Talk:Natural History (Pliny)

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Naturalis Historia?

Ah yes, Naturalis Historia to be sure. Luckily for us simple folks, Pliny's Natural History still redirects here. The illustrated title page gives a title of Naturalis Historiǣ. Perhaps accuracy is not the main thing. --Wetman 23:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The title on that particular title page is in the genitive case: it means "The first volume of the Natural History of C. Plinius Secundus". So there's no inaccuracy. However, the Wikipedia rule is to choose the form most commonly used by simple (and other) folks in English, isn't it? "Natural History", therefore. Andrew Dalby 21:09, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Corn in Europe in 77A.D.?

How can Pliny speak of "worms and beetles fall off the ears of corn" when the article on Maize specifically states that "After European contact with the Americas in the late 15th and early 16th centuries, explorers and traders carried maize back to Europe and introduced it to other countries"? How can he speak of a crop that in his specific place and time didn't exist? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.232.77 (talk) 15:38, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Naturalis Historia → Natural History (Pliny) – Natural History is the most common title for this work in English: see [1] and [2]. Natural History (Pliny) currently redirects to Naturalis Historia, the result of a recent page move. --Akhilleus (talk) 22:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Support. As I said above, Wikipedia prefers the name most commonly used in English. Andrew Dalby 01:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add any additional comments --Akhilleus (talk) 22:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia

Wikipedia: A "work that is full of insufficient and superfluous allegations, and more varied as nature herself."

Comment on the art section from Melvyn Bragg's In Our Time (BBC Radio 4)

Their show on The Artist (TX 28th March 2002 [3]) says that Pliny's description of historical artists is quite at odds to how they were viewed at the time. Visual artists (sculptors, painters) were held in low regard, little more than manual labourers. The programme says that Pliny spoke about them in far more elevated terms. I am not familiar with this work, but perhaps someone who is may feel that this is worth mentioning? --bodnotbod 18:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Roman technology

I have added a new section on technology because Pliny is one of our best source for such information, but much more could be added. There ought to be cross-refs to other authors especially Vitruvius, Varro and even Tacitus. Peterlewis (talk) 07:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have started to expand the "highlights" section if only because there is a wealth of detail in Pliny to mention, and can be well illustrated from other articles. It also gives the opportunity to produce cross-refs to those other articles. Peterlewis (talk) 19:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Line item notes please

This article is looking mighty fine I think and I acknowledge the worth of the most recent contributions. Wikipedia though insists on line-item notes. Specifically the quotes need statements of where in Pliny you got it and the references in parentheses ought to be in notes. The major ideas need a page number from those books cited. Ideally one should use the "cite book" template and others like it. If you don't know how to do this yet look at the code for any article with auto-generated notes; that is, almost any article. These notes are dog-work no doubt but someone has to do it. I refrain from marring such a nice article with templates so instead I'm using the discussion to suggest it ought to be done. I got other things I'm doing.Dave (talk) 06:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Either ambiguous or non-neutral language

I'm not sure what to think of the following excerpts from the article:

"He is especially interested in not just describing the occurrence of plants, animals and insects, but also their exploitation (or abuse) by man, especially Romans." ("Highlights" heading)

"Silver comes next in Pliny's pantheon of greed." ("Metallurgy" section)

I'm not an expert, so I can't tell if Pliny is deliberately disparaging Roman culture or if the language used to describe his text is just non-neutral. It doesn't help that the note on his writing style is deliriously opaque:

"His style betrays the influence of Seneca. It aims less at clearness and vividness than at epigrammatic point. It abounds not only in antitheses, but also in questions and exclamations, tropes and metaphors, and other mannerisms of the Silver Age. The rhythmical and artistic form of the sentence is sacrificed to a passion for emphasis that delights in deferring the point to the close of the period. The structure of the sentence is also apt to be loose and straggling. There is an excessive use of the ablative absolute, and ablative phrases are often appended in a kind of vague "apposition" to express the author's own opinion of an immediately previous statement, e.g.,[9]

dixit (Apelles) … uno se praestare, quod manum de tabula sciret tollere, memorabili praecepto nocere saepe nimiam diligentiam."

KHAAAAAAAAAAN (talk) 22:46, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Who Wrote This? Reads Like A Dissertation

As a personal essay I can find little fault in this article. But it's far too personal a piece to survive unchallanged. Some notable examples of fluff include: in a phrase that deserves to be proverbial.. and We are fortunate to have a description of his methods....

The following section on Style I find so incredible I have quoted it whole and verbatim:

His style betrays the influence of Seneca. It aims less at clearness and vividness than at epigrammatic point. It abounds not only in antitheses, but also in questions and exclamations, tropes and metaphors, and other mannerisms of the Silver Age. The rhythmical and artistic form of the sentence is sacrificed to a passion for emphasis that delights in deferring the point to the close of the period. The structure of the sentence is also apt to be loose and straggling. There is an excessive use of the ablative absolute, and ablative phrases are often appended in a kind of vague "apposition" to express the author's own opinion of an immediately previous statement..

Please! Blitterbug (talk) 12:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rediscovery of Laocoon

What does this extended discussion really have to do with Pliny's encyclopedia other than it may have been mentioned in it? The discussion really ventures way beyond any connection to Pliny's involvement —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.77.75 (talk) 02:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]