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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by GevHev4 (talk | contribs) at 07:48, 28 September 2020 (→‎Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2020: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Disputed neutrality

Because of some Armenian "trusted" authors, page became less neutral. Most of information source is unreliable and unverified site. Some of them don't have any source even. Please don't prefer Armenian sources only, because it is not one-sided war. --Ayxan İsmayılov (talk) 14:17, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This type of messages are useless for other users since they don't know what specific information or source do you mean. Give specific examples/cases. --ԱշոտՏՆՂ (talk) 14:24, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, currently the article merely reports statements from both sides per WP:ATTRIBUTE. As the article's creator I can say that so far none of them is presented as an undisputable, widely accepted fact. Brandmeistertalk 14:55, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A woman and a child were killed by Azerbaijani shelling of civilian settlements in Martuni province in Nagorno-Karabakh, the country's human rights advocate Artak Beglaryan said on 27 September. According to him, schools have been shelled, and there is large-scale damage to civilian infrastructure in many settlements. According to Beglaryan, "In Stepanakert alone, there are more than 10 injured, including children and women". You can't find these statements in any neutral verified sites like BBC, Reuters or New York Times etc. Source of this statement is Armenian website. For sure, they will write everything for their revenues. The fact "five members of the same family were killed by Armenian shelling of one village in Azerbaijan." is from verifiable source. Unseen this, we can see that all statements are againist of Azerbaijan. --Ayxan İsmayılov (talk) 16:50, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is completely neutral

It stated what both the Armenian and Azerbaijani side claimed in terms of casualties and the fact that Azerbaijan started these clashes by bombing and attacking a few villages. Greglawl (talk) 15:52, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Greglawl[reply]

Agree Huskermax5 (talk) 18:50, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality of the article, facts are deleted immediately

Could you, please, explain why my edits to this article are erased? The information is deleted minutes after it’s added.

I quote international sources and official government reports - UN declarations, US government website, international news outlets. One of my sources is The 2018 War Report prepared by the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights from RULAC. I find it as a reputable source given this definition and would like to know on which grounds the direct quotes of the report that I have used to add these 2 sentences to Background section of the Wikipedia article are deleted.

my text is below:

The war resulted in Armenian occupation of the Nagorno-Karabakh region, as well as in the surrounding districts Aghdam, Jabrail, Fuzuli, Kalbajar, Gubadli, Lachin and Zangilan of Azerbaijan. According to The 2018 War Report prepared by the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights, 'Armenia exercises its authority over Nagorno-Karabakh by equipping, financing or training and providing operational support to the self-proclaimed Nagorno-Karabakh Republic and its forces, but also in coordinating and helping the general planning of their military and paramilitary activities'.

it contained links to the above mentioned report as well as Wikipedia article


Grazie!!!

--XASRx (talk) 16:14, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits are trying to make the point that one side of the conflict has more legitimacy than the other. It violates WP:NPOV, and that is why your edits are being removed. Acebulf (talk) 17:14, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Syrian "mercenaries" and PKK

Please remove both of these, ridiculous claims. Beshogur (talk) 17:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Beshogur I think it is fine since both are clearly labelled as allegations not established facts and therefor also not included in the infobox. Both sources obviously have their biases, but should not be rejected just because they are Greek and Turkish. Besides the SOHR also has a story alleging SNA presence in Azerbaijan. [[1]] Even if one or both turn out to be false they can of interest as examples of the ongoing propaganda war. Icarusatthesun (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article should be renamed to 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War

As Azerbaijan and Artkash have both declared a state of war, this is a war and the article should be renamed as such. See here [2] and here [3].XavierGreen (talk) 17:14, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Too early. It could en in days or few weeks. There is nothing like full scale war right now. Beshogur (talk) 17:29, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is literally a declared war going on, it matters not how long it lasts or even if combat is actually occurring see for example Anglo-Swedish War. Since the parties on both sides have declared a state of war, it is now literally and legally a war.XavierGreen (talk) 17:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The military activity is going on almost exclusively in Nagorno-Karabakh which is within the internationally recognized borders of Azerbaijan, so no formal declaration of war has been made. Also, none of the state sources (state media, Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, etc) reported the declaration of war. Brandmeistertalk 18:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, it should be renamed. Wars don't have to last any specific time period, conflicts can last only for a few minutes (Anglo-Zanzibar War), and still be considered wars. Pisiu369 (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Pisiu369's suggestion. There was a war that was declared. Unless Wikipedia has other qualifications in its rules for what is and isn't a war, I see no reason not to change the title. --Grngu (talk) 17:55, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that the title should include the word war at this point, but something more definitive than "clashes" might be warranted at this stage. Acebulf (talk) 17:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose state of war (curfew) and declaration of war are two separate things. Azerbaijan does not recognize the separatist regime in Nagorno-Karabakh, it can't declare war on it. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 18:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Azerbajan declared a state of war to exist, while it did not declare war on Nagorno-Karabakh the Azerbaijani government considers itself to be at war according to the sources stating such like Al-Jazeera [4]. And recognition has nothing to do with a state declaring war, Egypt does not recognize ISIS but Egypt in 2015 officially declared itself to be in a state of war due to its ongoing conflict with ISIS in 2015.XavierGreen (talk) 01:04, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Second Nagorno-Karabakh War is more fitting than that. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 18:04, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the suggestion of renaming it "Second Nagorno-Karabakh War". Ultimograph5 (talk) 18:09, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Because Azerbaijan has declared itself to be in a a state of war and news sources are calling it a war see here [5]XavierGreen (talk) 00:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of war or clashes how about hostilities? Huskermax5 (talk) 18:53, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bloomberg News is calling this a war, see here [6]XavierGreen (talk) 00:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 September 2020

