Talk:Emoticon

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normative isues in lists

Hi All,

I was pretty confused over the recent cleanup of the emoticon page. I thought the tables of emoticons that were in previous versions of the page Emoticon, were just fine and in fact I became accustomed to them being there at my leisure. Until today, I had no idea that someone had moved those tables to the page List_of_common_emoticons.

Look at what Mel Etitis said in his post 'Recent clean-up': 

      "this is suppsoed to be an article on emoticons, 
      not a directory of them."

That is awfully Normative. I can't imagine anyone being the authority on emoticons or the proper repository of them. In fact, the move was just confusing to me. I thought the page Emoticon was a fine place to actually find emoticons. That detracted from my 'wiki-experience,' and look, I dont even work here, im just a normal web-surfer... Thus, I believe Mel's explanation in this regard is an example of the Naturalistic_fallacy.

Also look at what Mike said in 'I think some changes need to be made on Common Examples': 

      "A lot of these really aren't that "common". 
      I believe the list either needs to be shortened 
      or expanded to accurately reflect the use of 
      emoticons on the internet."

That line of reasoning has ambled away from reality, perhaps fantastically. I cannot image a better way to collect the accurate use of emoticons on the web than to have a wikipedia page where people can contribute emoticons to the collective knowledge base! Think of the solution to that dilemma: should we have a table of emoticons and their weigthed usages too? Who amongst you would propose to empirically acertain those weights? Should such a table be inserted into the page, Emoticon or perhaps under List_of_common_emoticons, or even better, a new page entitled Comparison_of_Emotional_Icons.

Mike, come on: "A few examples for illustrative purposes are fine, but the situation had become silly. Moreover, the lists were a magnet for anons adding their personal favourites, often used only by them and their friends."

That's what an emoticon is...

Emoticon

Emotion Icon?

69.221.114.176 21:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ツ

anyone knows where the use of ツ came from? →AzaToth 20:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's just a single Japanese letter, so I'd assume it's simply a case of non-Japanese speakers misusing it. 75.153.221.227 06:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's usually used as a handwave. Sort of like (^_^)/, except it's (^^)ツ. The dashes are supposed to represent movement -- febOBJECTION! 15:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is a japanese symbol for...the letter-phrase "Tsu" in Katakana

So if you spelled "Tsuki" It'd start with the ツ symbol.

I'm a freak when it comes to Japanese so....wee

And it is.....but in a way, it's the English-person's way of modifying =) or :)

Okay, well...just thought I'd say that. go to http://www.magnifythelord.org/cma/Nihongo_files/image011.gif for other symbols --Mandirjs 00:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's also sometimes used in the half-width form with ノ(no) like this: (^_^)ﾉﾂ but ｼ (shi) looks better than ﾂ (tsu) in that case (^_^)ﾉｼ ·:RedAugust 13:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dumbstruck Smiley

I'm new to this, so could someone change the label of the dumbstruck smiley back to "shrugs" or at least include it in the label? It is way more fitting than dumbstruck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.38.24.153 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cs abusers

It seems that some wad keeps deleting various emoticons it does not seem to like. myob or speak up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.201.64 (talk • contribs) 16:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Animated Emoticon Generators

Here is a good link with animated emoticon generators, maybe it should be included - www.mywlm.com/emoticons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.249.4 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Verbal Mashup

The word is portmanteau. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teamcoltra (talk • contribs) 03:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I AM SHOCKED AND DISAPPOINTED

at the lack of >8^( and v¯v. 75.153.221.227 06:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think some changes need to be made on Common Examples.

A lot of these really aren't that "common". I believe the list either needs to be shortened or expanded to accurately reflect the use of emoticons on the internet. Basically, I think the problem arises from the fact that different groups or cliques across the internet (and by that I mean large groups not simply circles of friends) use entirely different sets of emoticons that they consider common. Point in question: the commonality of something like "c:". Around my stomping ground, I see it being used quite frequently as a sort of variation on the traditional ":)" smiley. I understand why the addition of this could be considered OR, but at the same time I don't think lists made by instant messaging services are really accurate sources. Personally, I support expansion of the list or creation of a new one. Your opinions please. —PokiToki (talk • contribs) 22:55, 22 February 2007.

I mostly agree - this particular article draws a lot of OR & Ascii art as well as valid but less than "common" examples - people all want their example in the list, which is supposed to be examples only, not comprehensive. I personally feel the answer is to remove nearly all the "examples" from this article and create a separate "Lists of Emoticons" article with sections for various types - the benefits: the new article would be more friendly to less common additions & would draw them away from here --Invisifan 01:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There are emoticons out there that some people have no knowledge of, like @:) (man with a turban), which could also be included. Wikizilla (Talk)signme! 20:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is one other emoticon that I would suggest could be included here as I see it frequently - the wink ;-) Having a separate list of emoticons is better than cluttering up this page. --Mike 01:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Smiley

Smiley#Smileys using computer keys links here, why is this article not then incorporated in Smiley or renamed Smileys using computer keys? What on earth is an emoticon other than a smiley? Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 17:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Patents

Patents related to emoticons are controversial and of public interest. See List_of_software_patents#Infamous_due_to_public_misconception.--Nowa 22:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But edits need to be explained (at least in an edit summary) and given proper citations. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mel, Thanks for your note. Is there anything in particular that needs a citation that isn't already cited?--Nowa 01:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that when an edit is completely unexplained, and appears to contain no citation, it's much more likely to be reverted. In this case, the citation was embedded in the paragraph in a non-standard (not incorrect) form, and I missed it. That's one reason that always using an edit summary is a good idea (aside from courtesy to other editors). --Mel Etitis (Talk) 12:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Animated Emoticon examples

I added some new animated emoticons examples. The emoticons are from commons.wikimedia.org and licensed under GNU free license, they are in fact designed by me so copyright is approved for use on wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paulwhiteway (talk • contribs) 09:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Their addition to the article was unexplained and unsourced, as I explained each time I removed them. Why should your designs be included as examples of usage? The article isn't a gallery for people's emoticons. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 10:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the current examples of animated emoticons aren't even emoticons. I think we need some much better examples of emoticons/smileys. I dont care who's they are but the current examples are very lame. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.54.159 (talk • contribs) 10:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the asian smileys~

where did the examples of the japanese emotes go? T_T i used those~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.124.79.156 (talk) 19:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I have the same question. Where did they go? - --149.101.1.131 20:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ya me too, where'd it go? Right now, I'm using the past verison for them. 125.238.122.130 06:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I restored them for now, but the fact remains that the tables need to be cleaned up per above. WP:RS needs to be taken with a grain of salt in these cases, because in a strict interpretation, WP:RS asks for sources such as the NYTimes or an offical website--we're talking about emoticons here. However, original work is strictly prohibited. So while WP:RS can be enforced unilaterally in most cases, here we need more community consensus. Per above, I think we should extend the tables to reflect common usage accurately, perhaps with sleeker more streamlined tables (or none at all; non-table lists), perhaps some high-tech hide/show-able tables. As for rarer emoticons, we must beware original work, though not necessarily by enforcing WP:RS--if a user has never seen it, have them post a query on the talk page, and if no one else has seen it before either, then it will be deleted. --gwc 01:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent clean-up

As I said in my edit summary, this is suppsoed to be an article on emoticons, not a directory of them. A few examples for illustrative purposes are fine, but the situation had become silly. Moreover, the lists were a magnet for anons adding their personal favourites, often used only by them and their friends.

There might be a case for an article like List of common emoticons, or something of the sort, though I'm not enthusiastic. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 15:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


I copied the tables that you deleted, as well as some of the text from this article and put it in the new List of common emoticons article. Now, I'll admit that I haven't actually done any editing on Wikipedia before, other than a few typo fixes here and there. I'm also not claiming any of the content. I hope it's alright. Suiken 02:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It needs some work, but I've added a couple of templates to attract attention. As I said, I'm not convinced it's needed, but there you are. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 08:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Given the clean up, the common emoticons subsection now only contains two which have already been explained previously in the article, and thus the section would now appear completely superfluous? --80.175.250.218 12:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is highly likely that most visitors to the Emoticon article come there to decypher some emoticon that they are not yet familiar with. One could convincingly argue that utility would be better served if the article entitled Emoticon was devoted to emoticons themselves and not the history of emoticons. At the minimum, the article should give equal weight to both needs and not toss the most useful part of the article under the rubric of "cleaning up".

(.)(.)

What is the (.)(.) emoticon used for? 86.143.72.84 17:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC) that means boobs 24.58.144.25 18:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

left-handed smileys

Tell more about them! Spread the word! q: after all, many malicious software (instant messagers in particular) autoconvert traditional clean smileys to huge yellow flickering abominations. One way to hinder this (until they find it out...) is to use left-handed smileys. To date, Skype for example doesn't convert them.

