Talk:Book of Daniel

The Book of Daniel and Alexander

Repeated demands have been made on me to provide evidence that the Greek king that conquered Persia was Alexander the Great. I have repeatedly pointed out that there is ONLY ONE Greek king that conquered Persia and that this king was Alexander. Wikipedia policy states that you don't need to provide citations on commonly known facts that should be known to someone with some level of education. Anyone with any kind of knowledge should know that Alexander the Great was the ONLY Greek king that conquered Persia and thus this fact falls under common knowledge.

BUT since you guys insist here are references

1) People who believe the Bible say so

https://www.compellingtruth.org/Alexander-the-Great.html

Is Alexander the Great mentioned in the Bible?

Though Alexander the Great is not mentioned specifically in the Bible, Daniel and Zechariah both prophesied about the rise of the Macedonian Empire out of Greece. Daniel's prophecies are so direct that some scholars have tried to move his historical lifetime closer to Alexander's to explain their accuracy.

2) People who write for university journals say so

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/sou.33.3_4.23725951?journalCode=sou

The Book of Daniel never mentions Alexander by name, but its Christian commentators saw him foretold in ... Chapters 2,7 ans 8

3) Wikipedia already say so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_8#The_ram,_the_he-goat,_the_great_horn_and_the_four_new_horns

The ram, the he-goat, the great horn and the four new horns

The symbols of the ram and he-goat, explained in the text of Daniel 8 as representing the kings of Persia and Greece, are apparently drawn from the constellations that preside over Persia and Syria in Hellenistic astrology.[19] Scholars are agreed that the goat's first horn (the horn which is broken) is Alexander the Great, and the four horns which then arise are the four generals who divided his empire.[20] The detail that the goat does not touch the ground as he attacks the ram may reflect the speed of Alexander's conquest.[21]

4) and according to the Roman historian Josephus even ALEXANDER HIMSELF thought so ... Josephus states that Alexander visited Jerusalem, was shown a copy of the Book and Daniel, and was convinced that the Greek king reference inside was HIMSELF!

https://www.livius.org/sources/content/josephus/jewish-antiquities/alexander-the-great-visits-jerusalem/

Alexander the Great visits Jerusalem - Presumably 11.337 reference the place in the histories of Josephus where the comment below can be found in the William Whiston translation.

[11.337] And when the Book of Daniel was showed him wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended. And as he was then glad, he dismissed the multitude for the present.

Parting comment: Personally if I was on the opposite side of this argument I would feel that I had just stepped into a bucket of poop. Let's see how self aware the opposite side it.71.174.128.111 (talk) 15:27, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

- this IP editor was previously blocked from editing this Talk page - the block notice said, "blocked the IP from Talk space for 72 hours. Next time everyone please ignore him." - Epinoia (talk) 16:06, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Have you yet come to the realization that Alexander the Great was Greek or are you still holding out?71.174.128.111 (talk) 16:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Prophecy of the 70 weeks

I was asked to comment on this by somebody so I looked into at a bit and see no problem with it being an actual FULFILLED prophecy.

but first things first

Currently wikipedia both misrepresent and also leaves a part of the prophecy out which makes it hard to understand.

wikipedia currently

Chronological predictions: Daniel predicts several times the length of time that must elapse until the coming of the Kingdom of God. A prophecy of Jeremiah is reinterpreted so that "70 years" means "70 weeks of years", and the last half of the last "week" is defined as "a time, times, and half a time," then as 2,300 "evenings and mornings," with further numbers of days at the very end of the book.[39]

My Comment: The actual prophecy states that Daniel predicts the coming of an "anointed one" (also known as the Messiah) and not the Kingdom of God!

wikipedia continues

The "anointed one cut off": Daniel 9 makes two references to an "anointed one," which has had major implications for Christian eschatology. Daniel 9:25 says: "Until there is an anointed ruler will be seven weeks"; in the next verse Daniel 9:26 says: "After the sixty-two weeks the anointed one shall be cut off." Scholars take these as references to the high priest Joshua from the early Persian era and to the high priest Onias III, murdered in the 2nd century, but Christians have taken them both to refer to the death of Christ, which then provides a fixed point for calculating the time to the end of the world.[40]

The above text omits a section of the prophecy - the correct text should be as follows - the missing text is capitalized.

