Talk:.NET Framework

Obsolescence section is inaccurate and should probably be removed

ASP.NET is a server-side language. HTML5 is a specification for markup that is generated by a server-side language and presented to the web browser. HTML5 is incapable of directly accessing database / etc that you would need server-side code to do. The entire section is basically inaccurate FUD being spread to attempt to undermine windows 8.

Remember when windows 7 was going to leave developers out in the cold too? It went on to annihilate all prior sales records that MS had.

Also, mono / .NET on linux isn't ceasing, it's right here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xamarin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sniperfox (talk • contribs) 18:37, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Is it necessary for my home computer?

As per many questions and criticisms here and on the Web, I added a paragraph: added to lede: Is this program necessary for my home computer? Seemingly it is not, with exceptions noted. Here is my addition:

Does the average computer user need it? For most non-programmers .Net with it's many megabytes of critical security updates are completely unnecessary on the average home computer -- unless one wants to run .Net code written in programming languages like C#, or chooses certain uncommon plugins, aps, or other software. If a program you have installed was built using .Net Framework, and you uninstall .Net Framework, that program will stop working.

Looking around, it seems obvious from Micrsoft's subtle wording and implications that they want us to think .Net is (or soon will be) needed, and therefore this conclusion will not be appreciated by Microsoft's warriors. If so it may need further defense, evidence and references.
--68.127.87.211 (talk) 17:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)Doug Bashford

I don't know why you're making this into a Microsoft issue. It's the same as, say, Java or Flash: you need it if you are running applications that use it. Most of them will come with the appropriate installer/setup program anyway, so end users do not need to think about it. 86.164.200.121 (talk) 07:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

".NET Fx"

I tried to add a mention to the .NET Framework being also called "NET Fx", and I got reverted saying that "NET Fx" stands for ".NET Framework Extension", which I don't think is the case, and everyone on this talk page (do a search for "fx" on this page) seems to agree it is not. Also, installers for the .NET Framework have always been called "dotnetfx.exe", so that's gotta be something. This said, I think a mention is in order. Especially since "netfx" and other similar terms redirect here, but once you get here the term is nowhere to be seen. --uKER (talk) 02:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I really don't mind looking into this issue. Would you let us see your source, please? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 13:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I never knew a source was required for an informal name. The best I can give is Google inferring them as synonyms. Here's a demonstration of that. --uKER (talk) 16:43, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello again. Wikipedia:Verifiability says "any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source". Well, correct me if I am wrong but this specific contribution is now challenged. As for your Google results, I am sorry, these results are sketchy at best. When I trace them, they end up in dead end. Anyway, what do you suggest we do? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 17:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I didn't mean it as a reliable source. Just a pragmatic demonstration that vox populi considers "NET FX" to be a synonymous of ".NET Framework". --uKER (talk) 04:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello again. I am sorry to hear that. Well, I am not going to run a whole argument on the many varying problems with your attempt because I am your Wikipedia friend, not a TV myth buster. What I want to know, however, is: What do you suggest we do. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 08:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Dunno. Maybe mention it's unofficially called "NET Fx"? My problem is, it doesn't make any sense that "netfx" redirects here if there's no mention here of what "netfx" is. --uKER (talk) 02:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

C'mon, we could easily add in a line saying that the downloads for the NET framework are labelled "Net Fx", and that it means "Net Framework Extension" and link to the download page of the NET framework 1, 2. -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 03:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I do not rule out that we can mention that the setup file of .NET Framework runtime for desktop has "dotnetfx" in its name. But any other synthesis of this fact without a source is not right. Especially, I do not agree that is unofficially called NET Fx. By the way: Other .NET Framework installation files like .NET Framework Compact and .NET Framework SDK do not show this pattern. All the more reason to be careful. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 14:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Criticism section

The criticisms are either unattributed or unsourced or are not specific to .NET, but are general drawbacks of intermediate runtime code. It should be replaced with a reception section listing industry reception, both positive and negative. Karpouzi (talk) 02:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

how to restore the calender event using webparts in vb.net — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonyeugeneraj (talk • contribs) 12:52, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

The flag for criticism consisting of drawbacks of .NET's Halt & Sweep garbage collection should be removed, which I will do. This is a characteristic of H&S Garbage collection, and visa-vie languages like C, C++ and other unmanaged (or mismanaged, depending on your point of view) code, is an important attribute of anything running in a .NET environment. The criticism is valid, even if it's not unique to .NET.

It's especially important to point this out as MSFT and it's writers go to great lengths to paint C/C++ etc. as scary rouge code that's running around loose wildly out of control putting your entire organization at great risk. If real programmers who've been managing their own memory for decades and using tools like ValGrind to verify that they have no memory leaks then the world needs to know that effort has a benefit, specifically, no Halt & Sweep memory management. Sorry MSFT, your software isn't above criticism any more than JAVA or any other managed environment.

To be fair, there are advantages to managed code for applications like SOA and SAAS. Both, and a general discussion of garbage collection should be expanded elsewhere. --Solidpoint (talk) 00:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Which Runs On which Windows OS

1. I see a box saying which version was shipped with which Microsoft OS. Though have read that XP SP3 installs .NET or some componments to run a early .NET software maybe 1.0 or 1.1 (maybe someone could find this out and add it)

2. More important since I came here looking for this answer and why I write here.

What OS can run what versions. Microsoft XP can run all up to and including .NET 4.0 this is known by some people but not for .NET 4.5

Needed is another box added to the page to show these details because I guess most that come here look mainly for this.

87.242.160.125 (talk) 20:44, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Why is "the," as in "the .NET Framework" consistently omitted?

Is there some rule of grammar that calls for omitting "the"? 76.121.0.141 (talk) 07:13, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello.

Yes, there is a grammar rule, taught in most elementary schools: Definite nouns and proper names do not take definite article; they are already definite. (There are exceptions, such as The Hague.) Microsoft pages inconsistently use "the .NET Framework" and ".NET Framework". Well, I guess Microsoft must not abandon writing documentation pages to underpaid Chinese secretaries. For more info, see WP:THE.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 02:16, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Codename Lisa,

WP:THE is about article naming conventions. It does not discuss definite articles in complete sentences. In general, proper names do not take the definite article. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Two of the exceptions where one should use the definite article before a proper noun are: 1) names composed of common and proper nouns and 2) names of theories, effects, devices, scales, and so on modified by a proper noun used as an adjective. See Yale Graduate School notes on definite article usage

".Net Framework" falls into both of these categories, so it should be proceeded by the definite article when it is used in a sentence, although it should not be proceeded by the definite article in the article name per WP:THE.

108.4.57.126 (talk) 01:19, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi. First, if the rule #1 the you said was correct about composite proper nouns, we should have had written "the Microsoft Word", "the Microsoft Office", "the Symantec Antivirus", "the Kaspersky Internet Security", etc. Even some of the examples of that paper fail to comply with this rule; e.g. "Yale University" should have been "the Yale University" which the said paper explicit forbids. And, no I don't see how .NET Framework would fall into the second category. And while you seem oblivious to these easy-to-spot inconsistencies, you are quick to nitpick on my "For more info, see WP:THE", treating it as if I have said I followed WP:THE, which was an iron-clad policy.

What you are missing here, my friend, is context (which is why I sent you to WP:THE). The Yale paper is just a guideline meant to help learners have a sketchy idea of when to use definite article and when not. In Wikipedia we apply common sense to guidelines and follow consensus through editing policy. In keeping up with the latter, we do not add definite article to full names of computer software; e.g. there are no such things as "the iTunes", "the TuneUp Utilities", "the Ground Control", "the Devil May Cry". (But we do have "the Disk Doctor" or "the Office", which are ambiguous.)