Please change the number of casualties per Armenian sources to dozens. The source is a press release by the President of the Artsakh Republic who states that there are dozens of casualties on the Armenian side. See video here: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=814151416014805&extid=Wu5kLVfkAHLOGUNz Younghistorian19 (talk) 20:06, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

flag errors

Hi, there are some flag errors on the right information bar. The Turkish flag is posted next to Nikol Pashinyan instead of the Armenian flag. Other similar errors follow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.199.232.116 (talk) 20:12, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Total mobilization

I know sources use that term, but what does it mean? It needs to be explained in the article. ― Hebsen (talk) 21:30, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Report on PKK/YPG involvement

Here is an article by James Wilson on The European Union Political Report, "PKK’s Involvement in the Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict would Jeopardise European Security". --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 22:02, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

6 a.m. or 8 a.m.?

Not clear from the current version of the article: did the armed conflict (attack) begin at 6 a.m. or 8 a.m., and which side started it? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 22:12, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

173.88.246.138, the Azerbaijani side claims that it started at 06:00, when the Armenians violated the ceasefire and shelled Azerbaijani villages, and then the Azerbaijani forces launched a counter-offensive. While the Armenian side don't mention what happened at 06:00, and state that the clashes started when the Azerbaijani forces launched a "pre-planned" attack on Karabakh. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 06:43, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background part

The sentences in the Background part of this article seem to be against the principles of WP:TOOLONG.

In the first paragraph, Although it is stated in the article "Nagorno-Karabakh" that this region belongs to Azerbaijan, it is repeated in that page's first sentence and Republic of Artsakh is defining "self proclaimed" again, which is already described in its article. So, this sentences are against WP:TOOLONG. If we look at the previous conflict page, the background is quite short but clear and plain. I suggest rewriting this sentence as "The clashes stem from the dispute over the Armenian-majority Nagorno-Karabakh, a de jure territory of Azerbaijan, and de facto territory of Republic of Artsakh.".

The second sentence can be shortened as "The Nagorno-Karabakh War had ended with a ceasefire in 1994, with Armenia in control of the Nagorno-Karabakh region, as well as in the surrounding districts."

The third sentence is totally irrelevant about this conflict. It is relevant with Armenia-N.K. Gov relations. I believe this sentece should be deleted.

The last sentence in this paragraph has no problem as I see.

The second paragraph is also not directly relevant with this conflict. It looks more like a compile of the news. But, If the Wikipedia community considers these events are significant, this paragraph should be shortened.

Last paragraph is relevant and important about this page but I guess it's place is not "Background" division. Those claims should be moved to another part. For example, a new headline like "Claims" under "Clashes" part. ––Amillians (talk) 08.25, 28 September 2020 —Preceding undated comment added 05:25, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Minor spillover in Iran

Per this report:

Iranian officials reported that as a result of the clashes, an artillery projectile hit the village of Khalaf Beygluy-e Sofla in the Khoda Afarin County, with no "financial or human damage." (sources: اصابت راکت به یکی از روستاهای آذربایجان شرقی,

— اصابت راکت به روستای خلف بیگلو خسارت مالی و جانی نداشت)

can we say that the location of the clashes include Iran? Note that a similar thing happened in 2016 clashes. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 07:11, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2020

The General Secretariat of the Organization of American States (GS/OAS) strongly condemned "the recent military aggression of Azerbaijan".[1] GevHev4 (talk) 07:48, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Declaration of the Secretary General of the OAS, Luis Almagro, regarding recent military attacks of Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh, September 27, 2020
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