Additional fact of the day: did you ever notice that c:\ can be interpreted as a left-handed smiley? C: looks a lot better than :D , besides. And what about D: , a lot more effective than :x or X( or :E

so there. --sigs —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.187.41.217 (talk) 14:38, 11 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

deviantArt emoticons

There should be a section on deviantArt emoticonists such as sereneworx, melonhead-emotion, and koffeeben 139.142.6.101 10:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bierce invented a smiley no later than 1912

<http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/as/Literature/Bierce/biercefoot.html#FN1-13> seems like reliable documentation that Ambrose Bierce invented a kind of smiley no later than 1912. But he was, sadly, like Gregor Mendel, ahead of his time.

Brilliant Bierce, as always. - Tenmiles 02:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why redirected from Less Than Three

Why does Less Than Three redirect here?67.176.141.168 02:14, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess because <3 is the "heart" emoticon --80.175.250.218 12:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History

An early example of an emoticon is in the book, Dr. Syntax, by William Combe, Frederick Warne and Company, 1878 (approx.), pp 115, Bedford Street, Strand, London. About mid-page the typesetter inserted the wink ;-) at the end of a line. Sidi j mahtrow 15:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest ASCII emoticon, not CMU but U of ILL on the PLATO system

I will have to digup my posts on PLATO NOTES system, but I was using :) and :-) as a smiley when I was at the U of I back in 1978 on the PLATO system, and I was shown it by others so it had been around a long time before 1982. When I have a post I will place it here, but 1982 was several years after it had already been in use on the PLATO system.

Both being used in chat (TERM-Talk) and in discussion groups (NOTES) as well as email.

Not sure why someone from the University of Illinois hasn't posted a response to this, and the claim of 1982 from CMU. Funny thing is that CMU had a PLATO system in the late 70's and early 80's as I recall and that's most likely where it was first seen by the CMU folks.

Kdbaumann 19:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC) After you've gone and tidied up, this will probably annoy someone, but I saw this recently: - ‹(•¿•)> - not sure what the emotion is though! Keithcaley 14:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Western Style - Common examples

the example of a smile with a tongue hanging out it depicted as :p... but I have only seen it used as :P. Does anyone else think this is the more common usage and that it should be changed, or at least noted? 24.68.249.197 19:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yeah. BTW, I think this emoticon , smiley with the tongue hanging out, it is sometimes :-P and ;-P. Regards, Blake3522 11:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eight Equals Uppercase Dee

What does "8=D" mean? --Blake3522 11:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's a crude interpretation of a phallus. ·:RedAugust 13:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is sometimes a grin emoticon. --Blake3522 13:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Use of smiley to show emotion

For example, I am not one to use the smiley ":)", but I only use it when necessary to show that I am not mad at someone. For example: 

 Thanks, but I didn't want you to play that song as a request from me on your radio show.

That message would come off as me being annoyed or angry at the DJ when in fact I feel no such way. I cannot see any way of rewording that sentence to make it come off friendlily, but with an emoticon, it can be done. 

 Thanks, but I didn't want you to play that song as a request from me on your radio show :).

The emoticon adds the emotion needed to this sentence, and I think the article could use such an example. The article has a lot about the types of emoticons, but doesn't have much about how emoticons can be used to change message meanings. --CodellTalk 07:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Sometimes smiley (^^) is missunderstood - people thinking it represents eyebrows."

what the hell is that suposed to mean? 0.o --TiagoTiago 09:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that some readers might regard this as raised eyebrows, while the writer may have meant it to represent normal eyes.
It may also be misinterpreted as female breasts, depending on the amount if "dirty phantasy" in the mind of the reader :-)
--80.134.39.145 21:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Emoticlips?" Whatever.

I suggest "Emoticlips" be expunged from the page. It does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for importance, and is essentially blatant advertising placed there, most likely by the ad agency that created the things, in a desperate attempt to make them the "next cool thing". Gregly 20:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

:(

I recall some emo-electronica band called ":(", could that be included?
~~NaN 14:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New Emoticon?

I've been seeing people using the following emoticon in some games, swapping between the 2 images formed: 

  (\_/)     (\_/)
(\(^_^)/)    /)(\
 ("")("")  ("")("")

Should it be included? Efansay---T/C/Sign Here Please 09:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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