Talk:Bigfoot/Archive 5

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (through December 2005)
• Archive 2 (through January 25, 2006)
• Archive 3 (through February 9, 2006)

Notices

1) I archived the page. It was huge again, and most of the discussion was complaints by an editor and his sockpuppets who are now banned from Wikipedia for a year. All that should no longer be relevant to future work on the article.

2) Beckjord is banned, per the decision of ArbCom... That means if he or some anon IP or some new sockpuppet of his comes along, don't waste your time trying to improve it, remove it completely, because it's already been shown that he is POV-pushing and spamming, and trying to edit it to make it better means making the article worse. Reverting back to the last good version is the only reasonable option. DreamGuy 17:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Article revision

DreamGuy, I think you prematurely reverted the Bigfoot article. The only problem is you didn't take the time to see the numerous good edits present that were also removed when you reverted to an earlier version, thus the article suffers a good deal of collateral damage that can be avoided. Many of the good edits are minor but are scattered throughout the article, so reinstating them would be a very tedious task.

Therefore, I think it’s best to just remove the blatant Beckjord advertising and nonesense from the current version rather than revert.

Secondly, a lot of the "Beckjord" stuff was written by MONGO, see edits. You two should discuss whether or not to keep the material rather than you simply jumping the gun and just removing it. --Every1blowz 18:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry... Frankly, not seeing these "good edits", but if they are "minor," as you say, then it's better to revert the MAJOR problems and have people go through and re-add the minor improvements instead of keeping the major, major problems for the sake of a few minor additions. I certainly am not "jumping the gun" but removing blatant POV-pushing... and if the POV-pushing was, in fact, written by MONGO (which I haven't checked), then it's still wrong. DreamGuy 03:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I think MONGO did filter a lot of Beckjord's, uh, information, in the current version - I've asked him to join this conversation. It would be good to work out a stable version we can all agree to here, now that we don't have Beckjord to deal with, yeah? I'll be happy to protect the page in the m:Wrong version, if it comes to that. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a serious problem with this revert. Those are really Beckjord's edits that Mongo merely tried to clean up... they don't need to stay in any form. android79 04:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The information I added was indeed in a published periodical and was cited...now that periodical is no longer in print it is harder to reference but I did reference it. All it was was an article written by Beckjord and published in 1977 or 78....it cannot be cross referenced, but the names mentioned are key players in forensic science and DNA...especially Ellis R. Kerley and Dr. Vincent Sarich. Though it cannot be cross referenced and I have searched for anything else related to these issues in vain, I also have no reason to doubt Beckjord's claim on this matter. Naturally I don't condone the personal attacks or buy into the wormhole/ufo nonsense. I don't really care if my edit stays or not...I may have trusted Beckjord based on his meeting (he claims to have met) with Kerley and I studied under Kerley and I do know that Kerley did do a lot of work on hair samples for forensic evidence.--MONGO 04:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I have no opinion one way or the other, if that's not already apparent. Every1Blowz? Opinion? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

If the source is that vague and obscure, I don't think we can use it. android79 04:59, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Since MONGO has no problems then we can remove it. --Every1blowz 15:40, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse...but I am thinking this matter over at this time. I have attempted to make contact with Tom Moore who is now retired to see if anything else about the hair diagnosis was published. Bear in mind that nothing I put in the article offered proof of bigfoot...it was just a summary of events as detailed in the published work.--MONGO 03:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Shadowlands link:

Bigfoot: Food, hostile encounters. Is this link any good ? Martial Law 06:09, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I found it while examining rumors of Bigfoot attacking people. The movie The Legend of Boggy Creek is about some people who has had a run-in w/ this thing, it attacks them, sending one to the hospital. Martial Law 06:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Some claim that this thing shies away from people, instead of attacking them. The link above appearantly supports reports that this thing will attack people. Martial Law 06:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

On the link, see RE.:Are They Dangerous ? Martial Law 06:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

QUESTION

What is the Latin American designation for Bigfoot, sasquatch ?

