouldn't it? I am a big fan too, but I support the idea of getting a more reliable source to support it. It shouldn't be very hard to find one, or is it?. In the lecacy section there is a mention that CB landed 2nd place in a top 25 list by Newtype USA (I don't know who they are), that according to an article by animenewsnetwork.com. Are they as reputed as their motto says ("...most trusted anime news source")? if so the statement could use that source.--71.112.18.241 (talk) 10:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't the phrase "critically acclaimed" be used, presuming someone found reputable critics to cite? I would also have thought that surveys by reputable magazines and review sites could also be used to support the popularity amongst anime fans. I'm also pretty sure that Animenewsnetwork.com is reputable, but whether it is WP:RELIABLE? 124.169.112.178 (talk) 10:03, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Opening

Would it be correct to say that the opening was Saul Bass inspired? Jigen III (talk) 14:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Only if you can find commentary from a credible source to back that up. Hewinsj (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Tokyopop anime guides

Would you all please use the Cowboy Bebop anime guides by Tokyopop to reference additional material for this article? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you should, really, or someone else who wants to sign up for the member-only-access site you name. Without membership, I could not get anything off of it other than an image, and we have those already. Anarchangel (talk) 00:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I have the books. What needs them as a reference? When/if I have time I can review the article(s) and add references, but it would be quicker if they could be pointed out to me.--MrsSpooky 22:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

music cd quality

As a late comer to the anime genre, but as an avid critic of music, I find the cds, of my daughter to contain very high quality music . This wikipedia page has provided useful material in my search on the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.113.135.10 (talk) 17:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Cast image

I've removed File:Cowboy-bebop-754433.jpg from the article as it is a complete failure at actually identifying the characters. The characters are far to small and the faces are unrecognizable. Even on the full size image, these is insufficient detail with the characters' design. I also don't see that it being an "outdoor scene" gives it any additional significance as outdoor scenes are not unusual for this type of science fiction, nor mentioned in the critical commentary. —Farix (t | c) 17:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I like your adding of the names to the infobox pic, well done.
You are wrong about it being useless for comparison, however, because the other photo, where you can see their faces could still be compared by to to put a name to each face, as their bodies are very distinctive. Obviously it is preferable to put that part of the caption directly underneath the best picture for it, so I will leave that caption where it is.
However, the outdoor image is valuable for another reason, that is clearly stated in the caption. The infobox image is almost entirely unlike anything in the series; it is dark to the point of being gloomy, and Goth subculture is just not what CB is about. Hence other half of the caption, which together with the picture makes it clear that outdoor scenes are a common part of the series. This also cannot be stated merely with words. Anarchangel (talk) 00:13, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Um, I don't see anything in the DVD cover image that will give someone the impression that it is part of the Goth subculture. The use of Dark or black doesn't mean that something is Gothic. But it does convey the series "gritty" portrayal of the characters. Moreover, there is not sourced critical commentary about the image or the series visual style in relation to the image. So it fails WP:NFCC Criteria #8. —Farix (t | c) 01:05, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

"Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."? That sounds more like the argument I was making than an argument against it. Anarchangel (talk) 04:29, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the image as doing anything other than being decorative. It illustrates nothing mentioned in the text of the article and the reader is not going to miss anything if the image is absent. So its removal will not be detrimental to the article. The caption is also self-serving as outdoor scenes are rather common in science fiction, but the caption tries to implies that it is something unusual about Cowboy Bebop. —Farix (t | c) 11:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Update to 'Legacy Section'

Added quote from an IGN article, I have not learned how to properly reference yet, so if anyone wants to add the link it is this:

http://music.ign.com/articles/708/708910p2.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by EditorSchmetitor (talk • contribs) 20:56, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Sales rankings in May 2000

Y'all may find this reference useful: http://web.archive.org/web/20010706135824/http://j-pop.com/anime/news/top10.html

It gives top-10 sales rankings of anime in the US & Japan. This is included in the list. --Gwern (contribs) 01:30 26 January 2010 (GMT)

Reference 26, Daily Texan Online

There is an interview with director Shinichiro Watanabe that is used as a reference in a number of Cowboy Bebop pages here. They are moving to a new web host and not all of the pages are currently accessable. I have been told it will soon be available again, just in case someone goes through to clean up broken links, please leave the Daily Texan Online link alone at least until the end of April. Thanks! --MrsSpooky 21:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

