Talk:2012–13 UEFA Champions League

Macedonia/FYROM

About the association rankings table: May I ask if there is a wikipedia policy that supports the use of Macedonia over FYROM at "ALL" times? Because as far as UEFA and the EU are concerned there is no Football Federation of Macedonia, but there is in fact a Football Federation of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Similarly there is no country called Macedonia for the European Union, hence I find it is not appropriate for this article to list said country by that name. Since this may be a hot topic I won't change the article right away, but I want to hear others' thoughts on this. Klinthar 23:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Klinthar (talk • contribs)

unsourced assumption

The arrival of the announcement of the venue for the final saved to article from deletion, but the fact remains that the majority of the content is based on assumption that the tournament will be run in the same way as it has been in previous years, an assumption that UEFA has said nothing to justify. Suggest that the opening paragraph is the only secure sourced information. The table of co-efficients (but not the column about how many teams' participation that secures) is probably accurate, and I wouldn't argue too hard for removal of that, but it is a private calculation, and not a RS. It seems remiss of UEFA not to have let us know the format, when some qualifying events are already underway, and all will be soon, but that does not give us grounds to make unsupported assumptions. Kevin McE (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

done Kevin McE (talk) 16:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

In that case, please edit 2018 FIFA World Cup and 2022 FIFA World Cup articles, which states that Russia and Qatar have qualified as hosts, based purely on the unsoruced assumption that the "hosts will qualify automatically" rule will remain the same in these future World Cups as the regulations have not been published. Chanheigeorge (talk) 15:51, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

England note

I'm going to remove the note on Manchester United already having qualified. If they finish 4th and Chelsea finish below them but win the 2011–12 UEFA Champions League - a remote but still mathematically possible outcome - they will not qualify. Guest9999 (talk) 20:34, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Russia note

For details on why FC Zenit Saint Petersburg qualified already, see Talk:2011–12 Russian Premier League. Geregen2 (talk) 19:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 April 2012

If Chelsea wins the Title Holder spot but then qualifies 4th in domestic league competition (therefore going into the group stage and eliminating the 4th place England postion in the playoff round (non-champions) two teams are moved up from the third qualifying round (non-champions) to the playoff round (non-champions). On the surface this doesn't seem to make sense (using two teams to replace one eliminated position).

The reason is that if only one team were to move up from the third qualifying round (non-champions) to replace the vacated 4th England spot it would leave only 9 teams in the third qualifying round (non-champions). Since normally the winners of the third qualifying round (non-champions) - 5 winners from 10 - are drawn with the 5 teams entering at the playoff round (non-champions) an even number of teams must be maintained in the third qualifying round (non-champions) for the draw. However, since the third qualifying round (non-champions) is the first round where non-champions enter the competition, a team from an earlier qualification round cannot be moved up to maintain an even number of teams in the third qualifying round (non-champions). Instead two teams are moved up to the playoff round (non-champions) in order to maintain an even number of teams in the third qualifying round (non-champions). This results in 4 winners from 8 in the third qualifying round (non-champions) being drawn against 6 teams entering the competition at the playoff round (non-champions).

Mlangner (talk) 00:44, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, but none of this is sourced. Please provide reliable sources for your recommended changes. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Italian qualified teams

Milan and Juventus willwoosh end up in The first 2 positions of The serie a, therefore they are already qualified to the group stage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.51.236.184 (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

They are already listed there, they both listed since Sunday.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 17:46, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 April 2012

Porto are champions and benfica are qualified for the group stage

84.91.129.168 (talk) 12:05, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Porto are indeed Portuguese champions; this has already been added to the article. As for Benfica, they can still be caught by Sporting Braga; hence they have not been listed as qualified for a specific round. However, they have already qualified for the tournament, as you can see at the bottom of section 1.3. Therefore, there is no need to further edit the article at the moment. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 12:14, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

FC Bayern Munich

IMHO there is a certain Wednesday in November, where the FCB can't play a home game. --84.61.149.75 (talk) 20:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Question about seeding

Hi, I was wondering about the seedings for the qualification round. The article says that, for example, in the third qulification round the winner of the match involving Basel will be seeded; let's suppose that in the second round Basel plays against Ulisses from Armenia and looses. Would that mean that, depsite having one of the lowest coefficients of the participating teams Ulisses would be seeded due to the fact that they left out a team with a higher coefficient? or would the original coefficient be respected and the worst ranked teams would remains on the unseeded pots?--Pencho15 (talk) 00:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Your assumption is correct: "Unseeded teams in the 2nd qualifying round that qualify for the next round take effectively the coefficient of their opponent in the next round. The reason for this is that the draw for the 3rd qualifying round is made before the results of the 2nd qualifying round are known. " -Koppapa (talk) 10:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Rangers

