Talk:Homosexuality in medieval Europe

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The claim that Plato, Aristotle and Cicero were opposed to "homosexual acts" is unsupportable. All three were a product of their time that took the permissibility sexual relationships between men and men, or men and boys, to be entirely dependent on the class/age of the penetrator/penetratee and other considerations like discretion, sexual continence/restraint, and so on. Speaking about "homosexuality" is erroneous, almost all modern scholarship tends not to discuss things in terms of modern sexual orientation, and rather focuses on the act and social context

The citations provided are also wholly lacking in specificity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.80.232.79 (talk) 16:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article says "If a person was found to be homosexual". Again, this is a very dubious formulation. The laws of the Italian city states focused on acts, not orientation.

As said before, the claim that Plato called homosexual acts transgressions against natural law is objectively false. He, at least, did not decry them wholesale as the medieval Catholic church would. Numerous positive references to the homoerotic/pederastic relationship(s) of Socrates are explicit in the Platonic canon. The Phaedrus is an easy example, but more exist in other works such as the Republic, the Crito, the Phaedo, the Laws, and the Symposium. The fact that the latter two are cited in support of this (once again) objectively false statement is strange and almost inexplicable. Also, as implied above, the modern concept of sexual "orientation" (that is, an inherent and identifiable characteristic of a human being that is explicitly predictive of sexual object choice) did not exist until, arguably, the mid-twentieth century. In this light, the framing of this entry as a whole becomes troublesome at best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.241.237.67 (talk) 02:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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any proof of anyone ever being a self professed homo during this period rather than being accused of it?

so far, all I have ever seen is people being accused of homosexuality in this period, never anyone saying they are in fact homosexual. it would be nice to have a section on self professed homos in europe, rather than a list of people who have been accused of it. it reads almost like a list of people who have been accused of blasphemy or of heresy. It makes me wonder if the claim that russia has no homos is actually true, for if europe could have had no homos, why can't russia today?