Talk:Elvis Presley/Archive 23

• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive1
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive2
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive3
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• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive5
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• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive7

Elvis the song producer?

The intro reads:

Elvis Aaron Presley (January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977), also known as "The King of Rock 'n' Roll" and "Elvis the Pelvis", was an American singer, song producer and actor.

What songs did Elvis produce? If he did produce any music then it should say "music producer" or "record producer", not "song producer". So can someone give a credible source to that says Elvis produced his own music? Otherwise, this will have to be deleted. It's an encyclopedia entry, you can't just make things up. So was he, or was he not a record producer?--Street walker 13:05, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Elvis produced a lot of his records, as documented in the documentary "Elvis '56".

Phil Spector also considered Elvis to be an excellent producer. Not sure what better endorsement he could get.

Lochdale

Other artists

Mentioing that other artists broke some of presleys records is fine, but there is no need to add three select artists, as you could name others as well. This is an Elvis Presley-article and noting that some records were broke by others without names is enough.

Michael Jackson was included by the user StreetWalker because he had "outsold" Elvis. This is disputed by many, many sources and therefore can not be verified. Also, there is no need at all to mention other acts, because not only have acts who broken Presleys records also had those records broken by others since, you could list Boys To Men, Garth Brooks or others. Therefore, there is no need to name names, espically on information that is disputed.

Elvis is the biggest seller ever, not Jackson. Please!

Elvis's Sinti-heritage

Any thoughts? (Source) His parents ancestors were part of the Sinti people commonly known as "Black Dutch" or "Melungeons". It is also likely that from his mother's side, Smith by surname, the family would have been of Romanichel origins.--81.77.78.217 18:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Elvis the alleged sex symbol

There should be a special paragraph concerning Elvis's allegedly wild sex life in the Wikipedia article on Elvis. As a recent Playboy article by reputed Elvis biographer Alanna Nash (See also this), Priscilla Presley's statements in her book Elvis and Me (See here) and similar statements by Suzanne Finstad in her book, Child Bride: The Untold Story of Priscilla Beaulieu Presley prove, Elvis was not overtly sexual towards his wife and other women as has been claimed in the "Relationships"-section of the Wikipedia article. Further, according to Peter Guralnick and other sources, he spent the whole day and night with men from the Memphis Mafia, "living on speed and tranq's." See Talk:Memphis_Mafia#Additional_sources, so that even Elvis's friend Natalie Wood was of the opinion that the singer and the men from the Memphis Mafia might be homosexual. It could well be that Elvis was a victim of his own image, of all these built-in expectations of him as a womanizer and a sex symbol. There should be some critical remarks concerning these facts in a special paragraph of the article. There has not yet been a sufficient discussion on this topic.--Onefortyone 15:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Anyone who has ever taken strong prescription medications, especially tranquilizers, b/p meds, etc., knows it does affect the sex drive and sexual performance. Elvis was a handsome gentleman that the women were crazy about. However, I'm sure it got old really fast. It has too be tiring to know that a herd of half-crazed females are going to try to rip off your clothes and will beat the day-lights out of you attempting to do so. I wouldn't care for it one bit. The man had no life because of his fame and because people acted irresponsibly and would not respect his privacy.--Bumpusmills1 12:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Some aspects of this interesting remark may also be included in the new paragraph.--Onefortyone 15:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems totally unnecessary to have these sections in the bio at all. Elvis has to be one of the most documented entertainers of all time. There have been over 2,000 books written about him yet user onefortyone seems to be fixated with unsubstantiated allegations about his sex life. Of the over 2,000 books less than 3 (one being a proposed manuscript) have suggested anything other than the notion that Elvis was a philanderer. I think it is highly volative of the NPOV to include what basically amounts to muck racking and what is against the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Looking at the history of this page it is clear that Used Onefortyone has a clear agenda of focusing solely on the sex live of Presley. That relates to his music how exactly?

Lochdale

For your information, Lochdale, there are parts of the lyrics to Elvis's famous song Jailhouse Rock that might resemble talk about same-sex relationships between inmates. Like "Number forty-seven said to number three:/You're the cutest jailbird I ever did see./I sure would be delighted with your company,/Come on and do the jailhouse rock with me." By the way, I am not focusing solely on the sex life of Elvis. For instance, I have also created the Alphabetical list of all of Elvis Presley's songs. Onefortyone 03:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how relevant that is given that Elvis did not write the song. Indeed, it had been covered by other artists both before and after Elvis. Does that mean that they are all homosexual? This is a nonsensical debate. Elvis life has been raked over more than anyother entertainer who has ever lived. Pretty much every detail of his life has been presented and now people who are desperate to make money off of his name are making claims with no credible support. An encyclopedia shouldn't include such nonsense.

