Talk:Brood parasitism

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Question about brood parasitic birds

How come the host doesn't notice that one of the chicks is of a different species, or at least that some of the other chicks are missing? Don't birds have the ability to tell? Does the parasite's parent specifically choose hosts that can't tell?

Eje211 00:19, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Basically, yeah - birds don't have the ability to tell. They'll feed the one with the widest-open mouth first, then (once that one is full) the next-widest-open, and so on until the parent runs out of food. Brood-parasite babies tend to be larger, so their mouths are larger also. Bird parents have small brains that just recognize a few particular traits, and those are the traits that the brood-parasite babies overexpress.

The interesting thing about brood-parasites, incidentally, is that they can't afford to be too successful, otherwise they'll wipe out their caretaker species.DS 14:15, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I remember reading a study (http://www.pnas.org/content/104/11/4479.full) that found some birds can tell the difference, but that ejecting the parasite chick often resulted in retaliation by the parasite's parents (who are presumably still hanging around the same area). To keep things in perspective, the birds do have to be able to tell their species from others in order to breed successfully. --Pyrochem (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

housecat?

I think it counts.

The housecat has evolved to have a baby-like cry instead of the more typical hiss or roar of a wild cat. (like a bobcat for example) The housecat is also sized like a baby.

People care for housecats, often to the exclusion of having their own kids. The housecat satisfies a maternal longing.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.110.145.57 (talk • contribs) 20:52, August 11, 2006

Housecats may have been bred for size and (relative) tameness, that makes them pets, not brood parasites. jimfbleak 05:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But still, during the time when cats were being domesticated the cats which were smaller and more tame were more likely to reproduce. Why are domestication and evolution by natural selection mutually exclusive? I think housecats count. Nightpotato (talk) 23:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Female cats still raise their kittens. They do not abandon their young for humans to raise believing them to be our own. Housecats may be considered parasites on humans if you want to, but they are not brood parasites. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:47, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are two ways to look at this then. The adult housecat isn't merely leaving the young to be cared for by humans. The adult housecat itself mimics a human baby. It's good enough to substitute for a human baby in terms of maternal urges, even though the human is not intellectually fooled. So, is brood-for-brood substitution the only thing that counts or does adult-for-brood substitution count? IMHO it counts. 24.170.165.214 (talk) 05:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, brood for brood is the only thing that counts in brood parasitism. Moreover, human-cat realtionships are arguably mutualistic, not parasitic. Both benefit. Sabine's Sunbird talk 05:52, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cuckoo wasp

I put in a brief mention of the cuckoo wasp - an amazing and beautiful critter I had the pleasure of watching last year. They are metallic blue-green. I know they occur in Australia, not sure about elsewhere in the world. Would be worth finding more info on them for the article. Gemfyre 06:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those that kill the host eggs?

Why are brood parasites raised when they kill host eggs/hatchlings, such as in honeyguides? The Jade Knight 09:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They trick their hosts into accepting them. Basically the host thinks" mouth in nest = feed it" They don't look too closely. Although it doesn't always work, some hosts realise they are being tricked and don't raise the chick. Sabine's Sunbird talk 09:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And those that don't trick the host don't leave any offspring, so you can imagine how a mutation in the host that allowed them to detect offspring from imposter would quickly be met by a counteradaptation. Richard001 07:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gallery

I'm interested in making a Commons gallery/category for this subject, though the only image specifically of a brood parasitism and not just one of the species involved I know of is the Cuckoo one here, and it's not even over there yet. Does anyone know of any others available? Would it be any use just to use the parasite species themselves until something suitable comes along? Richard001 08:02, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Insect cases

Should this be expanded upon more here, or somewhere else? The article suggests they are normally treated as kleptoparasites, so I'm not sure how much detail this section should have. Richard001 23:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Host nestlings will often starve to death

Article currently reads: "In cases where the host nestlings are significantly smaller than the parasite nestling, the hosts will often starve to death."

Shouldn't this actually read "... the host nestlings will often starve to death." ?

I'll leave this to someone more familiar with the topic. Karl gregory jones (talk) 22:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds fine. I'll change it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 00:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thx Sunbird, good work. Karl gregory jones (talk) 03:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cuckoldry?

Using the term "cuckoldry" in the article before saying some cuckoos are (perhaps the most well known) brood parasites is putting the cart before the horse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.157.214.59 (talk) 20:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction

The article states "In many monogamous bird species, there are extra-pair matings resulting in males outside the pair bond siring offspring and used by males to escape from the parental investment in raising their offspring." How can you have an extra-pair mating in a monogamous species?129.139.1.68 (talk) 13:00, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A monogamous breeding system is one where single pairs raise young, as opposed to polygamous systems. Just because there is cheating going on does not mean that the system being cheated isn't monoamy. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In Dinosaurs

There is fossil evidence that some dinosaurs may have been brood parasites, such as the troodontid Byronosaurus for instance. A pair of hatchling Byronosaurus were found in a nest of eggs belonging to the oviraptorid Citipati, and there is a hypothesis that Byronosaurus were brood parasites, laying their eggs in the nests of oviraptorids and perhaps other dinosaurs' nests as well. Should this have mention in the article?