Talk:Sun tanning

Post-mortem tanning

Do only dead or alive cells tan, or both? - Omegatron 19:35, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

Apparently from the article, cells don't become tanned, melanocytes produce the pigment which makes skin look tan. Some produce the pigment only in response to the radiation, some don't need it to produce pigment. But I would suspect that the cells need to be alive to produce pigment.

I wonder how long the pigment remains before it fades - does it have a half life? I suppose that a dead black person would eventually fade and look albino, but would that happen before or after the skin decomposes? I'd guess that melatonocytes remain active for some time after general biologically recognized death, and if so, then a dead white person exposed to the sun might still tan for some time. Castlan 06:40, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Uh. I meant the dead skin cell layer on alive people, versus the deeper layers of alive cells. - Omegatron 14:07, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

"Melanocytes are cells located in the bottom layer of the skin's epidermis." Castlan 9 July 2005 00:45 (UTC)

Dangers of tanning

Is sunlight just as harmfull to your skin as artificial UV rays from a sun tanning bed?

It's slightly different. Sunlight at midday has more UV-B; UV-B causes cancer, but also triggers production of vitamin-D and melanin. UV-A is also present, but UV-A doesn't cause cancer as much, but messes up collagen in the skin far more, and doesn't stimulate melanin production so much; but if you have already built up a tan, UV-A triggers release of melanin so the tan appears, but causes less DNA damage. Most suntan lamps produce more UV-A than sunlight and less UV-B; so they probably age the skin more quickly, since that is a lot more to do with collagen damage, but cause less cases of cancer and they don't give such a good tan.WolfKeeper 23:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am curious whether or not it is actually safer to use a sun tanning bed rather than getting a tan from a natural source.

Probably safer, but the tan isn't quite as good, and the skin aging is probably worse. But it will depend on the tanning bed.WolfKeeper 23:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, is there a threshold of UV exposure, such as staying out longer than X hours in the sun? Or something along those lines?

The state of the art isn't likely near where one could claim that Radiation from a UV tube is healthier than Solar light at sea level, but a responsible Tan Salon should at least be able to handle the necessary precaution in order to avoid excessive exposure. The Sun's timer is preset a little too long for most non-third world populations to rely on. The Sun would probably be healthier, if you dilligently kept track of your levels of exposure, and took into account cloud cover and other atmospheric fluxuations. Other than just natural Sunlight, I could rationalize tanning bed use to set base in preparation for a holiday spent closer to the equator.

There would be no hard and fast thresholds. Basically, the minimum amount possible to get enough natural Vitamin D production and heal certain skin conditions is what I would recommend, because every moment the UV rays penetrate your skin is another bit of subdermal tissue degradation, and most of that stuff, like collagen, doesn't really regenerate much. Now if it raises your mood and increases your endorphines, then it's definitely worth it - but take it slowly, and let your natural defenses enough time to compensate (pigment). And as you are almost definitely going to get more Sunlight than you bargained for, use that Sunscreen and non-animal based moisturizer. Unless you are a corpse, then try a formaldehyde cocktail. Castlan 06:40, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

ability to tan

I came to this article hoping it would have some information on people's ability to tan; I have noticed some light-skinned people that tan fine, whereas others only turn red and get sunburn if they're in the sun too long.

Melanocytes are present in different concentrations in different people, and have different levels of activity. Even in the same individual, different concentrations and activities can be observed. Swarthy people have melanocytes that don't need UV exposure to produce melatonin, your light-skinned people that tan fine have significant melanocytes that are inactive, your others don't have significant amounts of melanocytes. I believe Michael Jackson has a skin condition that negatively affects these cells, and that freckles are just clusters of melanocytes. Note that once your skin is exposed enough to burn, it still takes some time (an hour or so?) to turn red. So even after you have covered up, a sunburn may still manifest. Castlan 9 July 2005 00:45 (UTC)

Do other animals besides humans tan? I've never heard of such a thing, but I don't see why not, really. Especially relatively hairless animals like elephants.

Blatant advertising for fake tan product removed.

Hope nobody objects.

Effects of Sunscreen on tanning

Does the application of Sunscreen slow the process of tanning?

I've always wondered this, and no one ever can give me a straight answer. If you're tanning to get tan, and the tan comes from exposure to UV and the sunscreen blocks at least some of the UV, then I would assume the answer to be yes. However I've gotten some strange answers. Ranging from "well it's UVA that does the tanning and UVB that causes cancer, and that's the one sunscreen blocks, so no it wont slow it and it's beneficial" (which I believe is incorrect), to lots of other inventive guess-answers. But no one seems to know.

