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The art of reasoning is a gift...

Seemingly shortsighted edit

Visioncurve: Hello! I would like to make a friendly but strong criticism of a recent edit you made. You recently made what I would see as a short-sighted and extremely destructive edit to the Zhetysu page: [1]. In my view, people that read books need to be able to search for these alternate names and spellings online because books from the 19th and 20th century used these terms. In the 19th and 20th centuries, they were using names we don't use as much today. If you take away this knowledge from Wikipedia wholesale like you did, then people today who read those outdated materials won't be able to successfully figure out what the geographical terms that they are looking at mean if they Google them. Now- if you want to move all this kind of information into a 'Name' section, by all means, feel free to do that. However, I sincerely recommend that you never do anything like that ever again, and further suggest that if you have done something like that on other pages, you might want to consider reverting your edits as soon as you can or just move the information into new 'Name' or 'Etymology' sections on those pages (usually the first section of an article- see Taipei for an example). Hopefully you can see that I'm just trying to look out for the long-term value of encyclopaedia to the readers and this is not by any means an attack against you personally. Thanks for your work and thanks for your time reading this. Geographyinitiative (talk) 07:10, 26 April 2020 (UTC) (modified)[reply]

Hi i just wanted to know is this message for me ? Because the edit you mentioned in the link is not mine ! Kami2018 (talk) 07:12, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kami2018: No- sorry for pinging you. Geographyinitiative (talk) 07:14, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You must be kidding me, Geographyinitiative. Have you read that article yourself or you are just a second IP of Kami2018, who is simply hanging around among Turkic-related articles? What's the need to write the name of one region 70 times in different languages and as many as 4 times in Russian Cyrillics in English Wikipedia? Believe me, as a reader I got bored when I got to the third line of the article, though I was truly interested in the article because we had a small conflict regarding that area as it is considered as a motherland of the Oghuz Turks by some. And please, keep your subjective views away from me and refrain from using strong words such as "extremely destructive"!!! You got your warning and have a nice day. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 03:47, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You ask "what's the need". The need is that some people have used words and spellings to describe this area that may not be popular or in common use today, and we want people who read those books to be able to google to the correct information. Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:55, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Trust me, google it anyhow and you will instanly find all the "Zhetysus" that are out there. There are other dumb reasons behind this and both of us know that really well. As someone who seems to give importance to the above-mentioned article, and instead of vigorously arguing about simple edits, you should spend you time on making that article much more free-flowing, and appealing to the eye. As I said, I couldn't finish reading the article as it had relatively poor structure and was seemingly translated from Russian. Consider this! --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 04:13, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am working on nearby Xinjiang and only incidentally saw this removal of what I would see as precious information. Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:30, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally saw?? So you imply that you click every time on a history section of each article you visit by chance to see what "precious" information has recently been removed? Seriously? That was a "shortsighted" reply from you. By the way, the fact that you see that information as precious counts for nothing, because first of all, it may be only your subjective opinion, second - it's an unsourced material and according to Wikipedia guidelines, should be challenged or even removed. So, I guess it would be better to stop wasting each other's time and for you to start expanding the article (if it's that vital for you) through creating a new section about etymology of Semirechye, where you'll have an opportunity to write all the "interesting" spelling varieties of Zhetisu. End of discussion. Thanks --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 06:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kami2018 and Visioncurve: Given my recent edits on the page, it is manifestly obvious that the name for this region has various spellings. Geographyinitiative (talk) 10:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


