Talk:Dissolution of the Soviet Union

Is the new lead photo a perfect illustration?

I think the current top image, is great for this article, but the Russian flag doesn't really illustrate the union as a whole coming apart, rather than simply the Russian SSR reorganizing. It also implies a single event marked by the flag-lowering, rather than several years of separatism culminating in the flag-lowering. Perhaps a collage of key events would be more suitable? Would love to hear thoughts on this. Wodgester (talk) 17:54, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

A collage including the flag-lowering, as well as other key events in the collapse of the Soviet Union, might be an interesting idea. –Gluonz ^{talk contribs} 18:51, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

This might be more urgent, however, for the Revolutions of 1989 article, which is about a broader topic yet still only includes one infobox image. –Gluonz ^{talk contribs} 13:08, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Proposal for changes

Hi everyone, Looking back over the talk page it looks like there's a general consensus that the article is too long, and could use some simplification. I wanted to propose some things and see what everyone thought.

Reorganization of the timeline structure

One of the biggest things that I think makes the article unwieldy is it's breakdown of events into years, as opposed to importance. For example, the same article on the Russian Wikipedia doesn't sort by 1988 - 1991 but by country, starting with those countries that first started to voice dissent and later leave the USSR. Much of the dissent occurred in the Baltic states, and the subheading Protest activity in Background could almost completely be combined into a section on the Baltics. After the Baltic states would follow the Caucasus (modern day Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia), and then the eastern republics including Moldova. Much of the details of specific events could be moved to region or country specific pages.

Another consideration in this reorganization is the pertinence of events to the actual dissolution. A good deal of the article deals with political posturing within the USSR, and could be cut. Instead, I propose

A background section dedicated to Gorbachev's reforms and government reactions to fracturing unity

This section could become the new background, and detail in short how Gorbachev attempted to keep the USSR together while making room for reform. This section could also include more information about the international reactions to the fall, including at the Berlin Wall, which is arguable one of the most recognizable signs of the USSR's decline but is currently only mentioned in passing. This could also be an opportunity to insert American statements in regards to the Cold War and Space Race, or that could be kept in the impacts.

A final historical section on the 1991 election and coup

Again modeling the page after the Russian wiki, this section would keep most of the 1991 information, but again focusing less on the timeline and more on the impact of the most important events. In particular, I think there's some context missing around the time of the coup, and what Yeltin's goals were.

Additions to the impact

Although this was probably one of the most important events in the 20th century, the impacts section is remarkably lack-luster. I suggest sports/Olympics be added to an "International Relations" section that also includes the final part of the 1991 transfer of the USSR's UN Security Council seat to Russia.

Other possible headings from the Russian wiki include: Domestic Conflicts (a series of 7 rebellions or wars inside previous USSR states during which approx. 100,000 people died and 5 million were displaced). The fall of the rouble zone. The breakdown of the USSR's military forces and nationalization of them to Russia, as well as new nations' creations of armed forces. Of particular interest there was the dividing up of the USSR's nuclear weapons to Ukraine, Kazakstan, Russia, and Belarus, and the demilitarization of borders after ex-Soviet states were no longer concerned about being forced back into the Union. Finally there are some notes about the status of the Crimea and Kaliningrad.

Hopefully those changes would make the article more reader-friendly, and topical. Let me know what you think! Ph03n1x77 (talk) 22:52, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Ph03n1x77 I like most of your suggestions. Not sure about switching from timeline to country structure, as the events in many countries impacted each other and were not independent. Alaexis_¿question? 12:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Cleaned up Bare Links

Hi! I've taken the liberty of fixing 25 bare links on this article. Atomic putty? Rien! (talk) (talk) 14:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Nazarbayev Portrait.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Contradictory statement

Could anyone help me understand the following statement? Or confirm that the paragraph is indeed contradictory and should therefore be revised:

Consequences

Economic decline, hunger, and excess mortality

In the decades following the end of the Cold War, only five or six of the post-Soviet states are on a path to joining the wealthy capitalist states of the West, and most are falling behind, some to such an extent that over 50 years will be needed before they catch up to how they were before the end of communism. However, virtually all the former Soviet republics were able to turn their economies around and increase GDP to multiple times what it was under the USSR.

Am I missing something? If most are "falling behind"... how can "virtually all" have multiplied their GDPs??? Ninito159 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 4 April 2024

Dissolution of the Soviet Union → Collapse of the Soviet Union –

• "collapse of the Soviet Union" is about four times as common as "dissolution of the Soviet Union" (and the other alternatives of "fall" and "breakup") according to Ngrams: [1].
• There are many more results in Google Scholar: 156,000 for "collapse" [2], 37,700 for "fall" [3], 30,700 for "dissolution" [4], and 18,900 for "breakup" [5].
• Dissolution of the Soviet Union § Further reading lists 12 sources with "collapse" in the title (including what I'd consider the most comprehensive source for this topic, the 2021 book Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union) versus just one source with "dissolution".
• Britannica's equivalent article is titled "collapse of the Soviet Union": [6].
• Both The Cambridge History of the Cold War [7] and The Cambridge History of Communism [8] use "collapse" in their chapters about this topic.

Based on this evidence, "Collapse of the Soviet Union" is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME for this article. Malerisch (talk) 03:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose This article is about the dissolution specifically, and not the broader events that led to it. 128.193.54.168 (talk) 10:33, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

This article is about the collapse specifically, and not the broader events that led to it. DrakerBaker (talk) 13:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Existing main title header is analogous to other headers, such as Dissolution of Austria-Hungary, Dissolution of Czechoslovakia, Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire, Dissolution of the monasteries in Portugal, Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles, Dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, Dissolution of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, Dissolution of the Russian Empire, Dissolution of Serbia and Montenegro or Dissolution of the union between Norway and Sweden, to name but ten. On the other hand, "Collapse of..." seems to bring up entries such as Collapse of Jiujiang Bridge, Collapse of the Royal Plaza Hotel or Collapse of the World Trade Center. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:45, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Roman Spinner If the concern is about WP:CONSISTENT titling, I'll note that "Dissolution of X" is hardly the only way that articles about the endings of civilizations/countries/empires are titled: see Late Bronze Age collapse, Classic Maya collapse, Collapse of the Georgian realm, Division of the Mongol Empire, End of the Han dynasty, Fall of the Western Roman Empire, Fall of Constantinople, Fall of the Serbian Empire, Transition from Sui to Tang, Transition from Ming to Qing, Breakup of Yugoslavia, etc. Some articles have "dissolution" in their name due to WP:COMMONNAME, and others don't because it's not. In fact, some of the "Dissolution of X" articles could actually be titled with "collapse" per WP:COMMONNAME:

• Dissolution of Austria-Hungary: "Collapse" is more common according to Ngrams [9], has more Google Scholar hits (1000 vs 700), and is what Britannica calls it: [10].
• Dissolution of the Ottoman Empire: "Collapse" is more common according to Ngrams [11] and has more Google Scholar hits (10400 vs 3700).
• Dissolution of the Russian Empire: This is a stub and probably just titled after this article, but "collapse" is more common according to Ngrams [12] and has more Google Scholar hits (2400 vs 300).
• Dissolution of Czechoslovakia, Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire, and Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles are correctly titled just because it's the WP:COMMONNAME according to Ngrams, not because of consistency: [13] [14] [15].
• Dissolution of the monasteries in Portugal and Dissolution of the Parliament of the United Kingdom are not about civilizations or countries.
• Dissolution of Serbia and Montenegro is a redirect, not an article.

Malerisch (talk) 03:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)