But if you're tanning to get tan, I wonder which would be worse... tanning with sunscreen, and taking longer to tan therefore more exposures... or tanning without it and therefore tanning quicker and needing shorter (albeit higher intensity) exposures. Or does it even matter? I mean maybe in order to get tan you have to get a certain amount of radiation for a certain amount of tan... in which case you'd need to be exposed to the same amount of UV either way you look at it? But maybe it's the way in which you get that exposure (intensity, duration, etc) that makes a diff?? I have no idea. But I really wish someone would thuroughly explain this in the article and back it up with good sources. - Anon user, 1/30/2006

This Article Contradicts Itself

"However, having a tan is visible proof that your skin is being damaged and this could have a long term effect on your health, e.g: skin cancer (which is now an epidemic in the United States), or signs of ageing such as early wrinkling, brown age spots, blotchiness or sagging, older skin which looks older than it actually is."

Asserting that tanning is unhealthy.

"Getting good sun exposure and a tan is, regardless of fashion, often beneficial and healthy to a person as long as it is done in a gradual and safe fashion with the use of protective sunscreen and monitored exposure."

Asserting that tanning is healthy.

These points seem to contradict each other. Lantoka 11:36, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In response:

Actually, it really doesn't contradict itself. It says that it may be healthy as long as it is done in a gradual and safe fashion, with protective sunscreen. The first statement, where it says it is unhealthy, is what happens when one is overexposed, has unmonitored exposure, and does not use sunscreen.

69.86.137.28 02:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)Angelo[reply]

There is no scientific support for the idea that suntanning is healthy, other than as a healthy individual's response to skin damage from overexposure to UV. I have re-written this article. It could still use more information about the relative tanning characteristics of different skin types and shades, for starters. Wyss 17:43, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moslem women in Australia (generally noted for high levels of skin cancer) are now getting Ricketts due to lack of exposure to sunlight. There is a SMALL need for exposure to the sun. But there is no need to be exposed to the sun to the point of getting a tan. A tan is a defense mechanism against over-exposure.Garrie 05:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some serious questions this article does not address

One thing I've always been a little perplexed by is this: if you're skin tans in response to exposure to UV radiation, and you're told to wear sunscreen/sunblock (which blocks or screens such radiation) then isn't this kind of a catch 22?? Does wearing Sun Screen cause a person to take longer exposure time or more levels of UV in order to tan since the tan is linked to amount of exposure (more UV = more tan) and since sun block actually limits this. Thus if you're sunning yourself in order to Tan isnt it counter productive to use sun block or sun screen??

Secondly there is no mention in this article about the effect of getting enough betacaratine on your body's abillity to tan. Also excersize promotes rapider tanner. There are also tan extenders that claim to help extend a person's tan, and personally I seem to find that using moisturizers help the tan keep longer. This article also does not make any mention of tanning techniques (such as the need to build up a base and then to have maintenence tanning), nor does it mention what is now widely accepted as scientific fact: that tanning can be mildly addictive (related to release of endorphines as well as behavorioral psychology).

There's also a difference, I believe, between sunblock, sunscreen, and suntan lotion. Sunblock = deflects radiation away from skin. Sunscreen = absorbs the radiation. Suntan lotion = little or no UV protection, with moisturizers and other components to promote tanning, reduce peeling, replace moisture and nutrients lost from sun exposure etc. This should be noted. - Anon User, 1/30/06

