Talk:Valentine's Day

Apparent error in ages in citation 23.

A treaty providing for a marriage was signed on May 2, 1381.[23] (When they were married eight months later, he was 13 or 14, and she was 14.)

According to the article on Richard II, he was born on Jan 6, 1367, which would make him 15 on Jan 20, 1382. Likewise, According to the article on Anne of Bohemia, she was born in May of 1366, which would make her also 15 in Jan 1382

Ernies35 (talk) 02:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Interestingly May 2 is another Valentine's day if anyone can find anything on it or Valentine's day #3. 86.44.71.5 (talk) 12:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Attested traditions == is a heading, is not in common usage, and needs explanation or (better) reword

"Attested traditions" is clearly not in common usage. It has, on 2010 Feb 14, only 2,260 Google hits, many linking back to this article.

The term should be replaced with one having meaning to the general reader, or a hyperlink to a Wikipedia article, although: Does a term with only 2,260 hits actually deserve a Wikipedia article?

A quick glance at the meager Google hits suggests "Attested traditions" means religious folklore, as opposed to, e.g., canonical religious writings or history recorded by eyewitnesses. "Attested traditions" can apparently include Islamic, Hindu, Christian, and other sources. Non-canonical writing seems to be implied by the term. c

Edit Request:

The line "There is no evidence on any link between the modern romantic connotations of modern Saint Valentine's Day and the rites of the ancient Roman festival, despite many claims by many authors." That claim seems non-neutral and is contradicted by the article itself which claims that Lupercalia was abolished by the same Pope that started Valentine's Day in the same year and both holidays fall on the same day. These facts alone establish a link. --Peter Wisner (talk) 13:28, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Lupercalia was on February 15.[1] Jacques-Paul Migne suggested that Gelasius substituted Candlemas for Lupercalia. The above sounds like someone has been confused by this theory and mixed it up with Valentine's Day. In the Catholic church, every day of the year is saint somebody-or-other's day. Before Chaucer, Saint Valentine's day was just another Saint's Day, a way for the innumerate to say "February 14" (or May 2). There was no holiday or connection to romance. Kauffner (talk) 14:26, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

The point Peter Wisner makes is still accurate nevertheless. The statement is non-neutral and thus does not conform to Wikipedia standards in the case where definitive fact for *either* side cannot be proven. Some authors make the case for, some against. Some historians (modern or otherwise) can surmise and draw conclusions, but the true state of mind/decisions of people involved cannot truly be known by anyone but the original person/people, anything less is a "best guess". The fact is, the quoted statement uses as proof one article of support but omits other articles that are against his personal opinion. Wikipedia cannot make a factual statement in an area of opinion nor where there is reasonable evidence for both sides in a situation. Wikipedia is supposed to be a storehouse of knowledge and not to be used as propaganda. Both sides and both possibilities must be explained, or at least mentioned FAIRLY and equally if it is to be without bias. (On a side note, stating that the two have no connection just because they are a full day apart is ludicrous reasoning, but then here again, my personal opinion doesn't really matter.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkwolfe 73 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Greet Card Association reference

In the article it is stated that 'The U.S. Greeting Card Association estimates that approximately one billion valentines are sent each year worldwide, making the day the second largest card-sending holiday of the year, behind Christmas.' I've checked their press release [2] and it states that 'When children’s classroom-exchange valentines are included, the Greeting Card Association estimates that approximately 1 billion valentines will be opened in the U.S. in 2010.' So it's not a worldwide figure. Havethecraic (talk) 09:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Havethecraic

I have updated it a bit. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:23, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 74.14.144.139, 31 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} The poem should say...

Je suis deja d'amour tanné Ma tres douce Valentinée…

—Charles d'Orléans, Rondeau VI, lines 1–2 [26]

74.14.144.139 (talk) 21:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: The source does se desja not deja. Although it's from WikiSource so I'm not sure how reliable it is. I can't find anything else though... If you can find a reliable source that supports your version, supply it on this talk page. Thanks. -Atmoz (talk) 22:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

A 1842 copy says "desja" (Les poésies du duc Charles d'Orléans, Charles (d'Orléans), Aimé Louis Champollion-Figeac, publisher J. Belin-Leprieur et C. de Batines, 1842).