Daniel 9:25 says: "Until there is an anointed ruler (or the Messiah) will be seven weeks AND SIXTY TWO WEEKS"; in the next verse Daniel 9:26 says: "After the sixty-two weeks the anointed (or the Messiah) one shall be cut off." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.128.111 (talk) 16:02, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

- this IP editor was previously blocked from editing this Talk page - the block notice said, "blocked the IP from Talk space for 72 hours. Next time everyone please ignore him." - Epinoia (talk) 16:07, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Have you yet come to the realization that Alexander the Great was Greek or are you still holding out?71.174.128.111 (talk) 16:39, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I am using the NASB and similar translation of the Bible - which is why I am grouping the 7 and 62 weeks (of years) time periods.

Daniel 9:25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

The translation used by wikipedia implies TWO anointed ones. One after the first period of 7 weeks (of years) and another after the following 62 weeks (of years period). Thar would certainly confuse anyone trying to figure out the prophecy. The translation I am using implies only one.71.174.128.111 (talk) 18:10, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Prophecy of the 70 weeks explained

From the time when an edict goes out to restore Jerusalem, to the time of the coming of the Messiah is 7 and 62 weeks (of years) or 69 weeks (of years). This is generally taken to mean 483 years (69 times 7).

There are 4 Persian edicts which can be taken as the starting point of this prophecy. Two are for the rebuilding of the Temple, the 3rd for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the 4th an affirmation of the 3rd. The third is therefore the preferred starting point.

This third edict is dated to the 7th year of Artaxerxes who is currently thought to have ruled from 465 to 424 BC. The 7th year of his rule is 458 BC. Adding 483 years to 458 BC bring us to 25 AD. Was there a Messiah preaching an everlasting covenant in Jerusalem in 25 AD? Billions of Christians think so!

The prophecy continues "26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off" There is a period of 7 weeks and then a period of 62 weeks. Two periods that total 69 weeks (of years). After the second period is over (in 25 AD) the Messiah will be "cut off" meaning killed. Was the Messiah preaching in Jerusalem killed at some point after 25 AD. Billions of Christians think so! It's called the Crucifixion!

The Messiah will have a week to preach the covenant during which he will put an end to sacrifices. "27And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." Billions of Christians believe that the Crucifixion put an end to sacrifices and offerings.

Also in Daniel 8:27 is a related prophecy " Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed."

The people reference are the Romans and the prince is Titus, the son of Emperor Vespasian, who destroyed both Jerusalem and the Temple. Once you have the starting date the prophecy is actually easy to decipher.

https://evidenceforchristianity.org/when-was-the-decree-to-restore-and-rebuild-jerusalem-issued-daniel-925/

The third “decree” in Ezra is that of Artaxerxes in Ezra 7:11-28. This is a decree to actually rebuild the city. The decree comes from the seventh year of Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:8). This is somewhere around 458 BC from what we know of Artaxerxes’ reign from outside sources. This decree actually resulted in the rebuilding of Jerusalem under Nehemiah.71.174.128.111 (talk) 16:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

- this IP editor was previously blocked from editing this Talk page - the block notice said, "blocked the IP from Talk space for 72 hours. Next time everyone please ignore him." (emphasis added) - Epinoia (talk) 16:53, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Have you yet come to the realization that Alexander the Great was Greek or are you still holding out?71.174.128.111 (talk) 17:01, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

My edits have been undone multiple times

I would request a 3rd person opinion if possible. Thanks --GoogleMeNowPlease (talk) 00:43, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

WP:ERA is WP:PAG. A third opinion cannot trump WP:PAG. Tgeorgescu (talk) 00:44, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Don't know why this user continues to hound me and my edits. There are other people on Wikipedia --GoogleMeNowPlease (talk) 00:46, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

GoogleMeNowPlease, I have never (to my knowledge) edited this article before. Tgeorgescu is correct according to policy and you are wrong according to policy. Your edits (changing BCE to BC, etc.) were inappropriate and should be reverted. Now that you know about this policy, we'll expect you to follow it, here and elsewhere. You are not being hounded. You are recently unblocked and are expected to follow Wikipedia's policies and guidelines everywhere. Someone pointing out to you that you are failing and heading quickly toward a reblock is not considered hounding. --Yamla (talk) 00:48, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

The first day after being unblocked you have violated WP:ERA twice. I choose not to look the other way when people violate WP:RULES. Tgeorgescu (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yalma: I do not personally agree with BCE, but changing BCE to BC was not my main edit. My main edit was adding the Josephus reference --GoogleMeNowPlease (talk) 00:50, 24 September 2020 (UTC)