Talk:Industrial robot

Note that this article meets all the requirements for a class B but due to a disagreement with the assessor it is being held at C. Moreover the quality scale states "For robotics articles, B-class will mean anything that's definitely better than the "Start" category, but doesn't fit the description of "GA" above." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robotics1 (talk • contribs) 10:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC) Since everyone has gone home I am rating this article B myself. Robotics1 (talk) 11:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Only Content regarding industrial robots due to International Federation of Robotics and ISO definition (e.g. no service robotic, no automation systems, no mobile platforms), only articulated robots, cartesian, parallel, scara robots, flex picker. For other robotics content see robotics, robot, Autonomous_robot, Laboratory_robotics, Battlefield_robot, social robots or ludobot.

external links: only one link per industrial robot manufacturer (either link to headquarter or to english speaking page), no links to their distributors or integrators. note this section has been removed entirely due to editor conflicts. Robotics1 (talk) 12:46, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

comment on focus of article

Jdietsch 10:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC) You say that there should be no mobile platforms, yet the Future section explicitly refers to mobile platforms:

"Other developments include downsizing industrial arms for consumer applications and using industrial arms in combination with more intelligent Automated Guided Vehicles (AGVs) to make the automation chain more flexible between pick-up and drop-off."

Certainly IEEE considers AGVs to be industrial robots; their Robotics & Automation group focuses on mobile platforms, as does their Industrial Activities Board.

Stanford arm

The reference to the Stanford arm is in error. The Stanford arm was not the prototype for the PUMA. Scheinman designed a second arm for the MIT AI Lab. That was called the "MIT arm" and that's the one that evolved into the PUMA.

External Links

Someone called Veiner removed the entire external links to robot manufacturers section. I've asked him why. He has made no contribution to industrial robot before as far as I can see. Maybe he thinks they are commercial. On the other hand the remaining 'other links' are distinctly commercial. For example I can't see why Tim King is in there at all. Unless anyone objects I propose to put back the links to manufacturers and edit the list of 'other links' to those that are relevant to industrial robot if any. Robotics1 18:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

This section has now been removed entirely due to conflicts over who should or should not be in the list. Robotics1 (talk) 12:46, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

History

This looks like a good idea by the Bangladeshi student but he embedded his name even his phone number in the text. Plus the text was one long paragraph and needs to be made into a readable list. There had been so many edits with his name and phone number I just had to revert right back to the 18th august version. Removing each bit would have taken too long. The list can go back providing it is properly organized and has no name address and phone number. Robotics1 08:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

In fact there already is a list of the history of robotics in ROBOT. All this person has done is cut and the text out of that neat table and paste it into this article without any heading or any table. Robotics1 09:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Rework of this article.

I want to make some major changes but I don't want to step on the toes of the original writer.

My main concern is 'movements and singularities'. I think this should move up above 'robot programming'. Then the part of 'movement and singularities' which describes point to point programming should be moved down to below and part of 'robot programming'. Then I would like to copy the part of 'robot software' which describes how this point to point program would actually be programmed using various languages used in industrial robots.

Coming back to what will be left of 'movement and sigularities' I would like to expand a little on robot movement. I can't actually see any singularities at all in this section but I may have a different understanding of the word singularity. I would like to put in an example of a singularity in terms of what can go wrong.

Any comments please. Robotics1 21:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

pictures & focus

the article is about more then just about robot arms; the pictures must include other robots, other robots must be mentioned and perhaps some of the info can be moved to the robot arm article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.48.38 (talk) 09:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Robotics Design Inc. from list of industrial robot manufacturers

I found a commercial link and removed it. The originator restored it. Any opinions please on the following exchange:

No reason was given for the removal, except in the page history, where you claim that this compan does not manufacture industrial machines. I invite you to go on you tube and search for ANATROLLER robots, some industrial duct cleaning robots featured on youtube, or visit http://www.roboticsdesign.qc.ca/ for complete information on all Robotics Design's industrial robots. You change has been reverted, please notify me of an changes being made to my posts when doing so. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadiansteve (talk • contribs) 21:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I disagree. The article is all about industrial robots. The robot manufacturers listed make industrial robot arms like the ones described in the text. I went to your company's website and I must say I was impressed. Some fantastic products, innovative and useful but not the sort of industrial robots that are described in the text. If you disagree with me then post on the discussion page and let's see what other opinions are. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we will need to elevate this to an administrator. I would have discussed this with you but you don't have a page. Robotics1 (talk) 22:22, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I have once again restored Robotics Design Inc. to the list and ask you not to remove it again. The ANATROLLER ARI-100 is an industrial duct cleaning robot that carries up to 100 pounds that can also be used for materials handling in the industrial workplace, made by Robotics Design. The ANATERGOARM AEA-15 manipulates up to 15kg manually and a new arm for Hydro-Quebec called the ANATERGOARM TMA-500 will manipulate 1,200 kg, and is set to be released this month. We also make the ANAT AMI-100 which is a robotic snake-arm manipulator that is used for assembly, welding and materials handling. The are all industrial robots, if you think there is another category Robotics Design should be presented in I encourage you to talk to staff and find it, but leave it be for now, it does fit perfectly into this section. Thank you. And you may discuss with me on my talk page.Canadiansteve (talk) 21:59, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

OK to prevent an edit war we should consult admin. However the status quo is that entries that are not agreed to fit should be left out until agreed. So I have deleted it again. I will now ask for admin opinion. Robotics1 (talk) 22:14, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

and now I see TOSY with their pingpong robot in there. And they have even created their own page. I am reporting that. Robotics1 (talk) 22:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Robotics Design products like Anatroller do not conform to the definition at the top of the article or in the talk page see above "Only Content regarding industrial robots due to International Federation of Robotics and ISO definition (e.g. no service robotic, no automation systems, no mobile platforms), only articulated robots, cartesian, parallel, scara robots, flex picker. For other robotics content see robotics, robot, Autonomous_robot, Laboratory_robotics, Battlefield_robot, social robots or ludobot." It is quite unambiguous. The Anatroller is a good machine but it does not belong here. Robotics1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:54, 27 November 2009 (UTC).

The ANAT AMI-100 is an hybrid scara articulated robot that is controlled by a central master controller, and individual modules can continuie to work without dirrections from the central controller. This is an industrial robot as defined and i never mentionned the ANATROLLER ARI-100 on this page so i am reverting your edit because the reason you provided was not relevant. For more information visit http://roboticsdesign.qc.ca/ami-100.html, or see a mention in the popular media at http://roboticsdesign.qc.ca/EPT%20Magazine%20sept%2009%20complete.pdf.

but you wrote the article. It even looks like the kind of article that you pay to have printed. Not that I am saying you did but it certainly does not count as media attention.Robotics1 (talk)

I must say I am really impressed with the ANAT modules. It is a super idea. Maybe is ok to mention in robot. But the ability to make the modules into an industrial robot is a gray area. We need other opinions. The ISO definition is clearly defined right at the top of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robotics1 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

First commercially available micro-processor controlled industrial robot.

First let me introduce myself as I am new to Wikipedia & declare an interest. I am working for ABB and notice that the ASEA IRB 6 robot does not get a mention in the Industrial robot entry. For completeness I think this should be considered. I would propose to add the following just BEFORE "In 1973 KUKA Robotics ....

In 1973 ABB Robotics (formerly ASEA) introduced the worlds first commercially available all electric micro-processor controlled robot. The first two of these IRB 6 robots were sold to Magnusson in Sweden for grinding and polishing pipe bends and were installed in production in January 1974.

Reference: Pages 51-54 The Extended arm of man by Lars Westerlund ISBN 91-7736-467-8 Robot Legend (talk) 09:33, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

ha! I see you did it anyway. However it looks fair to me. Sorry I didn't get back before. I try to look after this page but it is generally a very safe page i.e. very little vandalism so I get a bit lazy. The first micro-processor controlled robots would indeed be a milestone. Robotics1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC).