@Visioncurve: Please be respectful while you mention me. You are not some sort of owner of Wikipedia who will tell me what to do and what not to do. I see what agenda you follow and please be respectful. If you dont stop i will surely report you and your unreferenced reverts. Please discuss on the Talk page of a particular article instead of giving your personal opinions. And please you should not be concerned if i get a barnstar or not.Kami2018 (talk) 23:31, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Unreferenced reverts? Give us at least one example where I contributed original research or an unsourced material to any article of Wikipedia! And don't play games out there hiding in the shadows, @Geographyinitiative: may not know what kind of person you are, she is new to this, but we both know your personality, intentions and acts of vandalism, don't we?--VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 04:19, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kami2018 and Visioncurve: Please just make the encyclopedia. There is no need to make friends or make enemies. Include all perspectives and all information you can. If you want to challenge something, challenge it. Everything else is silly my friends. Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:26, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know proper math? 3% does not equate to 1 million people but rather 250,000-300,000. 1 million Turkmens in Afghanistan is totally wrong because that would mean they are 8% which they are not! Akmal94 (talk) 13:14, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest you answer to the above math question yourself. Type in the Google searchbox: How to calculate percentage of a number and you will find out that 3% of 32,225,560 is approximately 1,100,000. You should think carefully of what you are about to say or you will end up looking funny. Hasty climbers have sudden falls. Cheers, --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 13:32, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is evidence that Turkmens are around 300,000 to 500,000 in Afghanistan; https://swedishcommittee.org/afghanistan/population Akmal94 (talk) 22:58, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Visioncurve: I know how much contribution you are making to the Wikipedia. Better not get personal with me. Show me reference in relation to this revert of yours [[2]]
Not get personal with you? Sounds really interesting, @Kami2018:, however I don't have an inch of time for this. You know what, I'd like to hastily reveal to you one pretty obvious secret - I don't want to have anything with you. Just stay away from me and everybody's happy. As per those "much-needed" sources that should support my opinion that Afshari is not a language but simply Azerbaijani dialect, you may wish to check these -
  • https://www.ethnologue.com/language/azb,
  • "Afghanistan Foreign Policy and Government Guide"; p. 172
  • "Ahmad Hasan Dani, Vadim Mikhaĭlovich Masson, Unesco, History of Civilizations of Central Asia: Development in contrast : from the sixteenth to the mid-nineteenth century; p. 724: Afshari (a variant of Azarbaijani still spoken by the Afshars in a village that is now part of northern suburb of Kabul)
  • Fascicle 3. — VIII. Azeri Turkish (author G. Doerfer), pp. 245–248. Encyclopaedia Iranica. Volume III: Atas-Bayhaqi, Zahir-Al-Din. Edited by Ehsan Yarshater. New York: Bibliotheca Persica Press, 1989, 896 pages. ISBN 9780710091215  :Azeri dialects. We may distinguish the following Azeri dialects (see Širäliev, 1941 and 1947): (1) eastern group: Derbent (Darband), Kuba, Shemakha (Šamāḵī), Baku, Salyani (Salyānī), and Lenkoran (Lankarān), (2) western group: Kazakh (not to be confounded with the Kipchak-Turkic language of the same name), the dialect of the Ayrïm (Āyrom) tribe (which, however, resembles Turkish), and the dialect spoken in the region of the Borchala river; (3) northern group: Zakataly, Nukha, and Kutkashen; (4) southern group: Yerevan (Īravān), Nakhichevan (Naḵjavān), and Ordubad (Ordūbād); (5) central group: Ganja (Kirovabad) and Shusha; (6) North Iraqi dialects; (7) Northwest Iranian dialects: Tabrīz, Reżāʾīya (Urmia), etc., extended east to about Qazvīn; (8) Southeast Caspian dialect (Galūgāh). Optionally, we may adjoin as Azeri (or “Azeroid”) dialects: (9) East Anatolian, (10) Qašqāʾī, (11) Aynallū, (12) Sonqorī, (13) dialects south of Qom, (14) Kabul Afšārī.
  • Azerbaijani language, Big Soviet Encyclopedia (in Russian), 3rd edition [in 30 vol]/chief editor A.M.Prokhorov — 3rd edition, published by Soviet Encyclopedia, 1969—1978.
  • A. Bodrogligeti, "On the Turkish vocabulary of the Isfahan Anonymous" Acta Orientalia Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae; Vol. 21, No. 1 (1968), pp. 15-43; Akadémiai Kiadó
  • A. Bodrogligeti On the Turkish vocabulary of the Isfahan Anonymous//Acta Orientalia Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae Vol. 21, No. 1 (1968), pp. 15-43.—Akadémiai Kiadó: To Qashqay and Aynallu Ligeti adds Afshar as another Azeri dialect posessing long vowels, as distinct elements of the sound system.
  • A.M.Abbasov Some notes on afshars of Afghanistan (in Russian), Soviet Turcology, 1975. № 4. p. 72.
  • Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East. — С. 708
  • Hasan Kawun Kakar. Government and Society in Afghanistan: The Reign of Amir ‘Abd al-Rahman Khan
  • A. M. Kaya, "Avşar Türkmenleri"

I have poured through a host of primary and secondary materials not to quench your thirst but to add reference to the relevant articles in case if someone has similar doubts. Have fun checking the above sources. Cheers ---VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 03:57, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copy Edit - Tuqaq


Tuqaq

Hello:

I just wanted to let you know that a second copy edit has now been completed of the article Tuqaq.

