Talk:Max Payne (video game)

Context, please

Context, please? What is this about? Kosebamse 14:06, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Cinematic influences

I don't have a handy source for this (and am therefore reluctant to make the change myself), but I was under the distinct impression that The Matrix was mentioned by Remedy more often as inspiration than John Woo and Hong Kong movies. In fact, I'd thought that many of the people who developed Max Payne were previously known for a graphics demo where they recreated the famous "lobby getting shot to pieces" scene. Additionally, there's the obvious recycling of not only the concept of bullet time, but the same name the Wachowskis used.

In any case, I think that Matrix merits at least a mention in the Overview section. Any thoughts? --DynSkeet 15:58, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree. K1Bond007 21:09, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, me too. Robinoke 15:15, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Clumsy attempt at working Matrix into aforementioned section done. - DynSkeet 17:48, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I recall a rumor... at first, this game was meant to be The Matrix, but Warner cancelled the contract and went to Shiny Entertainment instead. Remedy then took the engine they had developed and made Max Payne. Does anyone have more info on that?

That's absolutely false. K1Bond007 16:20, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

...not really all that heavily influenced by the Matrix

Uh, actually, Max Payne was in production a long time before The Matrix had ever been heard of; Remedy started work on it in 1997. I'm sure The Matrix had a certain degree of influence there, but the the slow-motion feature is specifically inspired far more by the Hong Kong action movies in general and John Woo in particular than The Matrix (though calling the effect bullet time was probably directly inspired by The Matrix).

To quote an interview from next-generation.com, published on September 22, 1998 (the site is now gone, but you can still find it through the Internet Archive): "The features that set Max Payne apart are the stylistic combat, it really looks and feels like a movie, slow-motion as a game-play element, strong character that stands above the crowd and last but not least a proper storyline to give context and meaning to the action."

This was about six months before the movie even came out, and as the game had already been in development for a good while then, it can easily be deduced that the idea for the slow motion stuff did not come from The Matrix. Max Payne's release was delayed quite a bit, so a lot of people think that the whole slow motion thing came from The Matrix -- but it didn't.

It was a classic example of two groups of people doing the same thing on their own, though it really should be stressed that both Remedy and the Wachowski brothers drew heavily on all the slow motion used in Hong Kong action movies.

I'm editing the article accordingly. -- Captain Disdain 23:46, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and interestingly enough, apparently "Bullet Time" was actually first trademarked by Remedy; the trademark was only later acquired by Warner Bros. It's possible that they came up with the term first, and then sold it to WB, though I can't really find any references on that. -- Captain Disdain 00:01, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The first occurrence in Max Payne of a bullet time scene (a camera rotating around two characters engaged in gunfight, while time is frozen) was in the 1999 E3 trailer, released AFTER The Matrix came out. The expression "Bullet Time" was trademarked by Remedy on May 22, 2001 (as you can see at [1]) but the expression itself was associated with the Matrix even before then. This message, dated April 1, 1999, explicitly mentions bullet time and points to a Warner Bros page about The Matrix where the term "Bullet Time" is used. Remedy just trademarked an expression that was already used. -- Devil Master 19:35, 18 Aug 2006 (MET)

GameCube?

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think Max Payne was ever released for the GameCube..

It wasn't.

Nicole Horne: Loki

Is anyone else convinved that Nicole Horne represents "The Horned One", Loki?

I think that's the intention. Her role in the plot aside, "Nicole" backwards, minus the N, is a close approximation to "Loki". -Sean Curtin 05:52, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Twin Peaks reference?

One of the TVs in the game plays a short segment visually similar to the "red room" scenes in Twin Peaks, and also features a pink flamingo that speaks "backwards", like The Man From Another Place. Is this intentional, or just a really unlikely coincidence? Maybe it should be mentioned in the article. Tronno 19:00, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Address Unknown is clearly a nod to Twin Peaks. During one of the fun house levels in the second game, you overhear two goons at one point talking about Address Unknown, and Goon A gives Goon B--who has not seen the show--a spoiler about the identity of a killer that ruins the plot for Goon B. The conversation, and the spoiler itself, are obvious references to Twin Peaks.

Also, the inane soap opera you see playing on random televisions in the games, Lords and Ladies, is somewhat reminiscent of the equally ridiculous soap opera glimpsed on various televisions in Twin Peaks entitled Invitation to Love. In both Max Payne and Twin Peaks, the fictional television shows in some way parallel the action in the main storyline. NighTrekr 04:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The cultist bar´s name

Hi there. The cultist bar´s name was "Ragna Rock" not Ragnarok. Nice play of words I thought when I played the game, that´s why I remembered it. I´m editing the article then.

story broken into points

What was done with the story detailed and broken into points in the article is nice but pay attention that this is the story of the game as told on the GBA, which is a short version of the full game's story. Please note this in the article and consider further alterations and article development.

Sin City

After recently re-reading most of the Sin City series it's clear to me that it was in fact an influence on Max Payne. Not only do the covers for Max Payne and Max Payne 2 look like something straight out of Sin City, but the character of Max looks very much like Dwight from the comics (Clive Owens in the film), and Frank Miller drops lots of Norse references too.

Here is my proposed addition to the overview section:

Frank Miller's Sin City comics are another noteworthy influence, as they also combine the noir and pulp genres with references to Norse mythology in a non-traditional medium.