Since Rangers no longer exist, should they be referred to in the past tense here? Unreal7 (talk) 22:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Whether they still exist or not, and in what form is trying to be established in other bits of Wikipedia. I don't know what precisely you mean by "no longer exist" as that is a little ambiguos. But if you are interested in being part of the discussion you can contribute at the Rangers F.C. or Newco Rangers talk page, or at Talk:WikiProject Football in the relevant threads. Thanks Adam4267 (talk) 23:10, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Paris Saint Germain

How is it possible for PSG to end in pot 4 for the group stage draw? As I understand it, that would only happen if all the 7 teams with a higher coefficent than them manage to qualify for the group stage. But that is not possible since 5 of the teams are competing in the non-champions path, where there are only four tickets to the group stage. Hence, it is mathematically impossible for Braga, Kyiv, Panathinaikos, Copenhagen and Spartak Moscow all to qualify, and therefore PSG are guaranteed a pot 3 seeding? Regards Maracana (talk) 07:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean with "there are only four tickets to the group stage"? That's not true. All five winners from play-off round will advance to the group stage. So, if Kyiv, Panathinaikos and Copenhagen all win their respective third round ties, then there is a chance of Braga, Kyiv, Panathinaikos, Copenhagen and Spartak Moscow to play in different play-off ties and therefore to qualify for the group stage.89.7.243.236 (talk) 13:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Location map

What about adding a location map of clubs participating in the group stage on this page or 2012–13 UEFA Champions League group stage? I have made one with groups A to D and one with groups E to H in my user sandbox. --Starkmania (talk) 11:31, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Template

Yesterday and this morning I started to create some Template for all the groups' standings and all the matches of this edition of CL. Someone on my talk said that it is used in the past and why start now, someone said that for him is ok to do 3 edits instead of 1 and the CL is a annual championship instead the Olympics are no. So I can't understand neither reason because why we can't improve Wikipedia with new tools? What is the problem to create this template every years? If you update this with one edit you can update something else with the other two edits? So there is someone that think the template will be useful?-- Stigni (talk) 17:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I have no problems with those templates as they allow to make just 1 edit instead of, like mentioned. You don't need to update every page then with a goal/result added, just do it once and it's ok. So, i have yet to see a valid reason against it... Kante4 (talk) 17:48, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Makes sense to me to use templates.Jowaninpensans (talk) 18:00, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

The templates for the group tables were really useful, so I think they should be kept. Not sure if any other templates were in use, but I don't think there should be; stick to the group tables. – PeeJay 19:48, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Then, why not? We are talking about those, who can be edited there and show up on the group stage and the two team articles without editing it on those 3 pages, too. Kante4 (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

The footballbox template shouldn't be used on club season articles, that's why. – PeeJay 20:52, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

But it is, or? Any why should it not be used? Kante4 (talk) 20:58, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Because it's ugly and provides more information than it needs to. We don't need to provide every single piece of info on every page, and the club season articles should be kept specifically for stats and info relating to the club. See 2012-13 Manchester United F.C. season. – PeeJay 13:54, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

You are right because it is the standard form for a club season but a it miss a lot of useful info like who is booked, the referee, penalty miss or the progression of the score. If for anyone is a problem I rebuilt the standings' template and we continue to discuss about the matches' template.--Stigni (talk) 15:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

The standings template should be back for sure. Maybe some other editors can express their opinions of the matches template? Kante4 (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't like the template linking to the season articles and not the club itself. -Koppapa (talk) 20:41, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I think that is not the AC Milan playing the 2012-13 CL but it is the 2012-13 AC Milan, so I would prefer to link the team season; it isn't the history of the club of play but Ambrosini &C. in 2012-13. So I think we would change all the link to the the AC Milan to 2012-13 AC Milan season except the table of the qualify team. But if you think I'm wrong I will change the link on the Template Stigni (talk) 21:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Think I'll weigh in my with opinion here. These templates are completely pointless. Yes they may save time updating the tables, but come December they will be obsolete. So, is there really any point in having them when they are not solving any issue and will not be used after December? NapHit (talk) 21:03, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Tie-breaking criteria

The tie-breaking criteria are applied consistently in a wrong fashion in the group phase tables. E.g. Donetsk should be ahead of Chelsea in group E. They have equal points in matches between each other (3), have the same goal difference in matches between each other (0), have shot the same number of goals in matches between each other (4), yet Donetsk has shot 2 goals at Chelsea while Chelsea has shot only 1 goal in Donetsk. This makes Donetsk the group leader. The total goal difference simply does not enter at this point. Similarly, Munich should be on first place in group F since they have beaten Valencia. Goal difference is irrelevant.