Talk:Listerine

FreshBurst Came First

I don't know who keeps changing it. My parents used FreshBurst long before '02, and I have not seen Cool Mint until '02. The fact these are switched is pure vandalism. I would like to see who does this. TheListUpdater 02:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

If you could find a citation, that would help! Wikipedia prefers verifiable information. Why should we take your word for it? BTW, removing unverifiable information is not vandalism. --Faith healer 12:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, TheListUpdater, you've gone about this the wrong way. First of all that warning to "cite" that person for vandalism is not only a threat that wards off new users, it is also empty because they aren't being a vandal if they truly believe that FreshBurst appeared in '02. Also, the fact that your parents used FreshBurst "long before '02" is original research of information that is difficult to verify.

OK, that was a long time ago, but it didn't say that on the website that FreshBurst did come in 2002, so that part is wrong.TheListUpdater 16:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Alcohol

What kind of alcohol? If it were the consumable type, wouldn't a drinking alcohol tax be applicable? ✈ James C. 03:07, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)

The alcohol is a de-natured, pharmaceutical grade alcohol that is only present in order to solubolize the essentail oils, which gives Listerine its antiseptic effectivenes. -Unknown

Well, what happens if you drink it, then? 63.202.81.76 11:37, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

You get drunk. It's ethanol. But many products contain ethanol that don't have a drinking alcohol tax on them, because they're not meant to be consumed orally. --X 0 15:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

DO NOT drink denatured alcohol. It is not pure ethanol. It has additives designed to make it unfit for human consumption...sometimes including methanol which your liver turns into formaldehyde. Although I doubt Listerine contains any methanol, the other additives are still designed to make you sick.63.250.85.186 13:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

You'd be right to doubt that listerine contains methanol, I would find extremely surprising that any product kids use to rinse thier mouth out everyday would contain something as toxic as methanol, even if they spit it out after rinsing the tissues in their mouth would've absorbed enough of it to be lethal after a few weeks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.253.17.139 (talk) 01:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

If there was no evidence to back up the claim that it kills odor-causing bacteria, wouldn't the company be sued or something? At the very least the thing about it helping prevent gum disease has to be true, right?

Listerine has been on the market for over 125 years and has over 130 clinical studies proving its safety and efficacy. -Unknown

Even if they could be sued, there's no reason to assume that they would be - who would bring the suit? A regulatory authority might ask them to modify their claims, but these generally lack, er, teeth. Since their competitor mouthwashes like to push similar claims, ie. that mouthwashes can usefully ameliorate bad breath, there's unlikely to be a suit (compare something like this).

There are actually a couple of claims here: First that the mouthwash kills "germs", by which they presumably mean normal mouth flora and not some exotic pathogen (the ethanol concentration isn't actually high enough to kill much of anything, though it can suppress growth of some bacteria), and second that bad breath (a) is at least partly caused by such "germs" and (b) can be meaningfully reduced by killing (or suppressing) them. The problem is that the causes of bad breath are all that well-understood, and the cures for it have a long history of being made from pressed snake (with virtually no entries that are supported by any evidence). There'd be a big market for anything that did work, which is why any claim in the area is naturally going to be viewed with suspicion without strong evidence to back it up.

The more recent claim that mouthwash can affect plaque formation (and thus some forms of gingivitis) is also questionable; some people seem to think that some of the ingredients in Listerine (other than ethanol) can reduce it, though the FDA may not be convinced (need a more recent reference for that than I've been able to find). As with bad breath, there are a lot of marginal claims in this area too - my favourite is on all of the toothpastes with marketing bumpf claiming they prevent plaque deposits, when what actually does that is the simple action of brushing itself, pretty much regardless of the paste ingredients (just as mechanical action is what makes flossing work, not the composition of the floss). I don't know whether a proper controlled study has examined whether the vigourous swishing action of a mouthwash is responsible for any benefit. Unfortunately, most of the studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies, and most of the reporting consists of their advertising. - toh 23:29, 2005 Jan 10 (UTC)

I drank Listerine when i was 12 years old several times a day about a litre (34 floz) bottle in a week, i got a bit nauseous . but I'm alive, healthy, and have drank alcohol at least once a week since i was 14 as well as occasionally some acid (LSD) or laughing gas —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Right Honourable (talk • contribs) 06:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Scope

How about an article on Scope? Let's avoid free advertizing. -Unknown

What is even Scope? In the United Kingdom it is a charity for children with disabilities, but I doubt the Scope mentioned here is the same thing. I am assuming it is something well known in America, but not elsewhere, please do remember there are English speaking people not from America so either briefly explain what Scope is, link to a wiki article about or reference an external link which has information on the story! Feebtlas 20:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

(Sorry for not signing the comment above). Look at the third paragraph of the article. Basically, Scope is a competitor. I'm actually not sure anymore whether it deserves its own article; it doesn't have the history Listerine has. But all it has now is a short sentence in the disambiguation. Twilight Realm 20:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Effect on saliva drug test?

