Talk:Hammerspace

Washuu's Hammerspace & Tenchi Muyo

I'd have to say that that is one that really deserves a listing here as it is an explicit reference and even called "Hammerspace" in the series. One of the few times that Hammerspace is actually called Hammerspace in the series itself. Washuu is first seen pulling items out of nowhere in such a fashion, and disappears regularly, later it is revealed that she actually has a complete secret laboratory & workplace in the Hammerspace.

-nnx

Lum and Hammerspace

I haven't seen every single episode of Urusei Yatsura, so I'm hesitant to change thing, but I've never seen Lum pull anything out of Hammerspace. She tends to rely on her own natural powers of electrocution to punish men she gets mad at. Shinobu has done so, maybe it should be changed to her?

I own the entire manga series, although the books are not with me at the moment. While not 100% sure that Lum has NEVER pulled any large weaponry out from nowhere, I don't think she makes a good example at all.

In fact, a hammer out of hammerspace is best associated with Ataru in this story. Shinobu uses mainly classroom desks as both her melee and missle weapon. Although sometimes seen physically carrying his sword before he draws, Mendo stores his katana in this hammerspace just as often. I seem to remember scenes in which Benten and Ran teleport in heavy firearms, too.

All in all, if a character does not usually fight bare-handed, s/he would frequently make use of this hammerspace through out the series. Unfortunately, Lum just falls into the other category. Pthow 06:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. Hammerspace seems to be the same extra dimension where immortals in the Highlander universe keep their swords. RickK 20:50, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

• Sighs* I don't know, it could use some wikification (?). --Merovingian 10:35, Jan 2, 2004 (UTC)

This should probably be combined with Hammertime into a Hammer space-time continuum article, as soon as references to the appropriate research articles are found; I believe Stephen Hawkman (who also has no article yet!) has written a whole book on it. I'll look into it this weekend. Oh, and to RickK: yours is a common misconception; the Highlander swords actually come from plot holes (objects so dense that common sense cannot escape them) which Hawkman also writes about. His theory that plot holes may emit obfuscation has met with great critical acclaim among physicists. --JRM 14:46, 2004 Sep 17 (UTC)

Did you mean Stephen Hawking? --Miles 19:21, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)

Hammertime does not appear to be a dimension. -Litefantastic 00:57, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think that wooshing noise was a joke flying over your head. :) --Steven Fisher 09:42, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Hammer space-time continuum? Is that where he gets the parachute pants from? I believe Albert Einstein did some work on this and came up with E=MC^HAMMER. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 17:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken, sir! E clearly equals MC^Hawking

Whoever removed the Hammertime quote has some issues with humor. I put it back in. Cougar Draven 22:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge with magic satchel?

I think this article should be merged with magic satchel and expanded to talk more about the general concept of cartoon characters producing things from or sending things to thin air. For example, Wile E. Coyote will frequently produce signs saying "Help!" or "Oh no!" from nowhere. Conversely, when Optimus Prime transforms, his trailer just sort of disappears into nowhere land. And then there's Mary Poppin's magic bagÉ Anyhow it's a broad topic, so it might be cool to expand the scope a little. --Carl 03:13, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

That's an interesting idea that I like. Hammerspace isn't a great term for it However, I think magic satchell should have more obvious cartoon/gaming sections. --Steven Fisher 06:43, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

No! The underlying concept is the same, but the connotations are different. -Litefantastic 16:29, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

I like the idea of combining it into one article but don't know if magic satchell is the right term to use. I don't have a better option, though....[cartoon space-time]? Maybe not....NoahB 19:32, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Leave unmerged. The Magic Satchel is more for carrying items and weapons in RPGs. Hammerspace is in manga and generally for comedic effect. I have to concur with whoever added the cleanup tag though --TexasDex 05:46, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

I think the main difference between the Magic Satchel and Hammerspace is that the Magic Satchel is an actual physical thing, such as The Luggage from Discworld, or D&D's Bag of Holding, and is special in itself and accessible to anybody, while Hammerspace is a distortion in space, traditionally entered by reaching behind you. The laws are similar but the method of use is different. This brings into debate who uses Hammerspace and who uses a Magic Satchel. --Some Girl called Harley.

No, the Magic Satchel is a bag containing Hammerspace, if you wish to be accurate about it. I'm quoting my friend Shimbozy on this one. Cougar Draven 22:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... Makes sense. (edits) Some Girl Called Harley.

