Talk:Abortion debate

Finally, we're ready for a mature discussion (I hope)

I think that the level of interest in the discussion above is good. It is also true that, until this point, the discussion has been framented (to say the least) and that discussing these issues on multiple talk pages cannot hope to be a path to consensus. I believe that we now have at least discovered the venue for discussing the proposal to merge Abortion rights movement and Pro-life movement, and that is here.

But this discussion must stay organized, insofar as that is possible. I am going to create some sections in an attempt to keep the discussion focused and on task.

right to body

Is it also legal for a conjoined twin to cut off their sibling? --24.94.251.19 (talk) 10:25, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Ireland/Nicaragua

I note this change. While the rational for using Ireland as an example (rather than Nicaragua) makes sense, the citation used still refers to Nicaragua, not Ireland. Can we find a source on Ireland?

Abortion in the Republic of Ireland says citation needed. Abortion in Ireland is a disambig page which includes a link to Abortion in the United Kingdom#Northern Ireland, which offers this Lancet article, which says "Politicians from the unionist and nationalist parties in Northern Ireland joined forces on June 20 to block any extension of the 1967 British Abortion Act to the North where terminations are allowed on a restricted basis."

Yaris678 (talk) 18:29, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Rename to Abortion controversy?

Having noticed one of the newspaper style guides I've recently been sifting through using the phrase "abortion controversy", I'm struck by that seeming like rather a better title for this article than "abortion debate" -- what with relatively little of the controversy involved being in a context anything like what we normally think of as a "debate". Anybody have thoughts on this? —chaos5023 (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I prefer debate, because the article is about about the back-and-forth arguments about the legality of abortion. Perhaps it could be titled Debate regarding legal abortion or Debate regarding abortion law. The word "controversy" can include other things such as how controversial it might be for white Americans to push racial abortion on African Americans as a form of genocide (this is an actual theme in some people's current thinking) or how controversial it is to provide abortion services to 17-year-old pregnant women without telling the parents of these legal minors, etc. Those things are just touched upon in this article, not explained in depth. Legal debate is this article, "Controversy" is a larger article that is not yet written. Binksternet (talk) 23:29, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. Certainly this article is large enough already. Thanks! —chaos5023 (talk) 00:19, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I feel like "controversy" implies a specific incident. "Debate," as Binksternet said, is a better title for an article that sums up arguments from either side. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

The "arguments in favor of..." section is not.

It's almost entirely critical of abortion. Would someone like to work on this with me? I am thinking of including research on the health of the woman and prevention of deaths caused by pregnancy, and the right to bodily autonomy under the law to make one's own medical decisions. There are several organizations around the world and in America arguing in favor of abortion and abortion laws and they are inadequately mentioned. Or maybe just rename the section "further criticisms of abortion"? Ongepotchket (talk) 16:58, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Anti-abortion movement does not emphasize the right of the child to be born, as the introductory paragraph states

The right to life refers to the right to not to be killed, not to be born.

In addition, the doctrine of double effect is sometimes invoked when debating the extreme cases where carrying the pregnancy to term would put the mother's life in jeopardy. The act of doing harm (killing the fetus because inducing labor otherwise is not an option) conflicts with the act of doing good (saving the mother's life). Childbirth seems to be amoral in this debate.

Some additional things:

1) I have tried editing the introduction to include violence from both sides, but the edit was rejected for comparing the "small" instances of pro-choice violence to pro-life violence was not neutral. There are plenty of cases where pro-choice advocates/groups have resorted to violence, threats, and property crimes. For example, the website prochoiceviolence.com has plenty of those instances recorded. If anybody wants to help me create a Wikipedia page to outline pro-choice violence, please contact me.

2) A peer reviewed study in Chile has concluded that criminalizing abortion does not lead to an increase in maternal mortality. Thus, I believe it should be included under the "Effects of legalization/illegalization" section to show a contrast with the WHO study.

Here's the study: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0036613

3) Also, I believe the following line, and in particularly the reference to "the patriarch":

"In ancient times, abortion, along with infanticide, had been considered a matter of family planning, gender selection, population control, and the property rights of the patriarch."

should be either removed or edited to a neutral, non-feminist perspective.