Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Redbird (comics)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Robin (character). Tone 12:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redbird (comics)

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I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant English-language coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded with no helpful rationale (despite the fact that I explicitly asked for one in the PROD). Yet another example that PRODs are vulnerable to abuse. Let's discuss then - can anyone find anything to salvage this? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Yet again, there's nothing in the nomination to distinguish it from the rest of this cookie-cutter bundle. This is a vehicle used by Robin, the boy wonder who has been around for 80 years and so has an extensive history of his own. A quick browse soon turns up details such as its construction in Batman & Robin: The Making of the Movie. Applicable policies include WP:ATD; WP:BEFORE; WP:IMPERFECT; WP:NEXIST; WP:NOTPAPER; WP:PRESERVE and so there is no case for deletion. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:50, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Care to cite from the source? All I see it are few sentences discussing this gadget in passing. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Andrew, applicable policies also include WP:GNG, WP:SIGCOV, and WP:MILL (sources regurgitating the same plot summaries seems pretty run of the mill for fictional topics to me). I haven't done a full search yet, but I'm not seeing much to indicate the other policies are met. Hog Farm _Bacon 14:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - WP:SIGCOV is part of WP:GNG and just a guideline. WP:MILL is just an essay and so is worthless. A policy such as WP:ATD is stronger and more relevant, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page." Improvement is clearly possible as, unlike the nominator, I took the time to find a relevant source. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:58, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - WP:GNG is also a policy, you know. And no, I don't see any sources that allow expansion outside a plot summary. PS. Perhaps someone would care to copy stuff to https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Redbird_(vehicle) ? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - You quote essays and guidelines all the time, so you'll perhaps excuse us taking this with a large grain of salt. How about WP:AGF? Ravenswing 15:31, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - WP:GNG is a guideline and so explicitly admits of exceptions. Insofar as the policy/guideline/essay stuff means anything, it's that policies trump guidelines and I cited a stack of policies. Deletionists only consider GNG because they think it justifies wholesale deletion. It doesn't because the policy WP:ATD usually applies and so improvement/merger is preferable. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Andrew Davidson: This absolutely is not another one of those "cookie-cutter nominations". The reason why the nominations were disruptive beforehand is specifically because certain parties were indiscriminately digging up as many c-class character articles as possible, flooding WP:AFD with a multitude of nominations within a short period of time, copy/pasting invalid rationales like "fails to establish notability" on every one, and (in some case) were actively lying to get articles deleted. That is not what is happening here. Piotrus is following deletion protocol perfectly fine, and is even checking for sources beforehand. If a WP:BEFORE test fails, the onus is on YOU to prove that coverage exists. Dark knight 2149 21:53, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Light Merge/Redirect to Robin (character). The coverage of either version of this vehicle in reliable sources is minimal. Even the coverage in the book that Andrew brings up is, as far as I can see in the preview, limited to two pictures/captions, and one sentence in which it is tangentially mentioned. Tim Drake is the Robin who the vehicle is most closely associated with, but since it also appeared as a motorcycle in Batman and Robin driven by Dick Grayson, the overall main article on Robin would be the more appropriate place to mention it. Rorshacma (talk) 16:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per nom. There's really nothing to merge, multiple possible redirect targets, and I question the title's value as a search term: the "Redbird" disambiguation page, with several dozen entries, shows that. (As to that, the subject's mention on that page is likely all the info that's needed.) Ravenswing 15:31, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 23:44, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Piotrus. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Robin, per Rorshacma. The article does not meet GNG, but merging is a better option than deleting. Rhino131 (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect - Insufficient real world content to justify an article. Being mentioned in a reliable source is not the same as significant coverage in a reliable source. TTN (talk) 21:07, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.