Keypad acted up. Martial Law 09:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm certain that there is a creature like this in the Latin American nations. Martial Law 09:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm only referring to a geographical area that is from the US/Mexican border towards the South Pole, no more, no less. Did'nt mean to offend any one, just asking about the possibility of a creature that is in that area of the world. Martial Law 09:54, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

More pictures please

Does anyone else think this article needs more pictures of a Bigfoot? I mean there's an awfull lot of text but only one photo. I'm worried this may keep some readers thoroughly bored, maybe even those interested in the subject. I think the epitome of a good article is one which is both well written (we've got that part nailed) but also a well illustarted article. We're obviously lacking in the latter department.

I have noticed that we've removed two other pictures so far. One from NIMBA creations (a model sasquatch or something) and another from Beckjord. That's good. The former was blatant advertising and the other wasn't even very good; basically what we already had except a blown-up, crappier, and gray-scaled version of it.

Anyway, I think if someone stumbles upon an excellent or noteworthy picture which we can use I don't see any problems with adding it to the current article.

Opinions anyone? --Every1blowz 01:14, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, go to the shadowlands link, any other bigfoot link. They have some pixes of this thing on them. Martial Law 01:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Do a Google Search:"Bigfoot Pixes". Does this help ? Martial Law 01:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

There is a pix of one that is used to promote the movie The Legend of Boggy Creek. Martial Law 01:59, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

More Bigfoot Pixes

Go this Gallery of Bigfoot Pixes to see pixes of Bigfoot. Martial Law 10:20, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Blurry Pixes

Why is it when a photo of this thing is taken, it looks like the camera, even a $10,000 camera, one w/ "infinity" focus is out of focus ? I've seen the pixes all over the place, incl. the Coast To Coast AM website, Jeff Rense's website, and all of the pixes are blurry. Why is this so ? Martial Law 10:46, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The most likely reason is that nobody has ever actually taken a picture of a real bigfoot. Most likely that is because bigfoot is ficton, folklore, and legend. Only blurry, out-of-focus images can be passed off as supposedly being bigfoot: if the same photo were taken but was in-focus and clear, you could clearly see that it was just a weird rock, tree, bush, bear, shadow, or whatever. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Its the "whatever" that is what has people jumpy - and carrying weapons. In Fouke, Arkansas,

everytime the creature is seen, the people grab their guns and go hunting this thing, and just heard about a incident in the Ozarks area about a Bigfoot. A journalist asked a local about it being someone in a suit(you can get them online), the local said that better not be going on - unless he or she wants to be shot. I have Satellite TV and heard about the incident on the news. I've also found more about it on the 'net, but will not place it here due to the WP:NOR protocol. Martial Law 21:03, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

This may also be attributable to too much moonshine.--MONGO 21:34, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Shocking Link

This link has some real shockers on it, incl. what appears to be Bigfoot feces that was allegedly found, and it has more links than the Mysteries Megasite website. Is this link for real, and if it is credible, can it be placed ? Martial Law 11:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not credible. Haven't you posted that link before? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Two Bigfoot Organizations

One is the Gulf Coast Bigfoot Research Organization, the other is the Oregon Bigfoot Research Organization. Both are mentioned above as persuant to a request for Bigfoot pics. Each state may have one or more of these Bigfoot Organizations. The former was www.gcbro.com and the latter was www.oregonbigfoot.com . Am checking the Gulf Coast site. Stand by. Martial Law 20:56, 12 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Is it OK to insert these links ? Martial Law 20:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The Gulf Coast Research Org. investigates all reports of this nature in the Gulf States area, from Florida to Texas. Martial Law 21:29, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Template:S-Protect Template

This thing says that all suggestions are to be brought HERE.

2nd Sentence, in the one w/ the padlock in it. Martial Law 08:27, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Back to blood and hair

I recognize that the evidence that Beckjord provided me on blood and hair may be a conflict of interest for inclusion based on other actions by Beckjord. However, I feel they deserve mention. These hair samples were all reviewed by three known specialists and they all concluded that the hairs came from an unknown mammal with possible primate origins. Is there a NPOV way of incorporating this information in the article? I also believe that the blood sample analyized by Sarich is worth mentioning. None of the evidence provides facts that either support or deny the existence of bigfoot, but that well known specialists in their fields did look the evidence over is important...and at least makes Grover Krantz look less like a rogue anthropologist. Thoughts?--MONGO 08:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Go to one of the links in Re.: Military Reports. One mentions a test conducted by the FBI.