Error in how to carry katana

As a practitioner of the Japanese sword, I must express that the carrying of the katana on the back was NOT the 'normal' way to do it. Most Japanese swordschools carried the katana on the left hip, with edge upwards to faciliate quick drawing of the sword (iaijutsu).

Carrying the sword on the back is simply not too practical, especially for a horseman.

I also noticed that error. Someone should remove the offending segment. I'll do it.

The Matrix

I don't really care one way or the other -- some other guy was the one who first added the Matrix comment to this article -- but it is interesting that the movie is so obvious about its Hammerspace-like qualities. Bugs Bunny just grabs anvils from behind his back, RPG characters just happen to all wear truck-sized satchels, but in the Matrix, we actually get to see the storage room, the martial arts center, etc. It's kind of like the difference between traditional magicians, who don't show you how the trick is done, and Penn & Teller. Mareino 19:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

If the Matrix counts as hammerspace, so does any cyberspace. Neo doesn't pull anything out of the Matrix; they're all imaginary toys in an imaginary world. Training is not part of any Hammerspace I've seen generally agreed to be a Hammerspace. --Prosfilaes 19:41, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe not the Matrix itself or the training program but the "loading program" which Neo and Trinity go into when they arm up before going to free Morpheus. Skiny-boy says to the operator "We're going to need guns. Lots of guns." At which point the walk-in closet of David Koresh comes sliding up on either side of them like a couple of high-speed trains. Cy4

Perhaps the closet IS Hammerspace. In the film the guns are computer programs, but it's like they're telling you "This is where your mallet/potion goes when you put it away," or "This is where your backpack leads." --Some Girl Called Harley.

No, no, no, no, NO! There are no Hammerspace references in the Matrix. At most, the construct takes place in Hammerspace, but that's stretching it. And I don't like stretching it. Once again quoting Shimbozy, Hammerspace is when you pull a quarter from behind a kid's ear. The construct is like walking into a closet filled with whatever you want it to be. Like a unlimited genie wish in the form of a closet. Cougar Draven 22:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Hammerspace in non-animated movies

Don't forget the originator of Hammerspace in non-animated films: Harpo Marx could pull a hammer, horn, or cup of coffee out of his coat or even out of thin air.

Golden Age

It's also common in Golden and Silver age comic books.

Batman and Green Arrow were both notorious for pulling things out of nowhere, and in the 60's Batman show, he once pulled a live fish out from his belt.

Technically, and once again Shimbozy in here (he's apparently too lazy to log in and find this himself), those are small Magic Satchels. Cougar Draven 22:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Highlander!

Does Hammerspace have any connection with Duncan MacLeod's ability to pull a sword out of his hip pocket?

After discussing with Shimbozy, I'm gonna have to say no to that. In terms of actual definition, Hammerspace is a dimensional rift, such as can be found in places like the Bermuda Triangle and Canada, and it is obstructed in some way, and the Magic Satchel is just a container of Hammerspace, and not Hammerspace itself. Since he is pulling it out of his hip pocket, he is not reaching into Hammerspace (i.e. behind his back), but into a Magic Satchel container of Hammerspace. Magic Satchels can only contain a limited amount of Hammerspace. Like the 99-Potion limit in Pokemon or Final Fantasy. Shimbozy and I do dispute this, so he will likely aruge his opinion within the next day or so. And by "or so", I mean whenever he feels like it. Cougar Draven 22:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

too much game descriptions

There is too much game description in "hammerspace in games". Many, many games can be considered using"hammerspace". Citing them individually will make the article too big, and dont add anything to it. I just left some that serves as genre examples (fps, adventures, etc...).

SSPecteR 01:02, 21 March 2006

---

What he said, though a bit louder. --Kizor 18:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I trimmed the list today. Someone else can reinstate really notable examples if they like, or trim further, but there's no sense in that section being longer than the rest of the article combined. -- nae'blis _(talk) 03:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Transformers