Lochdale

User Onefortyone has added the following to the page:

In her book on Priscilla's life, Child Bride, Suzanne Finstad also confirms that Elvis hated sex.

There is no discussion on who Finstad is. No discussion as to the context of the book or the extremely broad suggestion that Elvis "hated sex". This should be removed from the page as it contradicts direct first person testimony from people who actually had relations with Preselty, bigoraphers who actually knew him etc. The issue here is that there have been so many books published about Presley that in order to get any attention later-day books have become more and more scandalous. Each book making an effort to "one up" the other.

If a book is published that suggests Elvis was a necrophiliac should we have a section for that? Under user Onefortyone's standards it would be entirely legitimate.  This entry should be edited to comport with basic standards of credibility.

Lochdale

Elvis 2nd highest selling artist

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) has just published its updated list of the 150 highest selling artists ever. IFPI has finally come up with a list of the top-selling acts in History. It's about time.

The top 10 is as follows:

01. The Beatles: 40 400,000,000 UK 60s (1962-1970) Rock/Pop Guinness/EMI

02. Michael Jackson: 14 350,000,000 US 70s-00s (1979-) Pop/R&B

03. Elvis Presley: 150 300,000,000 US 50s-70s (1956-1977) Country/Rock

04. Madonna 16 275,000,000 US 80s-00s (1984-) Pop

05. Nana Mouskouri 450 250,000,000 Greece 60s-00s (1959-) Pop

06. Cliff Richard 60 250,000,000 UK 50s-00s (1959-1969,1977-1979,1986-1999) Rock/Pop

07. The Rolling Stones 54 ~250,000,000 UK 60s-00s (1964-1981) Rock

08. Mariah Carey 14 230,000,000 US 90s-00s (1990-) Pop/R&B

09. Elton John 43 ~220,000,000 UK 70s-00s (1972-1976,1989-1991,1997-) Pop

10. Celine Dion 21 220,000,000 Canada 80s-00s (1990-) Pop Music/Pop

Source: IFPI's website and Madonna's website.

This list is PHONY! It is MADE UP by a Michael Jackson fan. Look at the link to the "IFPI Website", it goes to a MJ fan site, not the IFPI site. Also, it is written in the same format as the list that is on wikipedia, and has been merely edited by the person who runs the fan sites, it's a load of bullcrap! IFPI's site has NO MENTION of this fake made up list whatsoever!

No it was not made up by a Michael Jackson fan. It is phony to claim that. Open your eyes.

Someone has been sticking this list in many talk pages over the past few weeks. But just to clarify, this list is actually fake. IFPI has not published such a list, and are currently tracking down the source of it.--203.51.30.130 12:18, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Migration of quotes to Wikiquote

The long list of mostly unsourced quotes has been moved to Wikiquote. Please refer to the talk page at Elvis' quotes discussion for details. Best regards.--Hall Monitor 21:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Elvis put a paton on his sideburns in 1975.

Elvis' family origins

The fact that Presley comes from Pressler is only a theory of one person.I dont think it should be stated as fact. At least the source should be shown.

Does this sentence make any sense :

The surname Presley was Anglicized from the German Pressler during the Civil War. His ancestor Johann Valentin Pressler emigrated to North America in 1710. Pressler first settled in New York, but later moved to the South. He was of mostly Scottish [5] and English descent; the family also has Native American, German, South African and Jewish (from a great-grandmother of Gladys) roots.