This is in the last archive made on this page. Does this help Admin. Mongo ? Martial Law 08:30, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

This link has material about the FBI tests on these hair samples. Does this also help ? Martial Law 08:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

DNA ? Has anyone done any DNA tests ? Martial Law 08:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

No, the FBI is a criminal investigative organization, so their results wouldn't be released without a federal court order to do so...and they probably don't exist anymore anyway. I'm talking about cleaning up this edit...[1], but using portions of it for the sake of completeness.--MONGO 08:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Only sure way to get these samples is to find a Bigfoot, and take it down. Problems incl. local and/or state laws about hunting this thing, and some researchers claim that gunfire has no effect on this thing. Martial Law 08:51, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Good luck...hard to shoot something that seems to be unfindable. Remember Martial Law...there is zero proof that Bigfoot exists...all we have a are little inconsequential tidbids that are not fully explained.--MONGO 08:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Those are'nt "tidbits". Those are clues, just as is a fingerprint, DNA, a stolen car, etc. that leads the police officer to the career making criminal bust. Martial Law 22:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Friends of Bigfoot

What about this link ? Martial Law 09:05, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

It also has some Bigfoot pixes on here as well. Martial Law 09:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

Should it be stated that readers can use the External Links: The links for the Bigfoot Organizations to report their own encounters ? Some of these organizations send out personnel who will investigate the incident in a similar manner as that of a police investigation. Only that NO crime has been committed. User:Beckjord did raise some points about Wikipedia being a "how to" reference - such as First Aid and some war protocol for civilians. Martial Law 21:59, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

The BFRO is already there (in external links) so I guess you can add a little description informing people that that is an excellent place to report sightings. I don't have any problems with that. There is also several other such websites where you can report encounters so I really don't see the point of adding any other websites, if you plan to that is. --Every1blowz 21:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I've heard from one editor that the BFRO is scandal ridden. The claim comes from www.beckjord.com. That is why I'm asking about other bigfoot investigative organizations. Martial Law 03:21, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Anyone here seen/encountered this thing ?

Any wikipedians seen/encountered this thing ? Your encounter may help solve this mystery once and for all. Martial Law 22:05, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Lets keep your reports in Wiki compliance. Martial Law 22:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Please bear in mind WP:NOR, Martial Law. Wikipedia isn't the right venue for trying to solve the mystery. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:07, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Martial Law 22:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

One Wikipedian has reported a encounter w/ this thing, and I did state to keep things in Wiki compliance. Martial Law 08:37, 15 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Apologise for any errors here. Martial Law 08:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Each State in USA

Each state has a Bigfoot Research Organization in them, since all 50 states have reported encounters with them and other bizarre creatures, such as the Mothman and/or the Chupacabra, Champ. Where can this statement be placed w/o messing up the article ? Martial Law 22:30, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

I think it's pretty notable that each state has such an orginization and I wouldn't have any issues with you adding a very brief mention of that fact somewhere in the "Bigfoot phenomenon" section. Of course before you do we need to have some other users voice their opinions. --Every1blowz 21:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I think a lot of these "reporting organizations" are just some random guy's website, though. That would eed to be demonstrated incorrect before it would make sense to me to include such info. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Citation Answer:Stink: Why Bigfoot is smelly

Go to this link. It discribes what Bigfoot allegedly smells like. More to follow. Martial Law 23:01, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Another link that discusses the thing's smelly nature. Martial Law 23:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC) Still more to follow. Only in compliance to WP:CITE request in article itself. Martial Law 23:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Got two more links that may comply w/ the citation request. These two links are Why Bigfoot Stinks and This may explain why Bigfoot stinks. Hope these help. Martial Law 23:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Are these links useful ?