Your GOCE request has now been completed and closed.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 14:15, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attacks

Hi, just wanted to let you know that the next time you make baseless accusations/random attacks (whether its against me or somebody else) I'll have you reported. Good day. HistoryofIran (talk)

I will do the same. Good day. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 05:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please show some examples of me doing the same then? HistoryofIran (talk)
Could you please not start this all over again and pass the buck on me? It all started with the Samanid Empire and should have ended there. I clearly saw there that you were not a person with whom one should hang out for an objective and fruitful discussion as your nationalism and relevant motives were pretty obvious. Afterwards, I hoped our roads would not cross again, but many thanks go to the user - Sasan hero... Perhaps I gotta learn to lighten up a bit, but you have to learn the following: With an excessive, immoderate and inappropriate praise of your people or nation, you risk making them look funny...
I think we should end our "collaboration" here, 'cause it's really getting under my skin. Be well and stay safe --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 06:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So you have no proof, and you proceed to make more baseless accusations. HistoryofIran (talk)
Actually, when someone wishes you staying healthy and safe, you should show at least some gratitude towards that person. I suggest you learn some manners first. Secondly, I don't have an inch of time for this and oh well, if someone needs proofs, he/she should proceed to the Samanid Empire's talk page (where you tried to make fun of me and hush me, but got a complete surprise instead) --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 06:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, the burden is on you to support claims you make — otherwise, it's an aspersion. Please don't delegate that responsibility to others. Either do your due diligence, or say nothing. Exchanges of gratitude, while encouraged, are not required. One may edit in a purely matter-of-fact tone or otherwise as they see fit, so long as they adhere to policy. An area where you need to improve in. El_C 10:40, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Warning

Stop icon

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.--Kansas Bear (talk) 05:58, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. It's always sweet to meet good old friends... I knew that you, Louis Aragon and the one mentioned above had a sort of a tripartite act. I just hope I'm not the only one who knows that. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 06:32, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ANI notice

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. HistoryofIran (talk) 06:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 2020

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 36 hours for harassment. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.
If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

El_C 10:15, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Visioncurve (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I call upon neutral, dispassionate and disinterested admins to make a thorough investigation of this matter. El_C haven't even checked deleted posts of HistoryofIran's talk page which prove my point about his bias towards non-Iranian stuff. I also would like to start a campaign of stripping El_C of his blocking rights that he so hastily used without any thorough and objective investigation

Decline reason:

This unblock request is a continuation of the behavior that got you blocked. Unblock requests containing attacks on other editors will not be considered. Acroterion (talk) 12:11, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Thank you. Frankly, I expected that. Therefore, I 'm taking my cause to Arbcom. And El_C, would you just check your own talk page and find posts that contain words about or from HistoryofIran? Even your talk page consists of arguments and facts stating that HistoryofIran was publishing things randomly to promote "Iranian stuff" and you agreed there with that. That user reverted my edits that perhaps went against his views and nationalistic ideals and started edit-warring with me. Will anyone impartial enough just check that me or anyone brave enough admit that not everyone has equal rights here? I guess when HistoryofIran started this, he thought that he would hush me easily, perhaps El_C thought like that as well, when he blocked me in a New York minute (though I thought that it took days to investigate). However, I'm taking this to the end and eventually justice will prevail, as it always does. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 13:58, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what you're talking about. Again, if you can't be bothered providing diffs, it's best you don't bother at all. El_C 14:58, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest you not tell me what to do. Actually, it's you who should have been bothered as it's your direct responsibility as an admin to conduct an impartial investigation. Conflict arose because of only two articles: Samanid Empire and Afsharid dynasty; was it that difficult for you to check the talk pages and history section of these articles? With regard to your own talk page where there are numerous examples of similar problems with HistoryofIran: "Answer: LouisAragon, HistoryofIran are actively trying to remove any Armenian reference from Ancient History related Wikipedia pages, those 5 "reliable sources" you are talking about..." dated 28 April,2020 and of your "friendly" relations with HistoryofIran: "Hi El C... You get a big cheeky kiss on your cheek from me for helping with that issue earlier...(Dated October 6, 2019). What was that? I learned that you blocked every editor he had asked you to, and everyone can check that in your talk page. And after all this, was there the slightest chance for me to win my case? Nope. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 06:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Welp, a "neutral, dispassionate and disinterested admin" has reviewed your request. Please deal with your own behavior. Please do not attempt to shift blame onto others. Please identify the behavior that led to your block and how you would proceed differently. Cheers, --Deep fried okra User talk:Deepfriedokra 08:45, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

UTRS 30434

#30434 was submitted on 2020-05-05 10:55:09 . This review is now closed. --Deep fried okra User talk:Deepfriedokra 08:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Were you really impartial? Have you been so kind and checked the talk pages I was talking about here for the whole 2 days. I don't think so. Thanks though. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 11:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nationalism and behavioral issues by HistoryofIran

Deepfriedokra, El_C, I am pretty much sure that you did not make a single effort to visit the talkpages I had identified above for different reasons. I still have the blues because of that, and I admit that HistoryofIran simply aced this debate (well, he's been longer here). I am relatively new to WP and may not have a complete grasp of everything here, but I do have my heart in the right place although I am obviously bitterly unhappy about the outcome. I'm going to work through things very carefully, but if there's still someone who thinks that I'm shifting blame onto others, or falsely accused or attacked someone, then check the following (I pulled an all-nighter to finish this): HistoryofIran blamed me of false accusations when I claimed that he had distorted history to glorify his people and country in support of his nationalistic ideals. First of all, I have never made a single false accusation in my whole life, and I insist that this time is no different. I have already taken my cause to the Arbcom, but I would also like to share the following complaints and similar accusations directed at HistoryofIran from random editors. Please, do not give it the cold shoulder:

There are many more, but I simply grew tired of copy-pasting and linking them. Apart from these complaints, countless of talkpages of numerous articles consist of similar accusations, just check his contributions and proceed to those articles.