Looks like "desja" is a medieval form of "deja". --Enric Naval (talk) 12:28, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Indonasia

Celebration during Valentine's day has been banned for all Muslims by the Islamic authorities in Malaysia. It is viewed as a Christian tradition and therefore Muslims are not allowed to participate in this perceived attempt to deceive Muslims. The Federal Islamic Development Department (Jakim) is to hold an anti-Valentine campaign to remind Muslims of the dangers of celebrating Valentine. Social ills, for example childbirths out of wedlock, has been partially attributed to Valentine's Day celebrations.

In 2011, Valentine's Day precedes the celebration of Maulidur Rasul, commemorating the birth of Prophet Muhammad,which falls on the following day, thus injecting more urgency in keeping the celebrations on Valentine's Day to the minimum in this predominantly Muslim country.

Other races of non-Muslim faith in the country are not prevented from celebrating Valentine's Day. The Malay race in Malaysia, whom are the predominant race, are Muslims by law.

There are arguments that Valentine's Day is not a Christian celebration contrary to popular belief.

Ceang (talk) 09:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Mistake : Othon III de Grandson

This poet fut the first one in the 14th century to write Valentines in French. Charles d'Orléans loved them a lot and introduced them later into the French court. so that all about valentines day!!! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.74.45 (talk) 17:33, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I made a note about Grandson and about other authors contemporary to Chaucer. It is most probable that Chaucer was the first one, and the others were influenced by him, but we can't tell for sure. --Enric Naval (talk) 04:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

no

Dates of birds mating in southern England (Chaucer's country)

Chaucer's poem refers to 'choosing a mate' and the subsequent comment suggests that May 2 is a more likely date than Feb 14th for this to occur. This suggestion is in conflict with ornithological sources, which indicate that most common birds in England except some summer migrants will have laid eggs by May 2nd. Many could have eggs by the first week of March and some as early as February or even January (e.g. Raven, Blackbird, Tawny owl, Rock dove). When you consider that egg-laying is preceded by nest building, I contend that Feb 14th is a more likely date than May 2nd for Chaucer's intended reference. This is supported by simple observations of current bird behaviour in the English midlands, where a pair of robins is clearly established and bluetits were displaying to each other this weekend (Feb 12th 2011).

I suggest changing this to the effect that some have suggested that Feb 14th is a little early for all british birds to have selected a mate and that May 2nd is another possible contender.

Tumhari maaaaki chut sab chutiyagiri hai — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.106.71.228 (talk) 11:16, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Orthithological source: Bruce Campbell and James Ferguson-Lees, "Birds' nests", Constable & Company Ltd 1072 ISBN 0 09 458350 1 KiaView (talk) 00:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Chaucer probably talked about the mating of singing birds. Cuckoo and Nightingale. During winter Cuckoos hibernate, and Nightingales migrate away. See, for example, page 130 in [3]. It has long discussions of how birds mating habits were perceived at Chaucer's time. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Valentines' Day

Considering that there were multiple Saint Valentines surely this is the correct apostrophe use for the name of the day and for the title of the article. Is this not common sense? (Considering that most people don't use apostrophes correctly I think this will be very hard to back up.) 78.86.61.94 (talk) 02:11, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Per WP:COMMONNAME, we shouldn't invent our own spelling, we should use the spelling that appears in English-language reliable sources. There are cases where some sources use one spelling and other sources use a different spelling; in those cases you have to judge the relative weight of each group of sources. However, looking at a cursory search in google books, all English sources use the singular spelling.. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Hulu Day? Is that Vandalism? Should it not say Saint Valentines Day? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.158.118.178 (talk) 09:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

My birthday is Valentines Day. The end. Valentinesday1986 (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Here is the correct story of St. Valentine:

The Holy Martyr Saint Valentine (February 14, 270)