So that means that 1. Elvis Presley had only one ancestor. 2. That ancestor, Johann Valentin Pressler (an obviously German name), was of Scottish and English decent. 3. Elvis's or Johann's (??) Family is also of Native American, German, South American and Jewish descent. Wow! By the way, they forgot Asia, Africa and Australia. Stettlerj 03:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Continued deliberate distortions by User on probation, Onefortyone

I removed the text inserted by Oneforty both here and at Memphis Mafia as the quotes are deliberately taken out of context to promote User:Onefortyone's agenda for which he was placed on probation. The entire article presents a completely different picture than what is falsely portrayed here in Onefortyone's continued attempt to portray Elvis Presly as gay. As an example, below are other quotes from the Byron Raphael article:

Text inserted by Onefortyone and removed by Ted Wilkes:

• In a 2005 Playboy magazine article, Byron Raphael, a one-time assistant to Presley's manager Colonel Tom Parker claims he worked for Elvis in 1956-57 and he procured countless girls to climb into bed with the star, including well-known movie stars. Raphael also claimed that actress Natalie Wood was upset when Presley refused to have intercourse with her and made a snide remark to members of the Memphis Mafia. Raphael made the unsubstantiated claim that Wood "was not the only one to think Elvis and the guys might be homosexual, especially since Elvis often wore pancake makeup and mascara offstage to accentuate his brooding intensity, a la Tony Curtis and Rudolph Valentino, his favorite movie actors. There were also rumors that Nick Adams swung both ways, just as there had been about Adams’s good pal (and Elvis’s idol) James Dean. Tongues wagged that Elvis and Adams were getting it on. But Elvis was frightened of homosexuals; the Colonel had told him to be on the lookout for them in Hollywood. He was even scared of Lizabeth Scott, the icy blonde who played romantic scenes with him in 1957’s Loving You, since Confidential magazine had recently outed her as a lesbian with a busy little black book."

Here are other quotes from the Byron Raphael article:

• "Having mowed his way through the Lido chorus line in Paris on weekends while he was stationed in Germany (it was nothing for Elvis’s small entourage to entertain 35 dancers as overnight guests), the Pelvis was bewitched by the foreign charm of his G.I. Blues co-star, Juliet Prowse. Despite being one of Frank Sinatra’s girls, the South African dancer and actress eagerly engaged in sex with the hip-wiggling headliner, who bragged to his friends that Prowse liked to grab her ankles and spread her legs wide during the act."

• "His fame was already such that he couldn’t take a woman to dinner without being mobbed by fans, but that also worked in his favor, helping ensure he'd get laid each night. He simply invited girls to the party he held in his suite every evening at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel."

• "Other members of his entourage could take the blame if an unfortunate pregnancy should arise. That may have happened a few times, as Colonel Parker had several important dinners with the parents of young girls who spent too much time with Elvis. After that, Parker had a directive. “When any girl comes up to Elvis’s room, I want to make sure at least two of you guys are around,” he said. “That way if any problems come up, you can say, ‘Well, we made it with her also.’ ” Any girl who came up to see Elvis — even a famous actress like Monroe — would have to sit around with one of the other guys before she went in alone with Elvis."

• "And. two, he always remembered his mother teaching him that sex before marriage was a sin. One day I brought three young girls into Elvis’s bedroom — a preference he’d indulged since his earliest days on the road, when he sometimes entertained six girls at once."

And as to Presley being "scared of Lizabeth Scott", Onefortyone made sure not to add:

• “Don’t worry, I’m gonna have sex with her,” Elvis shot back nervously, trying to hide his discomfort. And he did try to sweet-talk her to see if he could get her up to the suite and make some time with her. But Scott wanted no part of it. She was a sophisticated, reserved lady — nothing like Elvis’s type — and she knew the guys had put him up to it."

- Ted Wilkes 15:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't remove content which is backed up by three different sources, Ted! You have included a lot of stuff relating to Elvis's alleged relationships with hundreds of women. The article should be well balanced. So some disagreeing opinions must also be mentioned. Here is the text I have included in the Elvis article:

However, according to a recent article by Byron Raphael and Alanna Nash, "the so-called dangerous rock-and-roll idol was anything but a despotic ruler in the bedroom" and "really wasn’t all that keen on doing the wild thing. He was far more interested in heavy petting and panting and groaning" and "he would never put himself inside one of these girls. Within minutes he’d be asleep." Priscilla Presley relates that Elvis told her that he didn't make love to Anita Wood the whole four years he went with her. "Just to a point," he said. "Then I stopped. It was difficult for her too, but that's just how I feel." In her book, Child Bride, Suzanne Finstad also confirms that Elvis hated sex.