I contend that Optimus Prime's trailer deserves mention. -Etafly

As with Etafly, I agree with the comment regarding Optimus Prime's trailer, but find it to be the most extreme example of the Transformers using Hammerspace in the 1984-1987 cartoon (and its Japanese spinoffs). While Rodimus Prime's trailer (in toy form) should also qualify him for the Optimus example, he has only been shown transforming to vehicle mode in this way twice (the first being his first transformation in The Transformers: The Movie's closing scenes). On a minor level, any Transformer who carried weapons in robot mode, yet had no place on their persons to carry them in alternate modes (such as Jazz, an unarmed race car, transforming into a robot while whipping an unseen rifle from behind his back) had access to hammerspace (originally called sub-space by the Transformers fan community). This example is generally compared to each robot's action figure, and where -- if at all -- weapons were stored on it. Dreamwave Productions attempted to resolve the hidden weapon issue in their Generation 1 comic series by showing Optimus Prime ejecting an collapsable/expandable rifle from his back into waiting right hand. Among the few Transformers not to be shown (frequently) using this practice were the Decepticon planes (whose weapons merely transferred from their wings to their arms) and the Targetmasters (whose weapons were carried externally in both modes, when not transformed into exo-suit wearing humanoids). -Cybertronian

Congratulations!

I would just like to take a moment of my time to thank the Wikipedia contributors for putting together the funniest article I've read in a long time. Keep up the good work! Ppk01 17:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I do think that the comparison to peanut butter jelly time stretches the joke at the end too far, but invoking the "postulates of the theory of relativity" in comparing Hammerspace to Hammertime is brilliant. --Kizor 20:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Peanut butter jelly time is a little silly, but among with Hammerspace/Hammertime it goes pretty well with the feel of this article. Too many people think that adding ANY humour to Wikipedia will turn it into Uncyclopedia. Atzel 16:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

On the "Hammertime" thing. Allow me to thank you for leaving that in. It meshes with the feel of the subject and the entry and makes it worth reading. 24.48.159.136 02:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Stargate

In the movie, and expounded upon in the TV shows, those who enter the Stargate first pass into a kind of higher dimension before being compressed and sent through the wormhole. Could this be considered a form of Hammerspace as well? --Savantster 19:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I think you've misunderstood the subject of the article. It relates to how fictional characters can procure either oversized or unlikely objects out of nothing. What is discribed in Stargate sounds more like a "pocket dimension"... which there isn't an article for, currently. Instead it re-routes to Plane_(Dungeons_&_Dragons). Atzel 19:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

references

although hammerspace is "fan envisioned", there must be some written references to it on blogs, fansites, etc. Unless you're telling me that this is a neologism that only exists verbally- which would make its credibilty cut by half.

and to clarify what i mean about references.... i don't mean usage, because that by itself does not imply anything. there needs to be actual outside research (not compiled by wikipedians to be placed straight here) done by someone who has gathered the info and made his or her own conclusions. Wikipedia is not a research site

and i'm only talking about the first 3 paragraphs. the rest seems excessive in talking about simply "related" stuff. that's just irrelevent imo. Blueaster 03:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Point. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] --Kizor 09:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

EXCELLENT! :)

Now, we have to think about what to use, and where... Blueaster 02:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

This, too. [7] --Kizor 17:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Why hasn't this been deleted?

This article is completely asinine. Why hasn't it been deleted because of the no original research policy? Or the fact that it's competely unencyclopedic? Do the authors honestly think animation writers think of this as some sort of "theory"? It's like having a detailed medical article on the exaggerately large eyes and tiny noses of anime characters. Do you want to know what "hammerspace" is? Durr, it's COMEDY. End of article. If someone would like to justify why this should exist as an article, please do so. Otherwise I'll propose it for deletion. The most "hammerspace" deserves is perhaps a small mention on the cartoon physics page, at best. --Marcg106 01:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

• Please see the above section. If none of those references meet your criteria, then you'd probably be okay moving foreward. -Litefantastic 01:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

maybe this article's not within WP guidelines after all...

From Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms

"Neologisms that are in wide use — but for which there are no treatments in secondary sources — are not yet ready for use and coverage in Wikipedia. They may be in time, but not yet. The term does not need to be in Wikipedia in order to be a "true" term, and when secondary sources become available it will be appropriate to create an article on the topic or use the term within other articles.

An editor's personal observations and research (e.g. finding blogs and books that use the term) are insufficient to support use of (or articles on) neologisms because this is analysis and synthesis of primary source material (which is explicitly prohibited by the original research policy). To paraphrase Wikipedia:No original research: If you have research to support the inclusion of a term in the corpus of knowledge that is Wikipedia, the best approach is to arrange to have your results published in a peer-reviewed journal or reputable news outlet and then document your work in an appropriately non-partisan manner."

Blueaster 04:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The article is notable.