I heard from the webmaster who said the Watanabe interview will be back, but he didn't have an ETA. If I have to, I can provide a link to the cache of the page http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:_Ze_hhDkwKoJ:www.dailytexanonline.com/life-arts/cowboy-bebop-director-watanabe-talks-anime-1.971462+watanabe+daily+texan+bebop&hl=en&client=safari&gl=us&strip=1

--MrsSpooky 16:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Need opinions. Daily Texan Online still hasn't placed the interview back on the web page and the cache expired. I had the cache as a pdf, but don't know if that will be a valid link for a reference. I just found that the full text of the interview was posted to this message board: http://www.setbb.com/amalgam/viewtopic.php?t=1783&sid=b13dafbf5a7c8d3b2c6e444b970e38c4&mforum=amalgam . Would that be valid to use in place of the Daily Texan interview? That interview is a valuable resource and is referenced in a number of articles here and I hate to lose it because they haven't put the page back up in an archives section. Any thoughts? MrsSpooky 17:53, 30 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

"Manga Demographic: Shōjo, Shōnen"

??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.99.32.190 (talk) 03:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I changed it to Shojo. 91.115.89.172 (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Out of interest, why is this anime / manga considered shōjo? I'm curious because it really doesn't seem to be aimed at girls, surely the intended demographic of the anime was a male and female audience? Churkirby (talk) 00:26, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

The Anime isn't considered Shojo, but the Manga is: it was released in a Shojo magazine. I'm not even sure, whether the Japanese use the word "Shojo" also for anime (same for Seinen, Shonen, Josei), or whether it's manga-exlusive. 91.115.91.106 (talk) 06:11, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Faye Valentine's birth year

Was Faye Valentine born in 1994 or 1998? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.16.53 (talk) 00:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The show took place in 2071 and she was 23 years old. She came out of cryosleep three years previously after 54 years, so she must have been 20 when the accident happened. I came up with 2071 - 3 - 54 - 20 = 1994. --MrsSpooky 13:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

well i doubt it's necessary to state her exact age, especially if no other source gives any attention to it. it would be good to mention she's over certain ammount years old. Bread Ninja (talk) 20:06, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It probably isn't necessary, 'cause it's not stated in the show (the show doesn't state Spike's age either), but it IS referenced in Anime Guide #1 on page 8. In fact, I think the only character whose age was given in the show was Jet, and that was in a promo.--MrsSpooky 22:49, 3 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

Live action - Joshua long

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2010-10-15 Audio interview 23:00-37:45 on 15/10/2010

An interview with Joshua Long, independent film producer and co-founder of 1212 Entertainment. He is the executive producer of the live-action cowboy bebop movie. His company seems to have been renamed recently from 3 arts entertainment.

• says half a billion dollars is misinterpreted
• "script is very big, bebop hops around planets"
• but its within the studios capability to make this movie
• "It does center around Spike, Vicious and Julia"
• "sits comfortably within the anime as we know it" - "Its not an origins story"
• "when fox gets behind a project they seriously get behind a project"
• "We need to find the right creative team, were not just going to take any creative team, so it does take time"
• "We're all so confident that its gonna go forward"
• "It's mars, these are decrepit civilizations... it's very moody, it's noir" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.161.33.199 (talk) 17:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2982080/ IMDB shows him as being involved in the development of cowboy bebop (2011)

203.161.68.25 (talk) 12:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Under STORY:

"They are a team of bounty hunters who travel the Solar System trying to apprehend bounties."

Should be:

"They are a team of bounty hunters who travel the Solar System trying to apprehend criminals and collect bounties." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.139.196.247 (talk) 17:07, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Not really.Bread Ninja (talk) 17:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Genre

Does manga really have Shōjo genre? It more like falls into Shōnen manga genre. 79.104.216.181 (talk) 06:49, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Shōjo is a age demographic group and not a genre. Second, Asuka Fantasy DX is listed as a shōjo manga magazine, meaning that its readers are young girls—probably in the upper end of the age demographic (teenagers). —Farix (t | c) 15:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)