New to this so I did wait a while but then my impatience got the better of me. Seems like a fair edit. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robot Legend (talk • contribs) 08:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding early industrial robots: The Norwegian company "Trallfa" produced robots for internal use in 1964 (painting of wheelbarrows etc.) and these robots where commercially available by 1969. Production of industrial robots became the company's main product through the seventies and by 1985 they had ca 50% of the world market for robots for painting and surface treatment, according to their own hompage - www.trallfa.no (Norwegian only....). During the years 1985-1989 the company's robot-division was aquired by..... ASEA, of course (the later ABB and ABB Robotics). A picture of one of there models can be found here: http://www.norskdesign.no/industridesign/trallfa-robot-tredelt-versjon-article1706-287.html (the site of the Norwegian Design Council regarding Trallfa's price for excellent design i 1973). Their robots were all electric, but whether they were micro-prosessor controlled as early as in 1969, I don't know. Maybe user Robot Legend can help out here, since (s)he is working for the company that aquired Trallfa Robot? --Tinymonty (talk) 21:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Tinymonty - The Trallfa robots you refer to from the mid 60's to the early 80's were hydraulic not electric.129.35.204.162 (talk) 16:04, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• What's a "microprocessor" ? Given the usual interpretation of the term, and the general acceptance of the 1971 Intel 4004 as the first, that would rule out anything before the early '70s. Most early microprocessor robots were also using the RCA 1802 (and mostly Forth) which dates them to 1976 and after, rather than the very early Intel chips.

Mostly though, these first "microprocessor" robots were nothing of the sort, and were hosted by minicomputers instead - notably the PDP-8 family. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:18, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

ABB Robotics has its headquarters in China

Just to be clear.Please DO NOT reset the ABB Robotics HQ to Switzerland. Whilst ABB is headquartered in Zurich, ABB Robotics HQ is in Pudong, Shanghai, China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robot Legend (talk • contribs) 08:10, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I just researched it and you are right! I thought that was vandalism. My apologies. Robotics1 (talk) 19:36, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I thinks there are still some problems (in the article) though. Regarding these matters :-

Their own magazine from 2008 lists the head of robotics as "Anders Jonsson Head of Division - ABB Robotics" in Sweden, making him probably from ASEA, and has it's address as ABB Robotics AB, 721 68 Västerås, Sweden.[1]

In 2010 the head of robotics is now "Mark Kingsley President, Robotics" and the address is ABB Robotics AB, 721 68 Västerås, Sweden [2]

I think the problem you are suffering from is the production centre for Automation tech, as per the quote below, and its head office and the actual robotics division which had its head offices in Sweden, not Switzerland until Jan 2010.

"Anders Jonsson was appointed Executive ... In 2005, he was the head of the former Automation Technologies division in China." [3] "The Robotics division’s manufacturing and research and development locations are organized globally, with headquarters in China." (pp. 59)

Can all people who have researched this and found contradictory evidence please provide their results so that we can move forwards with this

Chaosdruid (talk) 16:15, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I emailed ABB and got this reply:

David thanks for your concern on the subject of the correct location of the ABB Robotics HQ.

I am David Marshall Head of Communications for ABB Robotics (& Robot Legend on Wikipedia) and I can confirm that the HQ is in Shanghai.

We have the Swedish (Vasteras) address in the magazines bacuase it is produced & edited from there but it is not our HQ.

Robotics1 (talk) 08:27, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Robotics Certification Standards Alliance (RCSA)

An external link was put in for this organisation by MartyRobar then removed by Andy Dingly as spam. I had a look t seems to be a non profit organisation and just the sort of external link that would contribute to this page. Doesn't look like spam to me. Any comments? Robotics1 (talk) 14:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

If you think it's legit, then re-add it. I removed this (and a batch of others) as it appeared to be a spam run across a number of articles, related to RCSA. It may well be that RCSA is reasonable as either or both an article, and as an EL. At the time it didn't demonstrate appropriateness for some of those to which it was added. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:31, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the heads up. I didn't know about the others but I'll restore this one. Robotics1 (talk) 17:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

+++ Why does Motoman seem to absent from the conversation? They have obtained #1 in U.S. Sales a couple of times over the last decade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.54.146.4 (talk) 03:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Yaskawa Motoman Robotics and Nachi Robotics

Yaskawa robotics home page says:

Yaskawa Electric Corporation Head Office 2-1 Kurosaki-Shiroishi, Yahatanishi-Ku, Kitakyushu, Fukuoka 806-0004 Japan

the US subsidiary is a subsidiary.

Nachi homepage lists the Tokyo HQ and the robotics division also HQ Tokyo.