• ggl:hammerspace 23200 GHits
• ggl:hammerspace -wikipedia 16200 GHits

I have seen articles kept on 500 GHits. --DavidHOzAu 01:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

that is not my point. wikipedia should only contain information already published somewhere else. the fact that this article is the top google result says something about this term's actual documentation versus the significance that WP is artificially giving it.

Wikipedia shouldn't be popularizing neologisms or contain editor's observations and conclusions, it should give verifiable information from reliable sources that are then cited. Blueaster 02:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

So the problem is actually that the article doesn't seem to have many references? Then look it up and fix it!

My personal opinion is that this is not a neologism because I am quite sure that "Hammerspace" was in use before Wikipedia got off the ground. I think I first heard of it in an anime, (I've forgotten the name, there were so many I watched at the time,) which would have been about five or so years ago when I last watched anime of any sort. The article is younger than that; I do not see any propagation of a neologism taking place. --DavidHOzAu 13:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Age doesn't matter. A neologism is a word that's coined by a person. It doesn't matter if Hammerspace was invented last year or 10 years ago. What matters is that we should only rely on verifiable information from secondary sources, which would be very hard to do if all that exists of Hammerspace is primary sources on the word. Neologisms can spread very rapidly and become accepted much earlier than secondary sources can document them. Blueaster 23:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe that there are some references in a section above. The talk pages of Wikipedia:Attribution also has some interesting comments about what constitutes a reliable source.

Sorry I hadn't gotten around to reply to you earlier, it's been a busy month. --DavidHOzAu 06:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, this should work. AnimeInfo's Anime Physics 101 Lesson 4. I've got a soft spot for this article. Cougar Draven 02:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Various Shtuffs

I've added Original Research templates to the Hammerspace in Games section and the Similar Concepts section.

I've done this because these sections are obviously based off of editors' opinions, observations, and analyses.

Unless you can come up with a source, we definately have to get rid of those sections.

Besides, "Hammerspace" is purely an anime fandom term, and so we have to keep it strictly in the context of anime fandom. The "see also" is good enough for similar concepts.

And based off of my above argument, I suggest we get rid of "The Toon role-playing game refers to this space as the back pocket."

sorry for being such an a$$, but I really want this article to be really good. I'm thinking of even adding a picture to this, or maybe asking the creator of 8 Bit Theatre to allow a pic of WM smashing BM on this article. Blueaster 02:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Eega Beeva's pants

When I first read this article, I was reminded of Eega Beeva's pants. However, I'm not adding it to keep the article less cluttered. --ZeroOne (talk | @) 12:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

And I'm grateful for that. --Kizor 13:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

seriously..

"Hammerspace should not be confused with Hammertime." o_O i somehow dont think this belongs.. perhaps in WP:BAD but not here.. lol.. Plough | talk to me 23:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

i agree. unless someone can logically argue for its inclusion, i say we delete this and KEEP IT OUT FOR GOOD (meaning, stop reverting it back, you losers) Blueaster 03:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I disagree. I think that it's part of the core that makes the article worth reading. And it makes sense, when you actually think about it. Cougar Draven 02:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Pardon me but, what exactly IS "hammertime"? I've checked some links on wiki but I still don't see what "hammertime" has to do with "hammerspace"... Unless, of course, you refer to the instances where hammerspace is used to produce a mallet as "hammertimes", but I consider that to be a little farfetched.

There is no relationship between the two, which is why it shouldn't really be mentioned (other than a phonetic similarity, but I think they're too dissimilar to include the header). Virog^{It's not}_{my fault!} 03:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the bit of humor and the comparison isn't inappropriate as time and space are usually related =) Kail Ceannai 00:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I recently made some research on the "Cartoon physics" page and I actually found some interesting statements there that would make the exsistance of a "hammertime & space continiuum" highly plausible. According to the article, 2 requirements must be met before a toon can break the laws of physics... 1: It has to be funnier than if it didn't break the laws of physics (hammerspace matches this category). 2: Precise timing (if a toon relied on hammerspace to solve all of his/her problems, it would with time get predictable and booring, canceling the effect of the first requirement). With these two requirements in mind, it seems like a toon has to consider timing about as much as action, in this case, hammerspace, which would create a sort of "hammertime", IE. certain times when hammerspace is even aviable for the toon in question, highly limiting it's use of hammerspace to make the times when the toon refrains to hammerspace to be as enjoyable and comical as possible... The above is just a heap of speculations and theories, brought to you by: 5 marshmallows and a hot cup of chocolate.