I felt it was more prudent to put it here than to slap it in the main article. Thoughts? -- Hardgoodbye 06:38, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Seems like original research to me. First off, for a fact, the character Max Payne is based on Sam Lake, the author of Max Payne. It was only after Lake was unavailable for the second game that they hired someone else, but even that person has a resemblance to Lake. Second, Sin City and Max Payne are both film noirs so obviously theres going to be some similarities. Norse mythology is hardly exclusive to either Max Payne or Sin City. There are thousands of works out there that make references to norse mythology. K1Bond007 06:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly with K1Bond007. There's no indication that Max Payne was particularly influenced by Sin City; frankly, I think this talk of a resemblance between Max and Dwight is, uh, kinda far-fetched at best (...they look similar? Dwight? Max? I don't see it. Seriously. And in any case, Max is based on the game's writer, so any similarity, imagined or not, is pretty much guaranteed to be coincidental.) As for the Norse mythology, you might as well say that the Mighty Thor was an influence... especially as Sin City does not in fact contain a lot in the way of Norse mythology; the fact that Dwight calls Gail his "valkyrie" doesn't count any more than calling something a Herculean effort infuses that something with a strong element of Greek mythology. Sure, Max Payne and Sin City share certain superficial similarities, but that does not mean that one is influenced by the other. -- Captain Disdain 07:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Check out this classic Dark Justice concept art. It looks quite a bit like Dwight. But I will continue researching for harder evidence. -- Hardgoodbye 09:02, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, well, I wouldn't be in a great hurry to base any arguments on concepts that not only clearly didn't make it in the final game but, in my opinion, aren't indicative of much of anything except the fact that we can all be thankful for the fact that Remedy didn't use it. =) (And, uh, what's so Dwight about that, anyway? It's a guy with a gun, wearing a trenchcoat -- that puts us about re hip-deep in cliché -- done not only in bright colors but in a style that is just about completely different from what Miller uses in Sin City.) Honestly (and I mean no offense), you're really barking up the wrong tree here. -- Captain Disdain 09:26, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Let me also point out Wikipedia:No original research. Make sure you can cite a source. K1Bond007 19:33, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

as someone might already might had pointed out, Sin City is hardly an original piece. Sure, for our times the comic by Frank Miller looks rather original, but in the comic world, Sin City falls into a genre. Its a good comic, but it shares a lot with other pulp comics and a lot of Chandler novels. If you look down on any comicbook store, chances are that youll find a dozen of comics that might fall on the same description of Sin City.

Lack of citation.

Under the Max Payne 3 heading, there's the line: "Perhaps the reason to this is that the original development crew, Remedy Entertainment is not going to continue working with the Max Payne franchise."

Is there any source for that information? I know Remedy is working on Alan Wake at this time, but I hadn't heard about them not working on Max Payne 3 in the future. Which also ties in with the following line: "Although the original creators of Max Payne have disbanded..."

Another statement I hadn't heard before that has no outside verification. As far as I can tell, Sam Lake is still working for Remedy, developing Alan Wake (and he's the only developer from the Max Payne series whose name I can remember). I can't tell if this information is true or not. I'm willing to accept it, but I don't see any mention of this on Remedy's page (which itself could use some improvements).

Any further information on this issue would be greatly appreciated. ZJVavrek 06:10, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, the original creators of Max Payne have most certainly not disbanded -- Remedy Entertainment is still in existence, and they are indeed working working on Alan Wake. (I'll edit the article accordingly.) Remedy isn't a huge company; they employ 25 game developers, and since they're doing Alan Wake right now, they just don't have the manpower to develop another game at the same time.

Also, seeing as Remedy obviously can't make a new Max Payne game without the approval of the current copyright holders, it would make sense to assume that unless the owners of the franchise (that would be Take Two) specifically announce that Remedy is developing the third game in the series, they're not doing it -- and whenever Max Payne 3 has been mentioned by the publisher, Remedy's name has been conspicious in its absence. Personally, I kind of doubt the Remedy guys have any great urge to return to that franchise, but that's obviously just speculation on my part. -- Captain Disdain 23:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Max Payne: Payne & Redemption

Please note that I removed the entire section the short film Max Payne: Payne & Redemption for a number of reasons. First, it was pure advertising, plain and simple. Second, the info- which had been its own article- was unanimously deleted via AfD (though it technically wasn't "unanimous", as someone involved with the film wanted the article kept), and nobody moved to merge the info into this article. Third, the short's title gets a grand total of 64 unique Google hits, almost all of which come from message board postings or Wikipedia mirrors. (And, FYI, spelling the title with an "and" instead of an "&" gives 17 unique hits.) The film is completely and utterly non-notable, and this article should focus on the game and other things officially related to it. -- Kicking222 19:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Load speeds

Article reads "This problem was often compounded by the extremely long load times for each level."

I remember playing this game when it first came out, and I recall level load times being fairly long, but quickload times (which is the "problem" being referred to) within the same level taking a matter of seconds.

Has anyone actually experienced slow quickload times, or is it safe to remove that comment? Riotgear 06:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I haven't experienced any slow load times at all. ToJPhantom 08:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

'Gameplay' section

At the end of this section is says there is no further content to unlock with harder difficulty.

However there is a post on the A.wake BB [2] that says if you clock the game on 'Dead on Arrival' Mona Sax survives at the end - which expains her appearance in the sequel. Can anyone confirm this? Ethikos 08:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

If you beat Max Payne 2 on the hardest difficulty she does survive, however in the first game, no matter the difficulty, she isnt seen again after her supposed death Canada2k8 16:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia Section

(The prologue of chapter 2...bubbles with text in them.) This bit of trivia is incorrect. You don't pick up a phone to trigger these cut scenes, you pick up a letter that has his wife's handwriting on it. (ToJPhantom 20:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC))

Plot

The plot section is way too long, it doesn't need to be a complete walk through of the story. BillPP ^(Talk) 17:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The prologue of chapter 2 triva?

Is that bit really triva?Not like it was hidden or anything, it was just a part of the game.

Knightmare