Nachi-Fujikoshi Corporation Shiodome Sumitomo Building 1-9-2, Higashi-Shinbashi Minato-Ku, Tokyo, 105-0021 Japan Tel: 81-3-5568-5240 Fax: 81-3-5568-5236

Nachi Robot Engineering Co. Ltd Shiodome Sumitomo Building 1-9-2, Higashi-Shinbashi Minato-Ku, Tokyo, 105-0021 Japan Tel: 81-3-5568-5240 Fax: 81-3-5568-5236

Robotics1 (talk) 22:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Commercialism - List of Suppliers

This section has been tagged since March 2010. It is clearly commercial with links to Wikipedia pages and webpages of preferred suppliers. See WP:ELNO. Wikipedia does not support commercialism. This section must go. Rlsheehan (talk) 01:37, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. With these changes I have assessed the article as a B rating. Rlsheehan (talk) 16:35, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Reference section

See |WP:REF. References and sources can be footnotes, in-line citations, and general references such as books. Grouping them makes sense. This makes it clear that the books are indeed general references to support the article. Rlsheehan (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

If you feel strongly about it, go ahead and revert me. I'm just not keen about using "general references", because they end up cluttering up the article. These references have been here so long that the original editor that added them is probably long gone and will never end up applying an inline ref. But like I said revert me if you like. Wizard191 (talk) 16:59, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. This is a good article. The references are a little weak, yet not to the point of tagging it. This inclusion of general references strengthens the article so I could assess the article as a B in Technology. Rlsheehan (talk) 18:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I hadn't realized there was a discussion about this, sorry. But general references dot books does not seem to me to be any kind of improvement. This article is not a good article at all. It is already 8 years old and has changed very little. I added the paragraphs about repeatability but really it needs total restructuring. Tagging it or changing odd words here or there are not what is needed. That's just pruning, what we need is a creative effort. Robotics1 (talk) 22:30, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Rlsheehan if you are in the mood for pruning please take a look at robot software. It's a complete mess - a playground for every kid with a pet programming project. Half the article is external links. I just removed another asinine contribution by leaderpro but really it needs someone to wade in there with a flame thrower. Robotics1 (talk) 22:47, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, consensus seems to be that the article should not include books as general references. The lack of references now stops the article from earning a B Technology rating. Rlsheehan (talk) 02:36, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm getting a bit confused here. I don't know how or when it happened but the section entitled "notes" used to be called "references" and it currently contains the reflist. So assuming no-one objects I will rename it references. I confess my reversion was incorrect on that one. Seems I have contributed to the confusion and my apologies to Wizard191 with whom I have collaborated in the past. I hope this is ok with you Wizard191. Notes is now references that are referenced from the article in the usual way. The list of further reading can be called anything you like but they are not references because they are not referred to in the article. Or am I missing something? They are further reading, no more and no less. As for the grade I don't think it matters if it is a B or a C grade. As far as I am concerned it is not a good article but it is accurate, unlike robot software. If anyone wants to know what industrial robots are about this is it. There isn't anything better. As soon as I get time I will start to make suggestions about restructuring and I hope others who are interested in robotics will join me. Robotics1 (talk) 12:22, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Movement and singularities

I have two improvements I would like to make: First is to split this into two articles. Originally the section had movements and singularities mixed together with examples of programming steps. I already edited it a while back to put sinularity in its own paragraph. I would like to split off the software part and edit the remaining so that movements are discussed in just a bit more detail, for example how 5 and 6 axis robots move which in turn leads to the problem of singularity. It could also include the differences between pick and place and continuous path motions.

The second (additional) section would be more about the programming and would list all that P1 P2 stuff. So as not to rock the boat I wrote a lump about how this programming is actually done in the most popular robot labguages. I researched the major manufacturers for examples of programming to make that lump, but I ended up putting that into robot software to try to give that article some support and maybe a bit of grounding. The article is rather ethereal for the most part. However someone already removed the link, that I had to restore and the robot software article is already under attack as being too ambiguous (see that talk page). I am inclined to bring that lump back to industrial robot in this new section. Any thoughts? Robotics1 (talk) 13:04, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