The text Ted Wilkes has cited above is a paragraph written for the Memphis Mafia article. Significantly, Ted Wilkes is frequently removing this text from the Memphis Mafia page, although I have accurately cited my sources. You are clearly violating your probation, Ted! The arbitration committee says that "Ted Wilkes and Wyss are banned from any article regarding a celebrity regarding which there are significant rumors of homosexuality or bisexuality..." and that "Ted Wilkes and Wyss are banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality." See [1] and [2]. Onefortyone 16:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Onefortyone's conviction for fabricating information in Wikipedia articles

NOTE: Edits by User:Onefortyone need to be carefully checked as he is on Wikipedia:Probation after being found guilty of fabricating information and deliberately inserting it into Wikipedia articles:

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Onefortyone/Proposed decision :

Verified information

1) Contentious facts which cannot be verified as having been published in a reputable source cannot be included in a Wikipedia article Wikipedia:Verifiability, see especially Wikipedia:Verifiability#Dubious_sources. Information should have been published in a reliable source Wikipedia:Reliable sources. In the case of unusual or scandalous assertions this becomes even more important, see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Exceptional_claims_require_exceptional_evidence

Support:

1. Fred Bauder 16:02, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
2. ➥the Epopt 21:23, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
3. James F. (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
4. I've tweaked the above (information -> "contentious facts") →Raul654 21:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
5. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
6. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Oppose:

1. 0

Abstain:

1. 0

Citing of nonexistent sources by Onefortyone

4) Onefortyone, in at least one instance, cites a source which does not exist in the form cited [3], see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Onefortyone/Workshop#Citing_of_nonexistent_sources_by_Onefortyone

Support:

1. Fred Bauder 16:11, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
2. ➥the Epopt 21:23, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
3. James F. (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
4. →Raul654 21:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
5. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
6. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Oppose:

1. 0

Abstain:

1. 0

- Ted Wilkes 14:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Ted Wilkes blocked for one week

For your information, Ted Wilkes has now been blocked for one week for repeatedly violating his probation. See [4]. No further comment. I accepted the arbcom votes and I am now frequently citing my sources. Therefore, I have not been banned from any article. But truth be told, Ted, the arbitration committee did not mention in their statement that what I have cited was published on two different websites and was based on information from the World Entertainment News Network. Here is one of these internet sources: [5] or [6]. Further, did you mention that the arbcom also said that I am a good editor who sometimes went too far (in the past)? It is a fact, Ted, that you, according to the arbitration committee, are "banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality". See [7] and [8]. And there was good reason for this. Here is a statement from the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard:

Wilkes has repeatedly violated the arbcom ruling. I banned him for 24 hours some days ago because of a number of violations, but treated them collectively as one breach. He has now committed two more unambiguous breaches. I have imposed a 1 week ban for the two breaches and am treating them as two clear and deliberate breaches. He is now up to three. If (and given his behaviour it seems a case of when) he hits five as per the arb ruling he will be banned for one year. He seems to treat arbcom rulings as a joke. They aren't. If he doesn't get the message then he will soon have a year to cop himself on. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 20:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a clear statement. No further comment. We should now return to Elvis-related topics. Onefortyone 23:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Making fun and denegrating Religious beliefs?

Anita Wood is a Pentecostal and an active member who teaches in her church. She adheres to her Church doctrine that states that "pre-marital sex is a sin." Do not, under any circumstanxces, make fun or denegrate people's religious beliefs be they Cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad or the teaching of the Pentecostal, Baptist, Methodist, and numerous other major world religions. - Ted Wilkes 14:38, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Truth be told, Ted, I do not think that I made fun or denigrated people's religious beliefs, as you falsely claim. In her book Elvis and Me, Priscilla Presley relates that Elvis told her that he didn't make love to Anita Wood the whole four years he went with her. "Just to a point," he said. "Then I stopped. It was difficult for her too, but that's just how I feel." So it seems as if Anita Wood wanted more. Onefortyone 23:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Or perhaps Presley was merely telling his very young wife what she wanted to hear. That is, he was faithful to her and was still a virgin just like her.

You seem overly obsessed with Preseley's sex life. That's really not what this should be about as it's his music and cultural impact that should be the issue of this page not innuendo about his sex life.

Lochdale

Birth & Childhood

Is there any way that we can update this section? It's seems rather threadbare and should have more detailed information. For example, the notion that Elvis copied his style from Captain Marvel seems fairly incredulous and has been mentioned only by one author. I'll try to update the section myself but would appreciate editorial help.

Lochdale

Banning the Beatles from America

Surely the article should mention how Presley wrote to Nixon requesting a meeting, and then asked the President to ban the Beatles from the States. We should also mention how he wrote to J. Edgar Hoover requesting to join the FBI during its campaign against political dissent.

Do you have a citation for this? I have never heard it suggested that Elvis wanted to ban the Beatles from America. Seeing how he had met them before an quite liked them it seems very strange. Lochdale

Yes, it's all in the Nixon tapes. Apparently it was because of their political activism and drug use, but Paul and Ringo said the only threat was to his career.

THE BEATLES>ELVIS PRESLY

Yeah, Elvis was garbage..It's a fact that The Beatles Was the BIGGEST act in the 20th century..Oh and btw..The Beatles were HUGE fans of Elvis :)

Not after they found he was trying to have them deported, just check the Beatles Anthology.

No, I know what your talking about, John Lennon.....Not the BAND itself..But just John Lennon for his political activism. Like Paul Mccartney for example, still, and forever will..Respects him..Oh and btw..John Lennon gave props to Elvis by saying "before Elvis, there was nothing" He said that AFTER he was aware that elvis was trying to remove him.

Lennon also said, "Elvis really died the day he joined the army, that's when they killed him and the rest was a living death". You can check out on imdb.com what Sir Paul and Ringo had to say about Elvis trying to ban the Beatles from America in 1970. 195.93.21.67 21:20, March 7, 2006

Interesting sources concerning Elvis's alleged bisexuality

Here is the first issue of the Hollywood Star Magazine (1979). The cover headline says, "Elvis was bisexual: Nick Adams was his lover." Onefortyone 20:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Hollywood Star Magazine, vol 1 no 1, 1979.

Onefortyone... I can't even tell when you're being serious and when you're not. Do we really have to explain why this isn't a valid source? Please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources for complete information, but suffice it to say that a tabloid magazine is not one of them. --DDG 20:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't claim that this is a reliable source. However, this source proves that there were rumours as early as during the 1970s about Elvis's alleged bisexuality. In their 2005 Playboy magazine article, Byron Raphael and Alanna Nash also mention these early rumors. They say that Natalie Wood (1938-1981) "was not the only one to think Elvis and the guys [from the Memphis Mafia] might be homosexual, especially since Elvis often wore pancake makeup and mascara offstage to accentuate his brooding intensity, a la Tony Curtis and Rudolph Valentino, his favorite movie actors. There were also rumors that Nick Adams swung both ways, just as there had been about Adams’s good pal (and Elvis’s idol) James Dean. Tongues wagged that Elvis and Adams were getting it on." According to Peter Whitmer's book, The Inner Elvis: A Psychological Biography of Elvis Aaron Presley, Phyllis Diller said that if Elvis's twin had lived, I am sure that he "would have been gay." Further, there are lots of photographs which prove how intimate the relationship between Presley and Adams was. This photograph shows Elvis laying his arm around Nick Adams's shoulders. This one is a private snapshot of the two men riding together on a motorcycle. In this photograph they are sitting together in a car. Onefortyone 22:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Claim by Onefortyone, the ArbCom-convicted liar:

• Let's see: Published in 1979, two years after Presley died and after Nick Adams had been dead for eleven years. At the time its gay publisher William Kern was hiding behind the name "Bill Dakota" he was also hiding behind U.S. libel laws that allow anyone to fabricate anything about a deceased person. And, oh yes, Alanna Nash made no such claim (another lie by Onefortyone) in Byron Raphael's Playboy article quoted out of context here (as Onefortyone regularly does) but thanks to this magazine cover, we now know where Byron Raphael got his information! - 12:56, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't call me a liar, Ted, as this is a personal attack. You are again denigrating my sources as you did in the past. The Playboy article was written by Byron Raphael with Alanna Nash. As Raphael is not a professional writer, it is clear that most parts of the text are from the pen of Nash. Onefortyone 16:43, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

FACT: You were convicted for lying by the Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee for fabricating information that you deliberately inserted into articles to perpetuate your agenda and to mislead readers and you continue to do so. And, I repeat that Alanna Nash made no such claim, ever. - Ted Wilkes 17:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I read that Elvis had sex with Nick Adams and even his own mother. Perhaps the article should mention those revelations as well as the charges of racism and stealing black music. 195.93.21.67 21:25, March 7, 2006