Will it effect the out come of the drug test? -Unknown

Gargling with it wouldn't affect the outcome of a urine or blood test, as enough of it doesn't enter your blood stream to be detected. It will, however, cause a higher reading on a breath analyzer test, as shown on an episode of, I think, Brainiac (a comedy/entertainment/science show from the UK). The breath analyzer systems in use read the amount of alcohol on your breath, and then extrapolates that number to determine the amount in your blood. If there is alcohol in your mouth, it can give false readings as alcohol on your breath. This being said, you'd have to gargle, spit and take the test within a few minutes, or the alcohol would evaporate or be diluted by saliva and swallowed, and then you'd have a normal reading. --X 0 15:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Since mints are known to cause false negatives on saliva tests (specificly tests for cannabinoids) I would hazard a guess that listerene would do the same thing, albeit in a much more noticeable and less portable way. -Unknown

In the UK if you fail the brethalyser (blowing into a tube test) then you are taken to the police station to get a blood / urine test. Its the results of the latter test(s) which are actually used in court 94.168.168.153 (talk) 10:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Cancer controversy

There is no evidence that its properties as a solvent, mainly from the 26.9% (in regular Listerine) alcohol, cause an easier reception of carcinogens.

If this were true, there would be no controversy, would there? Well, at least among the rationally minded. I sense a POV problem here, or perhaps the author just neglected to describe the controversy.

A large and often-cited study suggesting such a link is the National Cancer Institute study of 1991. [1] In interviews of 866 patients with oral cancers and 1249 controls of similar age and sex among the general population, researchers concluded that "risks of oral cancer were elevated by 40% among male and 60% among female mouthwash users." They found a proportional correlation between risks in both sexes and duration and frequency of mouthwash use.

The NCI study was refuted by a Journal of the American Dental Association review in 2003. [2] Of the nine studies JADA reviewed, they found that two showed some positive connections between alcohol-containing mouthwash use and oral cancer. However they concluded that "the weight of the evidence strongly suggests that use of [alcohol-containing mouthwash] does not increase the risk of [oropharyngeal cancer]." --Dforest 18:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The weight of evidence seems to be changing.

A December 2008 study (McCullough, M. J. and C. S. Farah (2008). "The role of alcohol in oral carcinogenesis with particular reference to alcohol-containing mouthwashes." Australian Dental Journal 53(4): 302-305.) reviewed "the epidemiological evidence, supportive in vitro studies and mechanism by which alcohol is involved in the development of oral cancer".

Listerine brands had the highest alcohol content of all the reported mouthwashes. The mouthwashes were:

 Table 1. Alcohol content of some commercially available mouthwashes
Mouthwash	Ethanol concentration (%)
Listerine Antiseptic	26 v/v
Listerine Teeth Defence	22 v/v
Listerine Cool Mint	22 v/v
Listerine Tartar Control	22 v/v
Listerine Citrus Fresh	22 v/v
Listerine Smooth Mint	21.6 v/v
Cepacol Mint	15 v/v
Cepacol 	14 v/v
Savacol Original 	11.5 w/v
Savacol Freshmint	9.5 w/v
Listerine Whitening	8 v/v
Difflam Solution	7.5 w/v
Difflam-C Solution	7 w/v
Neutrafluor 220	7 w/v
Plax	6 w/v
Peroxyl	5.5 w/v
Neutrafluor 900	5 w/v
Curasept	0
Dentyl	0
Biotene	0
Oral B	0
Amosan 	0
Neutrafluor 220 Ethanol Free	0
Fluorocare 200 	0

They concluded "There is now sufficient evidence to accept the proposition that developing oral cancer is increased or contributed to by the use of alcohol-containing mouthwashes. Whilst many of these products may have been shown to be effective in penetrating oral microbial biofilms in vitro and reducing oral bacterial load, it would be wise to restrict their use to short-term therapeutic situations if needed. Perhaps the use of mouthwashes that do not contain alcohol may be equally effective. Further, mouthrinses should be prescribed by dentists, like any other medication. There may well be a reason for the use of alcohol-containing mouthrinses, but only for a particular situation and for a limited and controlled period of time. As such, patients should be provided with written instructions for mouthwash use, and mouthwash use should be restricted to adults for short durations and specific, clearly defined reasons. It is the opinion of the authors that, in light of the evidence currently available of the association of alcohol-containing mouthwashes with the development of oral cancer, it would be inadvisable for oral healthcare professionals to recommend the long-term use of alcohol-containing mouthwashes."