DONE Robotics1 (talk) 17:03, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

manufacturers list on Industrial Robot

I have removed this entire section for 2 reasons: 1 it's a foot in the door for people to add more and more companies - see earlier discussions above - 2 the numbers quoted can not be verified - or if they can then we need references. Robotics1 (talk) 17:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

/* Reference section */

I see the statistics from IFR for reference 4 are no longer available. I have written to them to see if they have an alternative reference. Robotics1 (talk) 11:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC) New reference supplied and edited. Robotics1 (talk) 09:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

video added to defining parameters

The video didn't seem appropriate. It had nothing to do with defining parameters. There was no explanation of what the robots were supposed to be doing, neither could you see what they were doing. By all means put in a video but put it in a better section and explain what it is that we are seeing and what part of the article it illustrates.Robotics1 (talk) 09:08, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

media doesn't have to be directly relevant to the section it's next to. The description is provided by the caption not the section. In this case "A demonstration of a pair of industrial robots" which is accurate. They are not actually doing anything. They are decommissioned car construction robots that are now museum pieces.

After years of writing manuals I would say it does. People do expect the picture next to a paragraph to have some relation to the content of the paragraph. Robotics1 (talk) 22:34, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a manual.©Geni 01:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

of course not. But in a manual the picture is placed near the text to help explain the text. Same in a magazine article. Same in an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia is not a picture book. Just because someone has a nice picture doesn't mean they can insert it anywhere they want. The reader is reading a section, sees the picture or video right next to it and wonders what the hell it is for. I did, others did. So I removed it. If someone has a great video a propos of nothing in the article that is what youtube is for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robotics1 (talk • contribs) 23:22, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Howerver it is unlikely we will get a pic to show "Defining parameters" and we don't have one at the moment. The pics on the article all show robots as static items and thus it is useful to show robots as moving objects.©Geni 19:19, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

ok, put the video back. It was a good video. But can we put it under the pictures at the top of the page. It was just so out of context where it was. Robotics1 (talk) 20:20, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

The problem with that is that we already have a solid bank of images down the right of the page at the start and I'd prefer if that wasn't extended further.©Geni 21:18, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I think I have comfused myself. The video already is at the top of the page. I didn't delete it. Or am I confusing with another video? Robotics1 (talk) 08:37, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

extra confusion - it's not even a video. It's a picture. I don't know who created this section in talk. I thought it was me but my original paragraph has been deleted. There is also one paragraph above that is not signed. How did that happen? Anyway I suggest we leave the page as it is. But if some video were forthcoming it would be a good addition in place of one of the pictures. Robotics1 (talk) 08:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Going to add something on electric motor types used.

Is this ok? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericg33 (talk • contribs) 09:27, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. — ¾-10 22:02, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Pick and Place ambiguous?

Not familiar with robots, and new to editing wikipedia, but there is a type of soldering surface mount components referred to as "pick-and-place" (which involves a pick and place machine), the article is here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SMT_placement_equipment -- when the main article refers to "pick and place" and links to the word "pick", I was a little confused. I suggest altering that statement in a way that removes the ambiguity between "pick-and-place" soldering and picking up objects and placing them down (seriously, there has to be a better phrase for that.)

First of all, re-factoring other peoples posts can be regarded in a bad light, as one is not really supposed to do that. I realise that your intent may have been simply to help by making obvious corrections, but please remember that some may take offence at being corrected.

The term pick and place is correctly applied to robotic machines and robots that perform that series of actions, picking up and placing down - be they a P&P machine such as those used for components on a soldering board, Freddy II or for palletising, or indeed for any other robotic device that uses such a process some examples at the bottom, pic is of one such application. Pick-and-place is not limited to PCB construction, in fact most SMT machines are robotic machines rather than robots. The picture of the German robotic arms used for palletising bread products is a good example of a large pick and place robotic system (top of the page on the right).

The article SMT placement equipment is limited to PCB construction. I am assuming you are talking about the first paragraph of the article, I have corrected the links for clarity. Chaosdruid (talk) 19:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

What Percentage of Total World Manufacturing is Done by Robots? Also, what is the Breakdown By Industry?

Such figures would be the best concrete description of where robot manufacturing stands in relation to the human workforce. The rate of growth at a net level, and in key industries would also be very relevant figures for the article. 65.102.241.122 (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC)