Talk:TWA Flight 800

All eyewitness interviews i have seen say something like "..i heard a bang looked up at saw a missle streaking upward.." The problem with these statement is that it has a complete disregard for the differences between the speed of light and speed of sound. It is far more likely they heard the original fuel explosion, looked up and saw the fuselage rising (remember the sound and what people see are out of sync by substantial amount). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.20.7 (talk • contribs)

Excellent point. In the research I have done on this disaster, this has come up, but it seems that there are not references to human psychology. Perhaps there was a delay, but when the witness told the story the delay was suppressed (I am no psychologist, but it makes sense). I think the witness accounts are important to the article. --StatsJunkie 15:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Although if it was a missile the likely perpetrator (source is perhaps less inflammatory?) is the U.S. Navy.

The phrase "likely perpetrator" seems to express point-of-view. Should be changed. Or at least change the word perpetrator to something more neutral. --StatsJunkie 15:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking we need a bit of backing up for this rather bald statement. In understand that Pierre Salinger and others have fingered the U.S. Navy, but their arguments seem very fringe-ey to me. A bit more explanation that just this one sentence seems in order.

No more fringe-ey than the idea of a terrorist missile. In my opinion a navy accident is many times more probable than a terrorist missile. The recent incident in Russia with the Israeli plane for example. There are some interesting web-sites supporting the friendly fire POV. But an on-board accident is more likely than both.

In the National Geographic documentary of this flight, Naval action is ruled out. --Tuvok 00:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

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I was speaking to someone who worked in the defense industry a while ago, and he seemed sure that it was indeed a missle that downed the 747. And what good is this fourth or fifth-hand information coming from a semi-anonymous source? Jack squat. I expect that even if it is true, that all the damning evidence has long been destroyed. So it is likely impossible to disprove the official explaination.

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It's worth being aware of the value of eyewitness reports of air accidents, or more to the point, their lack of value. In general, the accounts of non-technical eyewitnesses are very suspect indeed. If a Cessna 172 runs out of fuel and crashes and five people see it, the investigator usually discovers, after interviewing witnesses, that four Boeing 747s simulteanously exploded in mid-air. This is not to say that eyewitness accounts are of no value, simply to make the point that a competent air safety investigator ponders them very carefully before according significance to them.

Now I am not suggesting that we dismiss Donaldson's theory because of this: he is a careful worker and has amassed enough evidence to raise genuine doubts. But we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions either. Also, we should remember that fuel tank explosions caused by faulty wiring are a well-known and demonstrably real thing. Just last year, for example, an RAAF F-111 had exactly this happen. The fleet has since had its wiring renewed - and IIRC, the same thing was done with the 747 fleet after the Flight 800 disaster. Tannin 01:30 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)

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After reading the book Into the Buzzsaw by Kristina Borjesson, which dedicates about 50 pages to the crash, and subsequent cover-up, of TWA 800, I find it very disturbing to see the final paragraph of this article belittle the notion that the plane was shot down by a missile. This is the conclusion of many award winning investigative journalists, not a few conspiracy nuts. I'm editing the last paragraph to remove the notion that this is merely a conspiracy theory, as well as the line that there is "little corroborating evidence." I also plan to make serious changes to the alternate theories section in the near future, detailing some of the evidence supporting the missile theory, and possibly also evidence of a cover-up. I will post the changes here before editing the article. - TalkHard Nov. 4, 2003

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Not to seem insensitive but is Marcel Dadi famous enough to be the only person on the plane specifically mentioned by name? --Golbez 20:55, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It's interesting to note that this incident was the initial trigger for the government to introduce a mandatory ID on flights rule - even though terrorist action was later ruled out.

SM-2 ranges

The article used to state that 800 was within range of the SM-2 Block IV ER. However, reading over various sites, it appears this missile has not yet been deployed to the fleet. The only reference I can find is that the CG 70 and CG 73 recieved the missile in 1999, but it is not clear if this was operational or for testing, and the context suggests the later (the same section notes another boat acting as the testbed for'...). Many other references suggest that the missile is still not ready for widespread deployment due to various problems, and that general deployment is budgetted for 2007.

The Block IIIB, which is the current deployment version (baring the above) has a range of up to 100 miles, well outside the range of TWA 800.

So, does anyone know for SURE if the SM-2 Block IV/ER was fitted to the CG 60 or not? It should be easy enough to find out.

Maury 13:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

You may have already seen these links [1] [2]; they definitely make it sound like it's not in service yet. But would this really matter to a conspiracy theorist? Perhaps this incident is one of the reasons they've been delayed in getting into service. Surely the Navy simply covered up the fact that they'd fired a missle; who could second-guess them? It's just too easy to speculate around such obstructions to the theory. ;) Thanks for cleaning up the section! —HorsePunchKid→龜 19:43, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Photo?

I am also curious about this portion:

Soon after, a photo that a passenger of a North American Airlines plane arriving at JFK supposedly took, seemed to support the missile theory because the "photo" showed a "missile" missing the NA Airlines jet narrowly.

What exactly are the quotes for? Is it, as I read it, implying that the photo in question was a fake or doctored? If so, why is it even in this article?

I can't find any source of this on the 'net, where I would expect to on at least one conspiracy page.

Maury 13:37, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I assume those quotes are there because they're only claims? And that the "photo" and "missile" don't have any "concrete" proof. Are there no pictures of the actual crash though? I don't see why we can't have one of those up... --Mrtea 01:11, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

This is the first I have read about a photo. I did read about a passenger on a (US Airways?) flight that videotaped an object streak under the jet from left to right, and other pilots confirmed the same sight. --StatsJunkie 15:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Alternate Theory POV

More work needs to be done to make this section NPOV. Discrediting theories with facts (such as what is written about the Navy theory) is obviously fine. But I don't see any of the real theories that are backed up by evidence discussed enough. One website for an alternative viewpoint is here [3]. Bayerischermann 01:29, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

fuel change

i altered 'Investigators also concluded that the ruptured airframe fuel tanks had caused avgas to drop from the aircraft' to 'Investigators also concluded that the ruptured airframe fuel tanks had caused fuel to drop from the aircraft'. Gas turbine aircraft like the 747 use aviation turbine fuel which is kerosene, avgas is used for piston engine aircraft and is a leaded gasoline similar to regular gasoline for cars.

Witness Observations Too Detailed?

Let's not repeat NTSB disinformation to discredit witnesses.

In their final witness report, the NTSB said that the details in some witness accounts seemed too detailed, and were most likely trying to discredit witnesses such as witness #73[4] (name redacted by FBI). But looking more closely, she was one of the closest land-based witnesses of the 670 interviewed. I went back to where she was (not too far from Moriches Inlet on Fire Island) and could clearly ID wide body jets on their way to Europe, out over the ocean.

Witness 73 told investigators the front section broke off the aircraft soon after it exploded. The Navy confirmed her observation by recovering the front section about a mile closer to JFK than the main fuselage and wings.[5] However, she reported seeing an object--that she concluded was a missile--rise up and collide with 800 before the front section fell off. Details that surely conflict with the NTSB's theory, but that are corroborated by wreckage recovery locations, as well as dozens of other witnesses up and down Long Island's coastline.

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Some changes

Changed: when the fuel tank exploded

To: an explosion occurred

Reason: The timing of the fuel tank exploding was not determined. The NTSB speculates that the fuel tank was the initiating event, but there is much evidence to the contrary.

Removed: The wind pushed the aircraft into a climb

Reason: There is no evidence that the aircraft climbed. Radar data indicates that it went into an immmediate descent and left bank. The "climb" was postulated by federal investigators to explain witness sightings of a 'rising object' seen before the explosion, but there is no evidence that supports it. In fact, existing evidence refutes it.

Changed: Investigators also concluded that the ruptured airframe fuel tanks had caused fuel to drop from the aircraft. While initially falling clear, it subsequently ignited and burned, from the end of the stream upward, its way back to the aircraft, causing another explosion. This would account for eyewitness testimony suggestive of a missile launch.

To: Investigators said that witnesses who reported seeing a missile actually saw Flight 800 climbing sharply and trailing flames after it exploded. The NTSB produced simulations of the proposed climb[6], but radar returns from the doomed flight do not show the necessary ground-speed reduction to match these simulations.[7]

Reason: This is not the official explanation of the missile reports. Officials suggested that witnesses who thought they saw a missile were actually watching Flight 800 climb sharply. The wings didn't fail and release their fuel until Flight 800 was descending sharply, several thousand feet below the initiating event. At no time was this stream of fuel 'below' Flight 800. Furthermore, no federal animation (there were at least three--two NTSB and on CIA) shows fuel igniting and catching up with Flight 800, and recall that the CIA animation was produced to show what the witnesses 'actually' saw.[8]

Tom Stalcup, President Flight 800 Independent Researchers Organzation[9] 69.163.62.160 20:09, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It is fair to point out that the FIRO, the organization listed earlier in this talk page, has an advocacy goal pointing to a missile strike:

From their own website:

FIRO has also considered all of the theories for the crash that have emerged over the years and has determined that only one theory can account for all of the available evidence. For a fully-referenced article describing our findings and probable cause determination, visit our probable cause page.

I believe it is safe to say that, similar to the JFK Assassination, there is an official explanation, and other explanations. That page might be an excellent model on which to base the 'cause' section of this article, since there is not a full consensus on the final cause of flight 800's demise. This article will not be the place where such a global consensus occurs, and Wikipedia makes clear that it not to be a soapbox advocating one point of view over another. Overloading one section of this article with evidence will not lead to a global consensus. Please see WP:NOT, specifically the section 'Wikipedia is not a propoganda machine', and its references to advocacy.

Tom, if you wish to edit this article going forward, you may want to consider getting a permanent Wikipedia account. It makes it easier to track changes done by a single person, and makes peer review of an article easier. Skybunny 12:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

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the real cause

The real cause is overheating fuel caused by an overheated air-conditioning duct (the temperatures outside were 28 degreese centigrade, the air-conditioning were turned on high to keep the passangers cool) under the center tank. A wire that runs into the fuel tank (The wire that brings information to the cockpit) that short-circuted (the wire is to transmit information in low watt but a nearby high watt wire short-circuted it) causes a spark that ignites it. It is true, i've herd of a materials that was inside a homemade bomb is untrue. The plane was used as a trainer to train dogs detecting explosives using real materials. Irfanfaiz 09:37, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Irfanfaiz, I'm personally aware of the bomb sniffing exercise, and it is hinted at in the 'terrorist bomb' section. If you have a specific reference where the FBI makes its statements regarding the bomb material, it would be an excellent addition to the article. You may wish to avoid language like 'the real cause' and stick instead to 'The official explanation is...' or 'One alternate theory is...' Skybunny 12:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The bomb sniffing exercise would easily explain the discovery of RDX/PETN found on the victims' bodies as well as in the fuselage, however, Donaldson, one of the references, concluded that this particular aircraft was not used in the exercises. I wish somebody would have researched the discrepancy. --StatsJunkie 15:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

A plea for NPOV writing and avoiding alternate theory evidence flooding

Greetings, all. I'm writing this in the hope that some of the difficulties come across in other controversial articles might be avoided in this one. I've made several prospective edits to this article, to have many of them almost immediately reversed.

TWA Flight 800 is a controversial article. There is the NTSB's official explanation, and at least 2-3 major alternative theories. Although I suppose this is just one person's opinion, I believe there are several things which could help this article grow and prosper, as it were...

1. If you are making major additions to this article (I'm speaking especially to 152.163.100.201, Mr. Tom Stalcup, if you're still editing this article, and others), please register with Wikipedia, get a user account, and log in while making changes to this article. It makes much clearer who is making changes, and makes the flow of editing more understandable. User accounts tend to be more 'respected' than anonymous edits; plus, they allow things like real correspondence in the talk pages here, and on a person's user page. If your IP changes, your username won't, so edits won't be confused as coming from someone completely new.

2. Please sign comments and replies to comments on talk pages with four tildes '~'. This makes clear who's talking in a given comment.

3. Some time ago, the article JFK Assassination, which I have contributed significantly to over the years, had an issue where alternate theories became bloated beyond belief because contributors were putting bit after bit after bit of evidence in a given section, as though to convince the reader through massive amounts of information that a given theory was (the most) plausible.

I'd like to point out the article Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, particularly the section 'Propaganda or advocacy of any kind.' It states, "Of course, an article can report objectively about such things, as long as an attempt is made to approach a neutral point of view. You might wish to go to Usenet or start a blog if you want to convince people of the merits of your favorite views." Mr. Tom Stalcup's website, FIRO, says this about its research into flight 800[10]: 'FIRO has also considered all of the theories for the crash that have emerged over the years and has determined that only one theory can account for all of the available evidence. For a fully-referenced article describing our findings and probable cause determination, visit our probable cause page.' While I would not inherently discount the research presented there, I would conclude from this statement that the website's purpose is not pure research, but advocacy, and urge use of this, and other similar websites, be considered carefully based on Wikipedia's charter.

I believe that if a given section gets too long and filled with facts that don't seem to fit together, a reader will become lost in the section and its value will be lost. An alternate theory does not need to waste its time discounting the official theory to make its case. I do believe that it need only explain its case, and use key portions of evidence, rather than all portions. The two or three most powerful and reference-able pieces of evidence in a theory will matter a lot more than 75 eyewitness opinions and everything anyone in a position of power ever said about the theory. A person can go to a website or other resource (listed at the bottom of this article) if they want to see all pieces of evidence available. This is an encyclopeadic article. That said, I believe that an alternative theory should be able to stand on its own. If it need discount one or two pieces of the official explanation to do this, that can be stated in that theory's section. If it requires 5,000 words to discount piece after piece of NTSB evidence, I think it can be argued that it doesn't stand as strongly.

That being said, what evidence is quoted, both in the official and alternative explanations, should have first generation accepted references, like an NTSB report, or a major news organization's laboratory analysis. The entire 'Missile strike (unknown/terrorist origin)' has references which all point to one single person's website: http://hometown.aol.com/missiletwa800/index.htm. The main article on the website about TWA 800 says this: 'This document presents the author's opinion as to the explanation for the evidence uncovered to date.' I would not consider this a first generation accepted reference. The author himself admits that it is conjecture. I'd like a second opinion, but I think that tends to render most of that entire section as conjecture by proxy.

Before I start trying to make edits to approach a Wikipedia:Neutral Point of View - a balanced view of different theories, giving them 'fair shakes', I'm hoping for some degree of assurance that evidence flooding and use of second, third, and fourth generation research will not render such efforts moot. Were it me, I'd be making the alternate theory sections shorter, and removing evidence from sites with a clear advocacy goal unless its validity can be assessed objectively. I believe the alternate theories can be stated concisely without being proven, which I do not believe is not the purpose of Wikipedia anyway.

Looking forward to insights and replies...Skybunny 19:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

As no-one has commented here or raised an objection in the last several days, I have attempted a major reorganization of the alternate theories section. It is based up on a few major ideals:

1. Each of the theories, official and otherwise, now occupy approximately equal space in this article. I have removed unreferenced assertions, added references where I could find them (such as from CNN), and tried to reduce the amount of cruft that does not concisely explain alternate theories. Yes, I have deleted material, but I believe these deletions do not detriment from the article. I believe one or two key pieces of the theories are good starts to understand the theory, and that someone can go to the linked The Donaldson Report, as an example, if they want laborious detail into each piece of evidence the report mentions. See JFK assassination, and, for instance, the Warren Commission's place in that.

2. I have tried to diversify references where possible.

3. I have tried to explain alternate theories as a product of the amount of time it took the official report to be released. Skybunny 22:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Seconds From Disaster documentary

I have reverted a change made by 134.225.239.114 concerning the content of the National Geographic Seconds From Disaster documentary about TWA Flight 800. I have a copy of the recording, and specifically reviewed its conclusion to determine the wording used. It leans heavily toward the official explanation, but the word 'probable' is taken directly from the program. Usually the program opens its 45th or so minute by saying:

"Now, using computer simulation, we are able to piece together the chain of events that lead to disaster X".

The TWA 800 program (which I admit I don't have in front of me, but...) said:

"Now, using computer simulation, we are able to piece together the probable chain of events that led to the TWA 800 disaster."

I think the word 'probable' is important, and is a statement about the conclusions the program reached. Unless someone has a different working definition, 'probable' in my mind means 'likely, but not certain'. Skybunny 15:58, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

"Probable" is standard procedure. If you can find a single scientific paper (outside the realm of mathematical proofs) that uses the word "definitely", congratulations - you've found pseudo-science. --70.108.85.21 00:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

From PNA/Aerospace

• TWA Flight 800 - poor and, at the time of submission, inaccurate coverage of the NTSB report. Cedars 15:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Problems with this article

This article is of serious concern. It states that an "electrical failure in the center fuel tank" was the source of ignition for the TWA 800 disaster. But the 305 word abstract from the NTSB clearly contradicts this statement saying that "The source of ignition...was [most likely] a short circuit outside of the CWT." The article then dedicates to the NTSB investigation a measly 400 words (about a third of what it dedicates to alternative theories about the crash). In essence, the coverage this article offers of the NTSB investigation is woefully inadequate and at times inaccurate. Until this is fixed it needs attention. Cedars 15:01, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree, as one of the few non-anonymous editors working on this article (significantly) in the last month. I welcome any help people can offer, and offer the defense that I was focusing a lot more on the alternative theories section to try to NPOV it. I was actually trying to figure out a way to get more WP editors here by saying something along lines of 'Help me, please', but maybe the 'This article needs attention' flag will do that. I'd also like an opinion on whether the alternate theories section is NPOV enough to remove that flag, now -- or edits to get it there.Skybunny 16:26, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I didn't read the alternative theories section at first, but it is well-written, and does seem to give a balanced viewpoint on the theories. I may make a few minor tweaks to it as time goes on. Otherwise hopefully we can work together to improve information on the NTSB report and maybe integrate the trivia section. Thanks for your support and work Skybunny. Cedars 00:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

• Suggestion: Remove content regarding alternative theories, placing this content on a secondary page. Provide a short summary of the alternative theories, and provide a link in the section to the secondary page. See 7_World_Trade_Center#Alternate_theories_regarding_the_collapse for an example. --Durin 18:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

If either the missile strike or bomb sections got any longer, I think this would pretty much be where we'd want to go. (I'm thinking here, for instance, of the 'Kennedy assasination theories' article). I suppose we could call that inevitable, because there will be more evidence flooding as the two sections are filled in again with the reasons their theories are correct and the official explanation is wrong. I'm content to let all three explanations sit with even ground and provide the source material, but acknowledge that granting enough time, that's not likely to happen. If you want to try reorganizing this article in that way, it might not hurt to see what we get. The larger conspiracy oriented articles do seem to ultimately resort to an 'other theories' article, with a brief and concise paragraph in the main article. Skybunny 19:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous message

listin the theory is proven false. no terrist attacked the plane. No no no. Okay. hey common in 1996 the world was safe, with an exception of kosovo and Iraq. Who thought of the theory needs to rethink. Thank u. Unsigned comment.= = It doesn't matter whether the theory has been proven false. Enough people believe it so that thee should be a description in the article. Academic Challenger 08:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Uh. Wow. This is one of the most incoherant messages I've ever seen on the internet, and I've spent time on USENET. "Academic Challenger"? If I was an English teacher, I'd agree. Or a history teacher, for that matter. (disclaimer: I side with the official report, and in general I disdain conspiracy theories - so I'm not just saying this based on differing idealogies) --70.108.85.21 00:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I did not make most of that comment, for the record, only the last sentence. Academic Challenger 08:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Microseconds???

The article says that "Two unusual pauses in the cockpit voice recorder's tape, each about two microseconds long...". Microseconds sounds way too short. What type of sound recorder samples at millions of samples per second, such that a microsecond gap could be noticed? 44 kHz (44 thousand samples per second) is plenty for CD audio and even extreme audiophiles won't do more than double or triple that.--Prosfilaes 18:57, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with you there - there is no such thing as a pause of two microseconds - as all audible sound waves are already separated by "gaps" of much larger periods of time. It is clearly a mistake. It is like saying there is a pothole in the road that's the size of a grain of sand. The size of the supposed pothole in comparison to the normal texture of the average road makes the statement absurd. Reswobslc 18:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The CNN story

Greetings all. I have become something of an air travel buff over the years, and felt I had to weigh in.

I'm very disappointed that more space hasn't been devoted in this article to CNN's special on this tragedy. The most extensive report any mainstream news organization has done on Flight 800, and it only merits two sentences? Disgraceful. The article also fails to mention the nitrogen inertion system that could have very well prevented this crash. I'm gonna try and tweak this article to include more info on these ... and as a journalist by training, I think I can do this in an NPOV manner. Blueboy96 07:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely... Go for it. Grandmasterka 07:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

The CNN storytelling

CNN might be mistaken in its account given, see: http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/2227/48/

(emphasis added)

CNN Presents TWA Flight 800 Misinformation The recent CNN Presents show 'No Survivors' presented controversial government information on the crash of TWA Flight 800 with inadequate fact checking. The piece showed an animation of Flight 800 climbing sharply after exploding, in direct conflict with radar data from the crash. Multiple radar sites refute the climb and indicate that the jetliner immediately descended after exploding. Such a climb was first used in a CIA-produced animation to explain witnesses accounts describing a missile rising off the ocean and colliding with Flight 800. The climbing aircraft "may have looked like a missile attacking an aircraft," according to the CIA. In 1999, Flight 800 Independent Researchers Organization released their analysis of the radar evidence. "We simply took the government's own radar and time positions of Flight 800 and calculated the plane's speed," said FIRO Chairman Tom Stalcup. "The speed increased, which can't happen while climbing sharply." According to the law of conservation of energy, Flight 800 had to reduce its speed if it climbed sharply. And all government simulations show such a slow-down, directly conflicting with the radar record. CNN's animation, which also shows a significant post-explosion climb, contradicts the evidence and is bad journalism. The government's scenario requires Flight 800 climbing sharply in order to explain witness accounts of a rising streak of light seen before the crash. But since Flight 800 did not climb, as evidenced by the radar record, the missile theory is the only remaining theory that is viable. The CNN show did discuss the missile theory, but said there was no physical evidence of missile impact. This was misleading and inaccurate. In fact, CNN only discussed damage consistent with a small, shoulder-fired missile. But two days after the crash, CNN quoted a top Pentagon official saying that these missiles couldn't reach Flight 800. See: http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/19/twa/index.html Since smaller missiles couldn't likely reach Flight 800, the CNN Presents producers should not have been surprised there was no evidence of their impact. But in actuality, there was both physical and radar evidence consistent with a proximity explosion of a much larger missile. This evidence was not addressed in the 'No Survivors' show. Contact: Tom Stalcup, FIRO Chairman, 774-392-0856

It seems strange to me that government would hold on to a wrong picture (climbing and slowing) when that can and has been demonstrated so easily to be wrong ... unless they would want a wrong perception for some reason. — Xiutwel (talk) 07:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC) (On holidays till mid August)

Sick

Hmm, top portion only mentions the afluent that were aboard 800. Unless that particular editor can provide a list of all passengers, I think their exclusion of the others is ignorant to say the least. Panda

Three Windows?

If, as said in the article, this type of plane (747-131) had three windows on the upper deck, why does the photo show a plane with nine upper deck windows?

El M.

'Bomb Dog' excercise dispute.

I would like to see more written about the chemicals found aboard TWA 800 and about how they got there; 'this residue was explained as the product of a bomb detection exercise performed in the plane a few weeks before the crash.'

Peter Lance has interviewed the officer that performed this exercise, who states at length that he did not spill/allow powder to escape from any of the explosive chemical test items none of which included nitroglycerin which was also found. (and the fact that the items where placed in locations that are very inconsistent with where the RDX residues where found.)

There is also a major factor to do with whether the plane that later became TWA 800 was in fact the plane that the tests where conducted on. (there where 2 identical aircraft available at the time sitting opposite each other, the officer states that it could have been either)

Inconsistencies between the FBI's report and the officers statements of times and locations are also an issue.

I am not one for promoting books I got in Wal-Mart for $3.97 but Peters book really does have a ton of information about the Ramzi Yousef/Greg Scarpa/Khalid Sheik Mohammed connection to TWA 800 that I think this article may benefit from discussing.

'A preventable crash?' - This could also benefit from a mention about where the plane came from prior to arriving in NY; Athens, where airport security was rumored to be lax.