This conclusion seems very far from "rumour" noted in the wiki. The Cancer Council NSW chief executive Andrew Penman is reported as saying the review was "interesting, but called for further research.

Deeuubee (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2009 (UTC) There is a slight problem to this argument. The study that is mentioned didn't even ask people what mouthwash they used! In the countries involved in the study - Brazil, Argentina and Cuba - some don't even import Listerine and in none of them was Listerine the brand leader. prof McCullough has come in for a lot of criticism since for his sloppy approach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.14.207 (talk) 12:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Benzoic acid

Listed in the ingredients... I've had 2nd hand explanations from a few people (including a dentist) that Listerine may actually be detrimental to dental health. Most tooth decay is caused by acids (including acidic by-products from microbes); although Listerine is an effective antiseptic, does the acid it contains threaten teeth? I was further told that, after brushing, the protective surface layer of the teeth would have been relatively weakened, making teeth more vulnerable to acids. Perhaps in need of an expert.

Everything you eat and drink has acids in it. Apples are, in generally, very acidic, but are considered good for dental health. My thoughts are that the benefits of the antibacterial action FAR outweigh the damage caused by the slight acidity of Listerine. X 0 18:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

You don't generally do it for a very long period. You swish your mouth out with water to remove the taste afterwards anyway, so that would help neutralize any acid. Tyciol (talk) 15:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Safety recall

Recent news on CNBC stated that Listering "Cool Blue Plaque" is being recalled. Some preservatives in it may promote growth of bacteria. Thoughts? -Unknown

I think it would be useful to clarify that the recalled product line "Listerine Agent Cool Blue" is a very different product than any of the traditional Listerine Mouthwash products. Listerine Agent Cool Blue is a plaque disclosing rinse, not a anti-badbreath mouthwash.

It is a totally different product, with a different formulation, aimed at a different problem. It might also be useful to point out that the potential bacterial growth problem would be unique to the anti-plaque rinse since it doesn't contain the potent antimicrobials that are the core of the other Listerines. I mention this because it took me a bit of checking before I realized the distinction. 75.80.164.40 (talk) 07:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Saccharin Sodium

Listed in the "Non-medical Ingredients" of the Canadian Cool Mint Listerine is the artificial sweetener saccharin sodium. Can this lead to oral cancer would be my first question, the second would be why is this legal in Canada? I would guess because you don't actually ingest the mouthwash that saccharin inclusion does not warrant it's illegality or safety labeling?

Glass listerine bottle photo?

Are there any public-domain photos of the old-style glass listerine bottle, or could somebody take a photo of one? That'd be nice to add to the history section. --NeuronExMachina 02:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Animation

Luxo jr was years before the Listerine comercial. Toy Story was being worked on when the Listerine animation was on the air. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.241.144 (talk) 18:05, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The Alcohol in Listerine

Hi, Just thought I'd let you know that i tested listerine today in the lab and i got 24.17 % alcohol v/v with it...so it would be a bit nasty to drink but, if your desperate.... ;-) -Unknown

Feelings of desperation to get drunk are best not heeded. Tyciol (talk) 15:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The roughly 1/4% alcohol content seems to have been somewhat consistent throughout the product's history. The article claims the "original gold Listerine" contained as much as 26.9% alcohol, but this claim is followed by "citation needed." The 26.9% figure is cited often online, but I can't find anything to back it up. There is a 1952 Listerine commercial on YouTube that shows a close-up of the "original" bottle, which lists alcohol as 25%. It's 0:41 seconds into the video at http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=56tsVh7hMCA

Name of inventor?

