Talk:Fairuz

Untitled

Wasn't she a maronite, and not orthodox? Shajar 08:58, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If she was a maronite she wouldn't have sung so much about Arab unity and reclaiming Palestine.Yuber^(talk) 01:18, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Maronite-based Phalange forces stormed rahbani"s museum in Antilieas north of Beirut during the war and destroyed it completely. Rahbanis were left oriented in their thinking, what made them unpoppular on the Lebanese Front side. Still today, they "take care" about Voice of the people radio (Sawt al shaab), poppular lefist radio station in Lebanon.

Birth Place

Where was she born? "Jabal Al Arz" or Beirut? she comes from palestine

SHE WAS DEFINITELY BORN IN "JABAL AL ARZ", not beirut. For in her documentary (1998), they clearly say that her family moved from Jabal Al Arz to establish their home in Beirut (Zqaq el Blat / Basta) area.

But Jabal el Arz may refer to Jabal Lebnen (Mount Lebanon Governorate). I didn't find a village/city named JABAL AL ARZ on the map. the place of birth could be Dibbiyeh: a village in the Mount Lebanon Governorate. It is the village of her mother and where fairuz spend the summer holidays with her grandma. so this information should be verified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.88.48.253 (talk) 16:42, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Dear Wiki! Fairuz means in Arabic 'turquoise', but certainly not 'topaz' as you wrote

Dear Wiki! 'Fairuz' means in arabic 'turquoise', but certainly not 'topaz' as you wrote it...It's different...

- Fairuz admirer from Russia

cf. http://almashriq.hiof.no/music

Size of article

Dear editors, especially anonymous. I know Fairuz deserves a long and detailed article for so many reasons. Maybe the reverted edition got the reasons. However, that article needs too much work to be accepted. I share my opinion with Viajero because we cannot just fill wikipedia with unstructured edits. So please, whoever wants this article to be expanded, try to ameliorate the quality of what is not accepted here. Cheers -- Svest 23:27, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you, but by deleting all these paragraphs, you are removing a big part of informations that might be useful to editors who want to improve this article. I think there should be restored. CG 13:03, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

I strongly believe that we both are right. I hope the anonymous editors think the same way. What I suggest is that we would include part by part (say para by para), clean it up, interwiki it before including the next one. We cannot just insert 2000 plus words in bulk and in such a messy state. Nobody would read it and I believe nobody would fix it. Indeed, many parts there are violating copyright laws! -- Svest 19:16, September 9, 2005 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

Fairuz is originally Syriac Orthodox

Fairuz is originally Syriac Orthodox but she had to change her sect to Greek Orthodox so she can marry Assi Rahbani

A Historical Note Dear fellow fans, please do not forget to mention (or remember) those who took Fairuz and Al Rahbani's by the hand and into stardom. I mean here especially Sabri Elsharif. An artist, director, who reportedly used up all his influence in the media business to help Fairuz and the Arab voice cause. I myself still know little about him except for what I found in a single google search. I know that he initially hired her and directed most of her musicals and her 2 famous records on Palestine. He deserves a link by himself. 08:18, 29 September 2005 (UTC). HAE

If you are sure about that than it would be a good thing to add that info. You can provide a source or a reference here in this talk page to justify it. Cheers -- Svest 18:03, 29 September 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Try this link. [1] It will also lead you to other good links.Good luck. HAE 05:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

There are many reliable sources that say she is Maronite, Orthodox and Syriac. I think it would be best to stick with Christian because all of these reliable sources are claiming different things. Lebanese bebe (talk) 11:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I have just noticed that someone changed her religion to coptic orthodox! I changed it to Syriac-Maronite since her father was Syriac orthodox and her mother was a Maronite. I put a reliable source is also included. Ravi84m (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

New christmas edits

I appreciate the newly inserted edits by users 216.80.117.214 and 147.9.45.157. I hope those edits would set an example to users 82.198.29.11, Jabe88 and 81.220.32.223 who somehow pretended that we are censoring info here. Svest 00:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Either extremely detailed, or extremely shortened...

This article is a really problematic one. on the first hand, the earlier version is too short, very few informations were available.

on the other hand, the current version is too detailed, BUT still better than the other version.

what I suggest is to discuss what information to leave, and what information should be removed.

To people who say, this is far too detailed, i agree to a certain degree (some info could be removed), but you just can't put the tiny version back. SOME PEOPLE ARE SEARCHING FOR THE DETAILS (her life, works, documentaries...); for the devil is in the details. In the small version, there's nothing about her works... Why is it called an encyclopedia then ? The encyclopedia must have the full information about everything.

Please discuss the article here. and to all of you, don't put any version of the article without discussing and asking for the conscent of the other fans.

let's remove the chronology, or put it in a separate article

I agree, and the information available in the chronology, like awards given to her, should figure in an "awards" section...

There should be a section focusing on her career, distinct from her biography Unixer 12:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you think we should add a section for her Discography ?

I think a discography section is necessary. and also remove that kind of info from the biography section.Unixer 22:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

She was a maronite, where are you citing this Orthodox History?

She may have been born Orthodox, or maybe she converted to Orthodox, but Fairouz definetly has a major connection to the Maronite Faith. She sings all of our hymns. In fact, in the LBC (Lebanese Brodcasting Corporation) they show her atending and singing at Good Friday, Easter, and Christmas Masses.

Another thing, She wouldn't sing "Ya Oumallah" if she were any type of Orthodox, as most Orthodox people I know become very upset with the Maronite obsession with Mary.

The current facts show that Fairouz is a Maronite now, I'm not sure what she was before.

Just because her, the Rahbani's or others felt for Arab unity does not dismiss her as a Maronite. Not all Maronite's are sepratists, pro-Israel, or anti-Arab. Politics and religion are not so easily allignable, and it is that kind of stereotyping that caused the war in Lebanon in the first place.

NOT AT ALL. Fayrouz was born syriac orthodox, got married to Assi Rahbani, and converted to greek orthodoxy. She has produced many maronite hymns, that's correct. That was because the Rahbanis wanted to use Fayrouz's voice. But when she sings in the great firday, she always sings it in an orthodox church, and chants the orthodox liturgy hymns. I GO AND WATCH HER EVERY YEAR CHANTING. She's definitely orthodox. why don't you check her chronology and see where and what she has sang, and what the RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH has done with her new orthodox hymns (they added them to their repertoire, like al aodiya al oula and al aoudiya al tasi'a and la tanouhi) Fairuz Chronology. So don't modify the article please.

And please, before coming here and start a polemic issue, be sure of the information you're giving.

• • • Fayruz sang about MECCA people!!! Does that make her Muslim? NO!

HER FATHER CAME FROM MARDIN, TURKEY... he was a syriac orthodox

There is no reliable source that says her father is Turkish. Her father was Lebanese. Lebanese bebe (talk) 11:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

He wasn't turkish but Syriac Orthodox from a city that was then part of the Ottoman empire (just like Lebanon by the way).Ravi84m (talk) 18:38, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

ATTENTION PLEASE

TO the person adding the chronology information, put the info in this article Fairuz Chronology.

we have separated both articles to make Fairuz's biograpgy more readable and clearer.

Please don't change the whole article back as it was before. thanks a lot.

Discography

I have added a Discography section, and a hyperlink so that everyone can check her CDs and DVDs

Sources of her Orthodoxy?

Forgive me. I understand this was mentioned about two or three times before. I was just wondering if you can provide sources (books, articles, or websites) that say she was Syrian Orthodox and converted Greek Orthodox. A website search I did found that Wikipedia was the only one that says such information, while there are two other websites that say she "came from a Marionite family," such as this one:

http://www.lebanon.com/where/entertainment/fairuz.htm

I'm not questioning your information. I was just hoping you could cite where you get this information from.

Christ is risen!

God bless you.

Mina

• • Dear Mina, if you watched the lebanese channels lately, you could see that fayrouz chanted on the orthodox great friday (Friday the 21st of april not on maronite good friday the 14th of april). Every year she chants in orthodox churches, and her life documentary says so. This website has wrong info. Fayrouz's father was syriac originally form Mardine (Turkey). These people ran away from the turkish prosecution during World War I.

http://7iwarforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=777

Please read this article of Samir Atallah (journalist in Annahar newspaper and Friend of Fairuz and the Rahabanis) about Fairuz's 70 birthday. HOPE YOU READ ARABIC !

مرحبا, Grüeß Got, Hello and so on ...

I've just been looking for as many as possible translations of "Stille Nacht/Silent Night" as possible; and by this opportunity I discovered Fairuz. And I add: I am a Bavarian Roman Catholic, and nothing else. But just because that's how it is after all, I completely hate all those discussions about her faith. By the way: She does sing "Silent Night"!! Hallelujah! ... --Hellsepp (talk) 00:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Fairuz does NOT have palestinian origins

Fairuz doesn't have any palestinian origins !!!!!

anyone who adds this edit would be vandalising this article... her father is Lebanese from TURKISH origins, and her mother is pure lebanese... check Atallah's article above

Her father wasnt turkish he was a SYRIAC from a town that became a PART OF TURKEY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miss-simworld (talk • contribs) 22:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Most countries around the world?

The article states that Fairuz has performed in most countries around the world. Given that there are, what, 300+ countries, this would mean she has given a lot of concerts! So, os there any proof for this?

• correction there r 200+ countires in the world, and she has sang in at least 50 of them!

Contradiction

During the Lebanese War (1975-1990), Fairuz never left Lebanon but did not hold any concerts there because it pained her greatly to see the Lebanese suffering and dying at the hands of foreigners and their own. She would not sing for them, them who were killing each other and destroying Lebanon. However, during that time period, Fairuz held several very successful record-breaking concerts and tours in numerous countries around the world. Fairuz's ability to tour internationally without ever leaving Lebanon was considered quite remarkable by many of her contemporaries.

Unless I'm missing something, this shouldn't be considered remarkable---it should be considered impossible. Any idea what's trying to be said here? Tesseran 08:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Dear Tesseran, Fairuz indeed never left Lebanon to live abroad. She just left during a very limited time period to hold concerts and go back. so ur right, we should correct this!

Sources and POV

I've added templates indicating that the article as it stands lack sources and falls short of WP's neutral POV ideal. That there are no sources beyond the subject's homepage can, given the magnitude of her international career, doubtless be fixed. The POV issues are deeply woven into the text ("...angelic voice has enchanted millions...", "...her voice simply transcends the human hearing range...", indications of "historic" and "record breaking" performances without further citation, etc.), but much good work has gone into the text and it mostly needs a ruthless editor. Robertissimo 14:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Notre Dame de Paris issue

Fayrouz never held a mass in Notre Dame de Paris Cathedral. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.216.205.147 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Cleaned

The article was cleaned from the "advertisements". I guess we should remove the ad template, but leave the need for references and sources template.

Assyrian father or not?

This was claimed in the article earlier, and it makes a lot of sense if he was from Mardin. Why is it not in the article anymore? Funkynusayri 20:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello! He was Syriac Orthodox... the article exists on Annahar newspaper archive, the link of the forum is dead now... Unfortunately if we ever have to get the link, we have to pay to get the archive, so it's kind of difficult... only her mum was a maronite, and later she became greek orthodox after marrying Assi Jabe88

Sorry, but no source for this claim has ever been provided. And people keep deleting the references that say she is Arab, born into a Maronite Christian family. I'm not against mentioning her father's Syriac Christian backround too, if there is a reliable source for it. But I'm very tired of people deleting other reliably sourced info on her background. Tiamut^talk 10:50, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Because shes not an Arab shes Lebanese of Syriac/Assyrian descent. Her father was an Assyrian from Mardin and her mother a Maronite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.147.63 (talk) 21:30, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? FunkMonk (talk) 21:34, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes I did but they got deleted!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.228.221 (talk) 10:07, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Try to post it here. FunkMonk (talk) 10:40, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

here are a couple of sources here and here It's a very known fact in the middle east that her father came from Mardin and settled in Lebanon. She even sang many hymns in Syriac. Ravi84m (talk) 01:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Both of the sources you cited se Wikipedia as a source. Given that people have edit warred to include this information here previously its not surprising that its written in those versions of our article. We need a solid WP:RS for this as this is a WP:BLP. Sites that simply copy old versions of Wiki articles won't do. Tiamut^talk 17:14, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and singing in Syriac doesn't confirm anything, Maronites do that too. FunkMonk (talk) 17:43, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Just added sources from an article in Annahar written by Samir Atallah. The article seems very reliable since it was quoted in many occasions, so I see no reason against mention it as a source in Wikipedia as well. Ravi84m (talk) 20:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Not a reliable source at all, in my opinion. Its hosted on the website on a political action group. Mainstream English-language sources describe Fairouz as follows:

• "a Christian (Greek Orthodox)" who became "the symbol for a dignified Arab nationalism" (Popular Culture in the Arab World: arts, politics, and the media)
• Popular culture and nationalism in Lebanon: the Fairouz and Rahbani nation notes that the Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox church reportedly refused her reqest for a divorce from Assi in the 1970s. Obviously, she was a member of that church by then (no need for the verify tag in the introduction).
• World music: the rough guide. Africa, Europe and the Middle East, Volume 1 says she was born "in 1934 to a Christian Maronite family in Beirut."

I propose removing the information abot being born to a "Syriac Catholic" father as there is no reliable source for this assertion and even if true, Fairuz does not seem to self-identify this way. Tiamut^talk 18:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. FunkMonk (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

You can find tens of other website hosting the same article,[2][3][4]. I can't see how an article about her early years written by a family friend who happens to be one of the most distinguished journalists in Lebanon and published in the most widely circulated newspaper in that country can be regarded as dubious. On the other hand other sources merely give a fleeting mention of her born to a Maronite family, that certainly doesn't compare to Atalla's article.

I can't find a single source of her conversion to Greek orthodoxy, this source makes no mention of her being Greek Orthodox, her asking permission of divorce from the Patriarch of her husband's church doesn't necessarily make her one.--Rafy talk 22:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

I provided you a source directly above that says she is a "Christian (Greek Orthodox)" withot any qualification or equivocation. The other source about her asking permission from the Greek Orthodox Patriarch for a divorce indicates that she was married by the Greek Orthodox church. As you know, in Lebanon, you can only be married by religious institutions - there is no civil marriage.

While Samir Atallah may be a reliable source, the website hosting his article is not. The other links you provided are also not reliable sources (the first [5] is not the same article by Atallah - its an article about how people who speak Arabic are Arab and while it says Fairuz is Syriac-Aramaic, its a posting to a web forum by the "Administrator" of that forum). The second link won't open for me. And the third is a copy of Atallah's article posted to a web form (also not an RS). Tiamut^talk 08:33, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I think that there is enough proof made that such an article by Samir Atallah does exist, we could merely mentions the name of the article without an online link. Here is another article taken from Al Hayat, also mentioning her Syriac roots. It might be that she was brought up as a Maronite, but I can't find any source about her conversion, surely that would have angered a couple of Maronites back then. the last two sources contradict each other the one claims that she was a Maronite and the other one mentions her rising to fame in the 50 (before meeting the Rahbanis) as a Greek Orthodox, so which one should we believe?--Rafy talk 09:39, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm still wary about the Samir Atallah article since we don't have access to a copy published by a reliable source. The article published by Al Hayat on their website, however, meets our general RS requirements. Strangely though, it seems to have gotten her birth year wrong (1935 instead of 1934). It says her father was of the "Syriac religion" and from Mardin. I guess we could include this info in this article sourced to them. I still don't see its relevance, particularly given that most RS say she was raised Maronite or is now of the Greek Orthodox faith. What does her father's religious background have to do with her biography? It doesn't seem to be at all related to Fairuz's life and career. But I'm open to hearing more opinions on the subject and will remove the dubious tag for now and replace the citation with the article from al Hayat.

About the "Contradiction" in the source stating she is Greek Orthodox, I think you read it wrong. It says she came to prominence in the 1950s (i.e, 1950-1959). She married Assi Rahbani in 1955. So there is no contradiction. Tiamut^talk 19:01, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Since several articles have been published stating that here father was a Syriac from Mardin, then it is reliable that he was a Syriac. Kaldaya (talk) 18:10, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Most RS don't mention it. None at all in English and only two distinct Arabic newspaper articles do. Tiamut^talk 19:01, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Alright, but she sings in Arabic and she's from the Middle East, so it's not a surprise that the sources are in Arabic. And the source doesn't need to come from her. For instance Steve Jobs has never said he's Syrian, but we know it indirectly, through his sister and father and therefore it's written in Wikipedia. It should be the same case for Fairuz, and we know that Fairuz has commercial incentives to hide her true identity. Kaldaya (talk) 19:45, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Akhon, if she identifies as Lebanese then this should be reflected on the article. afaik she never claimed of being Assyrian, neither Arab on that matter. --Rafy talk 19:13, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

contested statement removed

• Fairuz has sold 80 million records around the world,{{Fact|date=December 2006}}
• Another huge success was the massive concert at the Las Vegas MGM Grand Arena (1999) which broke box-office sales records{{Fact|date=February 2007}}

Please don't restore this information without a citation.--BirgitteSB 18:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

shes not arab

Shes lebanese just put her as that also her father was ASSYRIAN/SYRIAC and her mother a maronite so if anything shes assyrian not arab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.108.43 (talk) 21:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Sources say she is an arab singer and her family was Maronite Christian before she converted to Greek orthodox Christianity. we go with the sources, not our unsourced preferences. Tiamut^talk 09

03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE NO ONE ADDS HIS PERSONAL OPINION

we all love fairuz, but when we add phrases such as a "a living legend" it just make fairuz look bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amman12 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Voice range and musical scale

Hey, apart from her roots, beliefs and origins (the usual Arab conflict) can someone please contribute with a piece of information on the voice range that is of Fairouz and the scales of music she adhered to during her career as well as the lyrical structures she was famous of singing? I think it will enrich the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miia (talk • contribs) 20:37, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion

Shouldn't she have a singer template?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by يزن أحمد (talk • contribs) 15:38, 12 September 2011 (UTC)