Behavioral issues by HistoryofIran

Here are examples where I was initially provoked by HistoryofIran and blamed of a personal attack that had not even taken place:

I hope other admins and Arbcom will check them, though I will post all of the above in Administrators' noticeboard after my block expires in order to gain full public rehabilitation. I did not make a false accusation as my contributions were clearly edited because of his nationalistic ideals, nor did I attack him - I simply responded accordingly. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 11:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many of these comments are simply baseless accusations (two of them are just a normal comments, huh? one them being part of a longer discussion) just like yours, taken completely out of context. Three of the users who posted these comments have been banned for a reason. Once again, please elaborate how this exposes me. Show us that there is ground in the comments of those users.
A personal attack that hadn't even taken place? O rlly? Admit that the template should be at least that of the History of Greater Iran, not History of Iran, that you are promoting for good old reasons. The map of the Empire will tell you the rest of the story (your very first comment towards me) and I would like to draw your precious attention to one ambiguous template vigorously guarded by HisoryofIran, which is "History of Iran" template (suspicious coincidence, uhm). People are welcome to view the full discussion Talk:Samanid Empire. And your ANI case as well, where there are loads of examples of your behaviour, including the comments you posted there [3].
The phrase "vigorously guarded" and a simple question whether you were promoting your ideals through insisting on one particular template you considered as an attack or harassment? Are you serious now or what? I'm screwed. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 12:56, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ASPERSIONS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have provided all the necessary evidence above. And someone should have already blocked you as well: 1)evidence is provided in full 2) you admitted that you should have refrained from using humiliating words directed at me... Well, I am not surprised...--VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 13:20, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Where on earth did I make an attack on him?" [4] You're welcome. I do acknowledge that those two times I should have refrained from using childish/immature when referring to your numerous attacks/accusations, but that's not a personal attack as you claim. And regardless you kept on going with that behaviour (not only against me [5]), which you still aren't acknowledging. You're still accusing me of nonsense without any form of proof. Posting random comments aren't gonna cut it. At this rate your block should be extended for your persistance to keep accusing me of BS. Also, I'm pretty sure what made you get blocked was because you harrassed me Why are you constanly keep deleting ANI notices and uneasy questions from you talk page? They disrupt your reputation of a perfect editor or uncover your bias towards non-Iranian stuff? And that was a question, not a statement, do not attempt to use it out of context as you normally do, please. Have a good day.. Either come with actual proof or leave me alone, this is lowkey a continuation of your harassment. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:04, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You call my every question to or phrase directed at you as harassment. God, I can't believe that.
Moreover, those proofs that I published above were not baseless, I checked each of them thoroughly, proceeded to every relevant article, and found out that you did revert them because of your subjective, nationalistic views (you even changed the word "Armenian" when it was clearly correct, to the word "Iranian" across the whole article). And would you please stop manipulating admins by telling them what to do; I thank God you are not an admin yourself and hope that you will never be wrongfully nominated. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 12:50, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indefinite block

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked temporarily from editing for making legal threats or taking legal action.
You are not allowed to edit Wikipedia while the threats stand or the legal action is unresolved.
If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

Template:Z7 El_C 13:30, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Visioncurve (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

From Wikipedia:No legal threats -- *Rather than immediately blocking users who post apparent threats, administrators should first seek to clarify the user's intention if there is doubt. Blocking for legal threats is generally not such an urgent need that it must be done before determining whether an ambiguous statement was genuinely a threat of legal action. *The Wikipedia community has a long-standing general principle that (almost) anyone is capable of reform. Accordingly, statements made in anger or misjudgment should not be held against people once genuinely and credibly withdrawn. (I have already deleted that statement as it was made in anger)

Accept reason:

As you have withdrawn the legal threat, I have lifted the block. Please understand, this is all but certainly your final chance. Even one more personal attack will result in an indefinite block which nobody will likely lift. I strongly advise you to step back and drop the stick. You have indicated you plan to take your cause to Arbcom and you are welcome to do that (nothing I say here should be taken as advising against that), but other than that, please stop interacting with or commenting about HistoryofIran. Yamla (talk) 10:45, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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