Talk:Knockout game

Invalid and prejudicial article

This is a factually invalid and prejudicial article that does not belong in the encyclopedia. The author cites two alleged cases of this "game" in 19 years. I would ask Wikipedia to avoid carrying articles that attribute behaviors to "teens" (or any other population group) unless the authors can document with valid references (not mere news articles) that they are widespread, common, and occur only among that demographic. Mike Males, YouthFacts.org

This appears to be an issue that is documented in the media. It should meet the notability requirements to be included in Wikipedia.

-There is a book documenting it [White Girl Bleed a Lot: The return of racial violence and how the media ignore it.]

and plenty of news articles.:

- ["Knockout King" from American Crime Prevention Institute]

- "Scattered reports of the game have come from around the country including Massachusetts, New Jersey and Chicago. In St. Louis, the game has become almost contagious, with tragic consequences. " [Knocktout King: New Brand of street violence targets random victims]

-"It isn't clear how long Knockout King has been around, nor is the exact number of attacks known. The FBI doesn't track it separately, but Slay said he has heard from several mayors about similar attacks and criminologists agree versions of the game are going on in many places." ['Knockout game' killer gets life sentence for St. Louis attack]

- [Bus rider's face smashed in during 'Hate Attack']

-[Knockout King: The sickening 'game' claiming lives across the country as youths beat up the vulnerable 'for attention']

-['Knockout game' case shocked St. Louis, then fell apart]

-[Man's death linked to "Knockout Game"]

216.116.162.226 (talk) 18:30, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

This article keeps on being reverted even thought the game is predominately "played" by black youths but that note keeps getting removed!

- [[1]]

- [[2]]

- [[3]]

- [[4]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.92.132.215 (talk) 02:24, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Add your source to the text... multiple if need be. I'll drop a help sheet on your talk page. Do that and it won't be reverted so quickly. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 02:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Racial violence

Its time to add the subject of racial violence to this topic. Its quite apparent to even the least educated observer, that this game is predominately played by African American youths against European American whites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1007:B02C:F37B:A4D7:E5F6:AE51:49E5 (talk) 17:17, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The ridiculous self-censorship about the black racists involved is dangerous for the whole Wikipedia. This is not Niggapedia, bear it in mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.66.185.0 (talk) 20:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Racist Urban Legend

I've checked these links pretty carefully. It's clear -- from an encyclopedic point of view -- that we can document a CLAIM that there is a widely-distributed game in which uninvolved people are subjected to vicious unprovoked attacks for the amusement of teen males. This article in its present form affirms that there really is a widespread practice, when the Post-Dispatch article on the Index case was already (very properly) asking whether that view might not be imposing a connecting narrative on random acts of violence. It has all the earmarks of a rumor panic (hints of conspiracy) and it provokes all the usual responses -- just look at the comments section on any of the videos posted. I'm pretty sure you've got an urban legend here, very much like the "Lights Out" type, but the racial violence? That's all in the comments --including the ones here. 150.243.14.35 (talk) 19:10, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Please relate your comments to specific Wikipedia policies. Otherwise, this discourse is just WP:soapboxing. Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

No soapboxing at all. I am responding to 1) how this subject is framed (as if the game existed, in some stable form, which is undocumented, and thus treating the Loch Ness Monster as part of the fauna of Scotland) and to someone's suggestion that we really need to make it clear that this (nonexistent) game is a device for black people to hurt white people (the evidence suggests no such thing). Rather, the evidence suggests it's an urban legend by which white people express their anxieties about black people. Now, those are the observations of a wikipedian, on no other evidence than is available to everybody reading, on a no-need-to-document-the-sky-is-blue basis. That's a really normal part of editing. Don't be so snarky, k? 150.243.14.35 (talk) 21:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

So you're just soapboxing on critical race theory then? Stop wasting everybody's time, especially while you're not citing any relevant Wikipedia polices. None of the information you reference above is even included in the article. Plot Spoiler (talk) 22:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

You're being obtuse and unpleasant. The article as it stands says something exists which may not -- you need a specific wikipolicy for that? Somebody proposed a change, I explained why it would be a bad thing? And you want a policy for that? OK, show me where it says we need to cite a specific wikipolicy to communicate at all? This conversation is an attempt to improve the article, and if you feel your time is wasted in it, exit. 150.243.14.35 (talk) 23:25, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Inaccurate reporting

The story originally linked to http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/11/16/potentially-fatal-knockout-game-targeting-strangers-may-be-spreading-to-d-c/, which identifies the guy in the alley as Ralph Santiago, but in the video, his name is given as James Addlespurger. If you click through to the link about Santiago at NJ.com, there is no mention of this game, but there is another article, now listed, that does mention the game.

I have not checked the other footnotes, but because the entry repeated the erroneous information from the CBS report, I separated the two reports and provided separate links. Cyraxote (talk) 22:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Protected

I've just semi-protected the article for a month, as there's currently a daily barrage of useless, racist vandalism. As there's dialog here on the talk page now, anon editors can feel free to weigh in here instead - Alison ^❤ 22:14, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Avoiding Racial Component?!

Please note that the "knockout game" includes aspects of racial profiling where individuals are targeted based on their race. Also most of the attacks are sucker-punches. This activity is strongly related to racial profiling. It is surprising that this aspect of this article is avoided... it would be like referring to the Nazi death camps without referencing war or Jews. Please have someone look into this post and edit. 71.193.29.244 (talk) 03:43, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

 Not done: Thanks for wanting to improve the article. Suggestions are always welcome and do not require an {{edit semi-protected}} template. The template is used to allow non-auto-confirmed editors to make specific, detailed edit requests. Those edit requests must be detailed at a "please change X to Y" level and include reliable sources supporting any factual change. Regards, Celestra (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

The knockout game, also known as polar bear hunting, is overwhelmingly perpetrated by blacks on white victims. 74.213.33.235 (talk) 20:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.. See also the reply to the previous request, immediately above this. --Stfg (talk) 20:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Other incidents before 2011

Whether or not these other articles are referring to the same thing, they use the same name or something similar like "polar bear hunting" (possibly a term purposely inflamatory created by media sensationalists) and it is allegedly played similarly. I, for one, would like these articles referenced in the wiki page along with that previous one from 1992. If nothing else they can be evidence of past attacks either mistakenly attributed or possibly adding to the evidence of this not being a new game.

-[2007 Teens knock-out game targets strangers Four Hoboken High students arrested in connection with assault]

-[2009 Columbia teens play to knock out victims]

-[2010 Unprovoked attacks in Champaign may be linked] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.1.44.167 (talk) 20:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Lets just be honest

Whatever your feelings, we all know deep inside that this does in fact have a racial component. Certainly it is not an organized movement against whites by blacks, but the perpetrators just simply ARE black youths. I have a problem with the word "conservative" being used in the article. Why not just say something like "some commentators"? Adding the word conservative seems to be a slimy attempt to discredit the points that follow it. Hope more editors are concerned enough to offer their input on this article. 24.60.214.65 (talk) 04:09, 22 November 2013 (UTC)