Article claims that the inventors of Listerine were Dr. Nicole Dyer Lawrence and Christian Bach. Find-A-Grave claims that it was invented by Dr Joseph Joshua Lawrence, and Sheila Barrett claim that the inventors were Dr. Joseph Lawrence and Jordan Wheat Lambert. I don't have access to a real WP:RS source for them, but those 2 seem to agree that the names currently there are wrong. In the absence of evidence for the other names, I'm changing them to what Sheila Barrett thinks. --Alvestrand (talk) 08:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Growing up I had been told that my great grandfather invented Listerine. His name was Peppino Melfi born 4/8/1857 in Naples, Italy. He immigrated to the US and attended high school in Troy, NY and then went to Syracuse University (Syracuse, NY) and Graduate Scientific Course of Collegiate Institute in Fort Eward, NY. He became a physician who practiced in Syracuse, NY and wrote "The Germs of Disease and How to Combat Them" published in the NY State Medical Reporter. At the time they were discovering about germs and he tried to invent an antiseptic and was not inventing a mouth wash. He sold the formula to another doctor who then named it after a Dr. Lister, calling it "Listerine" as a mouth wash.--MoJoToo (talk) 18:06, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Poloxamer 407

I see alot of talk on here about the alcohol and whether it is drinkable or not, but I just read one of the ingredients as 'Poloxamer 407', which is a well known substance used in research to put rats/mice into a hyperlipidemic state. [3] [4]. I know that wikipedia isn't a doctor, but this should be mentioned on the page with regards to drinking Listerine. --Mark PEA (talk) 10:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Gargling

While this has been brought up in the talk page, gargling is not mentioned at all in the article. While I know it is used as a swishing mouthwash, I think it is common enough to use Listerine as a gargling solution to deserve its mention. Tyciol (talk) 15:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Trivia section

I've relocated the trivia section here to facilitate an quick cleanup.

Trivia

• A 1970s commercial for Listerine featured Judd Hirsch playing a radio disc jockey, in what was one of his first television appearances. The tagline for the product at the time was, "The taste people hate, twice a day."

• Hyphy Rapper E-40's "Tell Me When to Go" includes the line "Talking on my Ghettro on the way to the store/... My 2nd or 3rd trip/Some Henny, some Swishers and some Listerine strips."

• The song "Germfree Adolescents" on the 1978 Germ Free Adolescents album) from punk rockers X-Ray Spex contains the line "Rinse your mouth with Listerine". In the UK, however, singer Poly Styrene sang the line as "Rinse your mouth with glycerine" on Top of the Pops and other BBC performances, due to the BBC's ban on the use of product names.

• In the mid-1990s, Listerine rival Scope, made by Procter & Gamble, listed Rosie O'Donnell as the least-kissable celebrity in the U.S. In response, O'Donnell teamed up with Listerine to give money to charity every time she kissed someone on her talk show, The Rosie O'Donnell Show; this provided positive publicity for Listerine and harsh publicity for Scope, which O'Donnell disparaged on her show.

• Pixar Animation Studios animated many commercials for Listerine, before it became known for short films, like Luxo Jr.

• The punk-cabaret band The Dresden Dolls on their 2006 album Yes, Virginia… end their song "Necessary Evil" with the line "Come on and take your Listerine."

• Natalie Teeger, a character from the TV series Monk, asked her daughter to fill the tub with Listerine in the episode Mr. Monk and the Leper after discovering her date had previously been afflicted with Hansen's Disease.

• Coach Z, a character from the internet series Homestar Runner, routinely drinks Listerine recreationally, most notably during a Christmas special.
• Philip J. Fry, a character from the animated series Futurama, didn't find voting cool, so he stayed home alone and got trashed on Listerine. (S02E07 - A Head In The Polls)

• "Dramamine", a song by Modest Mouse features the lyrics, "Traveling swallowing Dramamine, feelin' spaced, breathing out Listerine"

• In an article in Mad Magazine satirizing television commercials, this exchange appears:

Q. What do you think of the taste of Listerine?

A. Taste?! I use it for removing grease from my bicycles!

• Tom Carver, a character from the 2007 movie Cleaner portrayed by Samuel L. Jackson, says he uses Listerine, the original flavor, because it has an enzyme that liquifies coagulated blood.

I'll work on this tonight, then remove this section. Cheers. L0b0t (talk) 19:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Could do with some non-US content

This article is 99% US-based, even though Listerine is well known in other places (eg the UK). Some indication of where it is sold would be nice, for example, as would reference to some non-US safety studies. 86.136.253.102 (talk) 18:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

What about Dandruff Remedy?

Listerine was once advertised as a cure for "Infectious Dandruff," claiming to kill the germs that caused it. There's other stuff about the history and false promises of Listerine, why not this? I guess citation is the problem. I only know because of an ad that was in an antique copy of Amazing Stories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.179.17.153 (talk) 01:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Methanol content

Does someone have a source confirming that methanol is an ingredient in Listerine? I find it hard to believe that the FDA, among other official bodies, would permit such a substance to be used in a product intended to be put in the mouth. Frotz (talk) 10:25, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll check, I highly doubt there is methanol in it. I've heard a plenty of the desperate drinking this stuff and not ending up with any sort of formaldehyde poisoning. C6541 (talk) 17:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd very much appreciate some definitive proof of this. There is a persistant belief that it contains methanol, even on what might otherwise be websites dispensing reliable medical information. Google: listerine methanol. Frotz (talk) 20:58, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The products have been extensively researched....