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 11:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

@Codename Lisa: It should be pointed out that the Yale paper specifically addresses University names as examples when NOT to use "the", with some exceptions:

• Names of Universities: Yale University, Columbia University, Oxford University

Exception (of-forms): the University of Michigan, the University of Hawaii

The problem is that there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to software names. Codename Lisa is correct that more often than not, "the" isn't needed and shouldn't be used as demonstrated in the examples she gave. However, in this specific case, it makes grammatical sense to say "the .NET Framework" in certain contexts. For example, "Microsoft added an update to the .NET Framework" would be appropriate. However, if you were to change things around putting the proper noun at the beginning of a sentence, it might make better sense to omit the article as shown in this example: ".NET Framework received an update from Microsoft". A variety of factors can influence when it's appropriate including sentence structure, context, and the way the proper noun is used in reliable sources, which if you ask me is probably the most important. We have a similar discussion taking place at the Wii U article's talk page, albeit in regards to the name of a hardware product as opposed to software. --GoneIn60 (talk) 22:49, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi.

First, I am afraid your examples are not rule-based. (They strike me as wishy-washy.) I can certainly create a sentence in which "the .NET framework" is a perfectly valid construct but then changing the sentence from active voice to passive voice does not change that. For example, in a paragraph, when I am talking about a certain version of .NET Framework, by the virtue of metonymy, I can either say "Microsoft released an update for the .NET Framework" or "The .NET Framework received an update". However, this is an example of bad writing. It is better to write "Microsoft released an update for the Framework". ("F" can be small too.) An even better form is "Microsoft released an update." In appropriate writing, ".NET Framework" should only be used to talk about general facts that are generally correct; even then, use the full form sparringly.

Whenever you found yourself using "the .NET Framework", be prepared to be able to specify ".NET Frameworks" and "a .NET Framework" in that context.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 00:30, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

You make some good points about active vs. passive voice, and I actually agree that changing from one to the other shouldn't change how you refer to the subject. It was a bad example on my part. Since I have very little interest with the development of this article, I want to clarify that the above is just a comment, not a position for or against its use here. I plan to continue the discussion at the Wii U talk page and stay in the scope of hardware devices. --GoneIn60 (talk) 04:36, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi.

This looks like a continuation of the discussions on Template talk:.NET Framework version history. I hope the result is better this time.

As I reminded in that page, according to Wikipedia:Verifiability, contributions that fail to cite a reliable source may be challenged or discarded.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 09:16, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Codename Lisa (talk) 17:07, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

.NET cross-platform (to what extent)?

I see the "Cross-platform software" was added (not based on Mono, but Microsoft's .NET code):

1. "open sourcing the full server-side .NET stack and expanding .NET to run on the Linux and Mac OS platforms. [..] Delivering on its promise to support cross-platform development, Microsoft is providing the full .NET server stack in open source, including ASP.NET, the .NET compiler, the .NET Core Runtime, Framework and Libraries, enabling developers to build with .NET across Windows, Mac or Linux."

2. "Visual Studio 2015 and .NET 2015: build for any device

Built from the ground up with support for iOS, Android and Windows, Visual Studio 2015 Preview makes it easier for developers to build applications and services for any device, on any platform."

1. and 2. are from the same source (and I quote all I saw relevant to non-Windows) and 2. (Visual Studio) is not about the "Core", I just notice Android and iOS, client platforms only mentioned and not Mac OS, while in 1. "server-side .NET stack".

[iOS only supports programs compiled with Xcode.] What can you do - right now - with this code? comp.arch (talk) 00:42, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Your question seems to concern the recent viral news about .NET Core becoming open-source. This post gives you a good idea what it is: [1]. As a computer user, everything you have seen of .NET so far remain proprietary, including Windows Presentation Foundation and Windows Forms. For a full list of what open-source in .NET, see www.dotnetfoundation.org/projects.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 13:43, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

article does poor job of explaining what .NET does and why it is used

After reading the article, I still have no idea of what .NET does and why it is needed. The article seems to have been written for people who already are well versed in computer science, etc. I am not as well versed and expect a Wiki article to be written in easier to understand language.