The servant of God Valentine was born into a highly educated family, and as a youth he received an excellent education. Then, the Emperor Claudius II commanded that everyone worship the idols of Rome. He also made it illegal for anyone to be a Christian, or even to be friends with a Christian. Valentine was a devout Christian and he refused to offer sacrifices to the pagan idols. Together with many other Christians, he was arrested and imprisoned. Saint Valentine was in prison for a long time, and he became friendly with one of the officers of the guard. The officer’s daughter, Julia, had been born blind, and though she was very bright, with a fine, quick mind, she had difficulty learning. The officer was impressed with Saint Valentine’s excellent education, and also by the clarity of his speech. He arranged to have Julia take lessons with the young prisoner. Saint Valentine taught her history, mathematics, and the sciences. He also taught her about our Savior, Jesus Christ. Julia began to see the world through Valentine’s eyes. She trusted his wisdom and found comfort in his quiet strength. Valentine taught Julia to pray. One day, the maiden asked him, “Valentine, does God really hear our prayers?” “Yes, my dear one. God hears each and every one of them.” “Do you know what I pray for every day?” she continued. “I pray that I might see. I want so very much to see everything you have told me about.” “God does what is best for us if we will only believe in Him,” Valentine said. “I do believe in Him,” Julia cried. “Let us pray together very hard that God will give me my sight.” The two of them prayed together for a long time. Suddenly, there was a bright flash of light that filled the cell. Julia opened her eyes and looked up. “I can see, Valentine, I can see!” “Glory to God,” Valentine exclaimed. They began to pray and thank God. As the Christians in the prison began being taken for trial, it became difficult and then impossible, for Valentine and Julia to see each other. They began to write to one another for they had fallen in love. They shared their love through their letters. Saint Valentine was brought before the imperial judge. He boldly confessed Christ and was sentenced to death. On the eve of his martyrdom, he wrote a long letter to Julia, encouraging her to stay close to Christ and remain strong in the faith. He signed the letter, “From your Valentine.” Saint Valentine was martyred for being a Christian on February 14, A.D. 270. He was buried in an area where many Christian martyrs were laid to rest. Julia planted a pink flowering almond tree on his grave. Saint Valentine became a symbol of deep, abiding friendship and love, perhaps because of the beautiful letters he wrote to Julia which he always signed, “From your Valentine.” It is sad that people often forget to celebrate his memory as a holy martyr who have his life in witness for our Savior, Jesus Christ. Of course, the greatest gift of love he gave Julia was a knowledge of the Gospel and of Jesus Christ. Through his holy prayers, may we also remember that there is no greater gift we can offer to those whom we love than the Gospel of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.33.184 (talk) 15:47, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

There is no source for this story, so it is not suitable for Wikipedia.  Andreas  ^(T) 03:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Japanese version

The part about Japan claims that the women-only part originated with a typo. Interesting explanation, but the source was an article that no longer exists. I tried to trace it down, but the organization seems to have dropped that article, even though they still exist at a new URL. Therefore I'm suspicious this was some sort of hoax. Shanen (talk) 12:44, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 February 2012

Also known as "Single Awareness Day" Kgoogs28 (talk) 15:47, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Keith D (talk) 18:34, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Valentinsagen

Valentinsdagen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.1.234 (talk) 08:28, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Iran contradiction

I'm not too familiar with editing on the talk page, but I had to point out that towards the end of the article, there is a really interesting statement about Iran and the relation with the local festival, and then a couple of paragraphs later, there is a paragraph that states that Iran has banned everything to do with Valentines. There are two sources cited, but the links are both dead, and I can find no other reference to this. If untrue, this paragraph could easily be anti-Iranian propaganda. If there are no appropriate refs that can be found, may I please delete the paragraph? 194.153.106.254 (talk) 12:42, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

India

I think there should be more information about the celbrtion df valentine day in modern india more than the traditional india. & also about how it is celebrated in sculs and collages of India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.203.59.223 (talk) 13:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

"Hindu" needs to replaced with "citizens"

"but the protesters themselves are middle-class Hindu men " should be changed to "but the protesters themselves are middle-class citizens ".