After all, I found a tag that said that citation is needed. Martial Law 23:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

After all, it smells like rotten meat, carrion, sewage, rotten eggs, animal waste, worse. Martial Law 23:37, 14 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Farmers and those who have seen war knows what carrion smells like. Martial Law 08:39, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

News

User:BunchofGrapes is a Admin. Martial Law 03:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Seen the recent communications. Should I continue to bring things here or just throw them into the article ? Martial Law 03:38, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

You are, as are all users, welcome to edit the article. I implore you to exercise brutal judgement in what sources you cite. It's very easy to find unreliable sources in this subject area. Rule of thumb: No web pages. No blogs. Magazines, books, and newspapers only. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Will do. What about this link:Bigfoot FAQs ? Reason I've been having sites "vetted" is to make sure they're credible, incl. the link to Sasquatch FAQs. Is that site credible ? Martial Law 03:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

If link is malfunctioning, go offsite. Martial Law 03:51, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The link is broken and whatever "go offsite" is supposed to mean, it doesn't help. But I can still answer the question: it's not credible. No web pages. No blogs. Magazines, books, and newspapers only. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

This link is about the recent CNN report of one seen in Malaysia. Done a Google Search: Bigfoot, and got a graphic of a newspaper showing the latest Bigfoot reports. Is that OK ? Will comply. Martial Law 03:59, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

One recent reverted communication claims you, Admin. BunchofGrapes, that you are not a Admin. What is going on ?! Martial Law 04:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I did investigate that rumor and found it false. I know you are a Admin. Martial Law 04:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

PBS And Bigfoot

This link says that PBS has investigated some Bigfoot Reports. Should I place this one ? Martial Law 04:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Its one of the "state" Bigfoot agencies mentioned in a reference about each state having a Bigfoot Investigative Agency, just like the GCBRO or the Texas Bigfoot Research Agency. Martial Law 04:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Sasquatch Research

What about this link: Sasquatch Research Organization ? Martial Law 04:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Its got a bunch of skull photos in it, some reputedly those of early Man, some look like Bigfoot skulls. Martial Law 07:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC) It even has a pix of Dr. Krantz here. Martial Law 07:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :o

Magazine

This link is about a magazine concerned with paranormal matters, here, it is bigfoot. Martial Law 09:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Bigfoot RESEARCH organization

This link will take you to this organization: Bigfoot Research Organization. Martial Law 09:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC) :)

"Bigfoot Tracks" Link

This is an original source, so it can't be quoted, but it is an interesting site comparing "bigfoot" tracks to bear tracks. http://www.spiritone.com/~brucem/bigf1.htm

Artiemishi 21:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)Artiemishi

Skamania County

I live in a neighboring county. Skamania's "sasquatch" ordinances were jokes. They were never codified. See http://www.skamaniacounty.org/bpc/html/index.htm

Artiemishi 21:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)artiemishi

Bigfoot tracks and - well - Bigfoot ?

Bigfoot tracks and WHAT appears to be Bigfoot feces: From the GCBRO. Martial Law 05:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC) :)

I am monitoring a ice storm that could take down a sizable chunk of the US down. Martial Law 05:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Can this be used ? Martial Law 05:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

This "Explains" everything about Bigfoot

This link purports to explain everything about Bigfoot. Martial Law 05:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC) :D

Is this one any good ? Martial Law 05:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC) :)

Stop trusting sites with no author

Like Wiki, sites and edits with no name people are meaningless.

Merely because some site says they have answers, does not mean they do. That one is on the right track, but only goes half-way. Stick to http://www.bigfoot.org

Bill on the BF Edit Committee. "Keeping Wiki honest".

Wiki could be worse

Looking at Columhia, Encarta, and Britannica, these all have rotten old Bigfoot articles. Wiki is very flawed, but at least it has more.

bruno

Watch lists and Wiki cops

What amazes us on the BF edit committee, is that many of you guys have "watch lists" with hundreds of articles on them, so that every day, you get notices, hourly, that this or that has been edited. This is endless. Is this all you have to do with your lives? It is a Wiki Hell.

Carlos