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Listerine+oral+cancer+mouthwash&btnG=Search

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=allintitle%3A+Listerine&btnG=Search --222.64.213.0 (talk) 01:10, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

but I'm not sure whether each of them has done so--222.64.213.0 (talk) 01:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

When doing research, each product under one brand should be specified--222.64.213.0 (talk) 01:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

the producct in menthol a common scent cover used in covering smells in pet urine and in bad breath- sometimes in toothpaste —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.110.129 (talk) 01:25, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Huh? Menthol is the chemical responsible for the characteristic cool sensation of mint and its basic flavour. Frotz (talk) 02:51, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Total Care active ingredients different

On my sample 95ml bottle of Listerine Total Care, the only active ingredient it lists is sodium fluoride. It doesn't mention the other "normal" active ingredients like menthol. Can someone confirm this via citation? If it's really a different formulation, then the "Composition" section needs to be qualified to show that some Listerine products do not have all the supposed germ-killing ingredients. Memetics (talk) 06:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

= People are drinking this Stuff to get Drunk

I don't see a page with short term and long term health problems from ingesting. Does it cause UTI's? and other symptoms as well as mortality and amounts .. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.19.71 (talk) 23:09, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice, free advertising!

The style of the article is partially unencyclopedic. Some parts are full-on promotion material. Casimirpo (talk) 15:42, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Listerine Zero

I notice that there's some information about alcohol-containing mouthwashes possibly causing cancer. An alcohol-free version called Listerine Zero is now available. This should probably be mentioned, though I can't seem to find a good reference link for it. Cowgod14 (talk) 01:18, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Origin of word halitosis

Freakonomics says that Listerine "was pitched as a solution to 'chronic halitosis', the faux medical term that the Listerine advertising group created in 1921 to describe bad breath." It cites James B. Twitchell, who wrote, "Listerine did not make mouthwash as much as it made halitosis."

But if you read Twitchell's book 20 Ads that Shook the World, he clearly says that the advertisers chose the word halitosis as a pre-existing term (p. 64):

"Here it is, Gerard. It says in this clipping from the British Lancet that in cases of halitosis..." I interrupted. "What is halitosis?" "Oh", he said, "that is the medical term for bad breath."

The term "halitosis" dates back to at least 1874, in the book The Breath, and the diseases which give it a fetid odor, by Joseph William Howe (p. 20).

—KHirsch (talk) 19:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I just independently discovered this when I tried to create a citation for the Freakonomics quote and discovered that the text of the quote was nowhere to be found on Google Books: the 2009 edition of Freakonomics no longer makes the claim that halitosis was a "faux medical term", so I have updated the quote in the article to reflect this. Thank you for making your comment and showing your evidence here in the talk page, KHirsch, because at first I had suspected that something more nefarious than a factual error was going on. Just goes to show that even things we consider to be reliable sources aren't such reliable sources. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 22:11, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Sounds Like an Advertisement

here's the citation for the 52% claim - don't know how to upload it thoiugh. .Sharma N, Charles CH, Lynch MC, et al. Adjunctive benefit of an essential oil-containing mouthrinse in reducing plaque and gingivitis in patients who brush and floss regularly: a six-month study. J Am Dent Assoc. 2004;135:496-504. I added the written like an advert tag to the Composition section. It's written like an advert, especially this whole paragraph (which is entirely without citations):

"The efficacy of the treatment is due to the four essential oils carried in the alcohol base being able to break through the plaque biofilm more effectively than any other daily use mouthwash[citation needed] and penetrate the cell wall. Through this method, this treatment can reduce plaque levels by 52% more than brushing and flossing alone[citation needed]. Listerine is best used in conjunction with brushing and flossing, but not as a replacement.[13]"

I won't make any changes as of yet, as it could very well be true, just poorly cited, but it sounds suspicious to me, more like Listerine advertising/ego-stroking rather than encyclopaedic material. --Jake S 03:57, 31 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakesinnott (talk • contribs)

... Correct, this whole article is subverted by advertising. Very little of it's content are fact. Mouthwash destroys your natural flora and *causes* bad breath. Marketing genius. comment added by Anonymous