Often the protesters aren't "Hindus". Living in India and being a Hindu, I can vouch for this. Also it's quite a bit offensive to someone like me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VickyBong (talk • contribs) 13:26, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

The Parlement of Foules

The quotation from Chaucer's Parlement of Foules has no citation; the quote is from lines 309-10 of the poem. I think these ought to be listed so that people can refer to the poem if they need to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skaspid (talk • contribs) 15:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

South Korea and Black Day

Under the "East Asia" headline, and also correlating to the "Jajangmyeon" page, the more correct spelling is 짜장면, not 자장면. While the Romanization may stay the same, again the more correct spelling is jjajangmyeon.

This is such a minor detail, so not urgent. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tohta6 (talk • contribs) 16:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Italy

Why didn't add something about Italian San Valentino? Today the couples here exchange gifts, usually flowers(like red roses), fine jewelry or between younger lovers some chocolate(cioccolatini) like the famous "baci perugina", you can find them in every time of the year but on San Valentino they're selled with special boxes just for this occasion. Lovers also spent the night going to eat at some restaurant together, because they offer a special San Valentino Menu also in the most expensive ones. We don't have the use to exchange valentine cards but only if they accompanied a gift. And the gift are usually exchanged between lovers and not with friends, but if you like someone and she/he doesn't know you yet you can send it like an anonymous "valentino". "Do you want to be my valentine?" I hope someone can add some of this things considered interesting enough, also because San Valentino was Italian. Thanks and "Buon San Valentino a tutti" but as you can see if I'm writing at this hour at home I'm nobody valentina for now... Ciao! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.0.113.237 (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Some history of St Valentines Day

14th February date of death of one of several St Valentines who are remembered by Catholic Christians on this day. One of them lived in Africa and was a martyr decapitated in 270AD. Nothing else is known of him. At some time, maybe the Middle Ages, it was claimed that on the day of his death the birds began to mate. The Tridentine Calendar (Pope Pious V, 1586) lists only one St Valentine's Day, 14 Feb. There could have been several different ones for the different saints before then. (ref Wikipedia and Catholic Encyclopedia online http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia)

Agape love-feast was introduced into Christianity pretty early, and is mentioned in New Testament letters of Paul. It was supposed to be a feast of “spiritual love”, akin to eucharist. However, within a century or so it fell into disrepute and was eventually banned by the Church in Rome, as some Christian groups were giving it a more earthly interpretation and included elements such as drunkenness, fornication and luxurious meals.

By the Middle Ages (11th century) there were Valentine Clubs in southern France. Their activities were satanic. The Christian Church opposed these heretical customs and executed anyone they found exercising them. The valentine ceremonies bore some resemblence to rites that were practised by some cults of Hindus in India, indulging in the “Five Forbidden Things”. For many centuries there has been a flow of customs and information between the West (Europe) and the East (Persia, India). The satanic practices may have originated with other Gnostic features/customs, maybe some sort of spiritual marriage between Valentinian Gnostics of 2nd to 4th century Alexandra (Valentinus the founder fl. 137-166AD). However, these European events were orgiastic, that is relating to the Satanic path of Christianity, and a heresy, rather than monastic religious form.(ref- The Masks of God:Creative Mythology, Joseph Campbell, Penguin 1968). An example of people who celebrated these feasts in February were the troubadours who roamed in southeastern Europe from 11th to 13th centuries. (The Troubadours, John Rutherford, 1861- available online). AuntFred (talk) 06:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Claim in Introductory Paragraph about 15th-c. Greeting cards

The source to which footnote 3 refers is a) not very reputable (howstuffworks.com? Comeon!) and b) it states that it "legend has it" that one (1) Valentine's card was sent... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.230.71 (talk) 08:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Focus of article

I think there is too much focus on the "religious" aspect of the holiday, especially in the opening. Valentine's has been a purely romantic holiday for a such long time that I suspect few readers are aware that there even is a religious aspect. The claim that Pope Gelasuis cannonized Valentine is the sort of nonsense you might find in a children's book on this topic. Galasius was the pope who banned Lupercalia. As the "Attested traditions" section explains, there is no reason to connect this to Valentine. Kauffner (talk) 11:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)