Images

What's with all the reverts? Anyone up for some discussion on it? —BorgHunter ^ubx (talk) 04:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Using one of Sven's images is ok with me. More than that will ultimately distract some readers. Moreover, too many distracting photos in a short article like this gives undue weight to the naked breasts and bottoms they show and some may consider that disruptive, which is a blockable vio. Another editor has already reverted them altogether. Wyss 04:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think that one or two images is enough for this article. WP:NOT censored, and they're all roughly equivalent in terms of licensing, so it's pretty much which one editors want more. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the tits picture. However, enough people have a problem with it to make me not want it there, as you can have pictures illustrating tanning without showing bare boobs, however silly the uproar over that is. It's not inappropriate in the slightest, but it is controversial, and less controversial alternatives exist. That's my opinion. —BorgHunter ^ubx (talk) 04:46, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Romania pic should be re-added, as she has a very dark tan and that would suit this article well. —BorgHunter ^ubx (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've re-added the very dark, horiz. tan pic as per above. Wyss 13:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think more than 2 pictures of girls suntanning is gratuitous. In fact, it might be better if we have one picture of a girl and one picture of a guy. Also, the picture with the nudity should probably be placed lower in the article than the non-nude picture as this is often the custom with controversial images in articles. How about we switch the positions of the two current pictures in the interest of being less provocative? Kaldari 19:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kaldari, good solution, though other contributors will, eventually, without a doubt object to the topless pic and I think s/he will have a point if other good pics are available with a complete bikini or bathing suit. Andries 20:35, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Truth be told, although this is only my opinion, I like the dramatic nature of the opening photo and since there is only one from the series included in the article, it's much less open to criticism for being gratuitous or disruptive. Wyss 20:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I share your opinion, but from experience with similar issues, I can assure you that others will not. If you want the picture to have the best chances of surviving for the long term, you'll want to minimize the shock value. Ways of doing this include keeping the picture at a reasonable size (the current size of 400px seems excessive), and moving the picture lower in the article. Just my 2 cents. Kaldari 21:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your 2 cents is likely a shilling but if you're ok with it for now, I say let's leave it until someone else stumbles across it and has something to say. Wyss 21:16, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see what's wrong with Image:Sunbathe breasts.jpg. I mean it's only a pair of tits for fuck sake, half the world has 'em. Gerard Foley 23:18, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I gotta say that it suprises me to see these two images on an article about tanning. I agree there should be 1 male 1 female. Neither image in itself is offensive but the topless one could just as easy be a small bikini.Garrie 04:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey in pic caption

The caption on the first picture says that many girls said ... in a survey. It would be a good thing to say something more about the survey - giving an idea of what group of tennage girls think this. JPD (talk) 12:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why tanning?

There is very little information as to why tanning is so popular. So some people feel healthier (How does being darker make you healthy?) and some like the appearance of being athletic (but with tanning parlors on every corner, does anybody use a tan as evdence of athleticism?). I suspect that for the vast majority it is a social issue. A fashion trend.

Some people take tanning too far. I've seen many people with tans much too dark to be natural. Not attractive at all. PrometheusX303 18:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The act of being darker isn't necessary healthy or not healthy, but it proves that your body is recieving large amounts of Vitamin D, which is vital for proper health. However excessive amounts of Vitamin D are lethal. Malamockq 21:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Still Unanswered

If you want to tan and you're putting on sunblock, isn't that counter-productive??

There is still no answer to a continuing paradox in my mind: tanning comes from UV radiation stimulating melanocytes to produce melanin and sunblock/sunscreen blocks UV radiation; so therefore isn't using Sun screen/block going to increase the amount of time it takes you to tan? So then, if your goal is to get a tan, isn't it illogical to use sunscreen in a tanning bed or when sun bathing?

One other question that needs addressing is which produces a better tan: long exposure to low levels of UV rays, or short exposure to high levels of UV rays? Also, which is more damaging to the skin: long, low-level exposure; or short, high-level exposure? This could greatly affect the logic of tanning strategies and safety. For example, if length of exposure is more damaging in comparison to intensity while short, intense exposure is beneficial to tanning, then it would actually make more sense to tan without sunscreen for shorter periods of time rather than to apply sunscreen and tan for a longer duration.

This is a bit like the issue of low fat foods... people eat low fat or "diet" products but then eat MORE OF THEM as a result of them being less filling and less satisfying.

These are questions I can't find the answers to anywhere.

Another big question is the effect of having a tan... if having a tan is a natural barrier against UV radiation, then shouldn't it be beneficial to reducing the effects of the harm from the sun? Therefore shouldn't tanning be beneficial, once it's developed? In such a case then it would make more sense to get tan and then maintain it indefinately, rather than let it fade and rebuild it (thus incurring more damage because in this case, if the facts were such, then GETTING the tan would be the key area where damage could be done to the skin, rather than maintaining it). So here control would be the main issue of concern; how the tan was achieved (slowly vs quickly). This, of course, depends on whether the majority of skin damage is being done during the initial phases of tanning as opposed to maintenence tanning (during which one is protected via melanin).

I'd really like to see these questions addressed and answered and added comprehensively into the article by someone who either really knows the answers or can find the information and properly cite it. Thelastemperor 20:32, 19 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sexist

i find it rather sexist that only women are shown sunbathing. how about a picture of a guy sunbathing? or a picture of a guy and a woman? Kingturtle 06:29, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I raised this issue a while back. It might be a good idea to try to find pictures of both genders, lest we imply that only women sunbathe. Kaldari 20:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i wanna sun tan now after reading this article!

"stimulates the production of Vitamin D, which promotes lower rates of disease, and ironically lower rates of skin and other types of cancer"

cool, i did not know that...so does that mean tanning isn't bad for you? (Oahc)