Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 3

• Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Dispute
• Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 1
• Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 2

Tags

As this article began in UK English it must continue in said style. Until this, issues of style and issues of NPOV are cleaned up (and the article is riddled with them) the tags must stay. Is Zapatancas really claiming the article is clean? conforms to a neutral point of view? contains no original research? if he claims such things I dispute these claims, and will not accept his removal of legitimate tags without cleaning up the article, making it conform to NPOV, and without his original research in it. As for his false vandalism claims, I suggest he reads the policy on what vandalism actually is. As it is his false claims make him seem a POV warrior, which, as he is a committed PP supporter with a huge agenda around Zapatero, may well be true. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a place to either promote political beliefs or launch attacks on other editors, SqueakBox 13:22, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

SqueakBox, this is the Wikipedia and in the Wikipedia the Wikipedia's Manual of Style must be followed. We have already explained to you why you must use American English in this article and, most important of all, why you cannot mix spellings. Please, stop your childish attitude.

I must remind you that you added a NPOV tag in May and it had to be removed because nobody reported a single disputed passage. Zapatancas 12:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Not true, and we are now in November. How can you use an argument that we don't need a POV tag because the article was alright 6 months ago? Which "we" have explained that this article cannot use En spelling because Zapatancas changed it? Zapatancas and SquealingPigAttacksAgain, SqueakBox 16:32, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

You (and anybody else) did not report any disputed passage then. You do not report any disputed passage now. Do you believe you can deceive anybody? The "we" who explained you why you cannot use British English in this specific article is all the people who recently took part in the discussion about that issue. I know you archived all that discussion because you felt it to be a personal defeat. Zapatancas 08:11, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I treported the passage. Viajero had a look and agreed with me. Noen of the people who took part in the recent discussion agreed with you. Now we have ity confitrtmed Spanish kids learn Brit English it is easy to see thatb you don't know how to write in American English. You tried and it was a disaster. I archived the discussion out of space issues, as per standard procedure. What is this talk of my defeat? I thought the discussion ended with a clear consensus to use Brit English, which also follows policy (which are the rules we are duty bound to follow) which states that we should use that English which was initially used, which was clearly British English. BTW the policy also prohibiyts using sockpuppets to vandalise the user page of other users. I suggest you rwead the policies pages, as I have done, and then follow them, as I do, SqueakBox 14:15, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I do not know if you lie on purpose or if you have problems perceiving reality. Viajero did not take part in the discussion as an easy search in the archived talk shows (well, perhaps he did but you delete his edit because you did not like it).

In any case, you have proved again you are a liar for other reason. Fortunately, I am humbler than you and I can recognize my English is not perfect (not like you, who are all the time making mistakes and are unable to stop mixing spellings). Because of that, I use the spelling checker of Microsoft Word from time to time to ensure my edits do not include mistakes. So if somebody really does not know how to use American English if must be the people of Microsoft. Zapatancas 08:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

The liar here is you. Going to erase me are you? Going to fuck my dead dog in the ass are you? Zapatancas. Why not try? Oh, you donm't have the guts. If all you can do is Squeal, don't do it too loudly. Spelling won't solve your grammar problems, notr thj efact that you are defying policy both in attacking me wioth your nasty sockpuppets and by changing the spelling of the article from en to us, SqueakBox 15:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I just started the cleanup. There is masses to do. The article is POV and does not conform to wiki style. I am coming tio the conclusion that it has been written in Spanish English, which is not a native form and therefore has no place in any wikipedia articles. Foreigners must always expect their grammar and use of language to be corrected by native speakers. I expect and accept that. The idea that putting the tags on is vandalism is lamentable. Is zapatancas claiming the article must stay as it is. tghe section title is not Personal Life and Youth it is Personal life and youth. That is the standard, abnd therefore the tags must stay, or does Zapatancas want to single handedly change wikipedia standards too, SqueakBox 16:05, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

SqueakBox, are you inventing a new language or is your keyboard broken? It is becoming more difficult everyday to understand your poor English and your spelling and grammar mistakes.

Another thing, the article, according to you, is not POV but invisible POV. You have never reported any single passage in more than six months of attacks.

Regarding the capitalized titles, they were first introduced by Pbhayani, whose contributions were defined as superb by you. Since then, they were removed by other users (not by you) until November 16, 2005 when a user from the IP address 140.247.42.158 (located in Massachusetts, US; it does look Spanish, doesn't it?) introduced that title "Personal Life and Youth" you find so disgusting. Furthermore, capitals are used far less often in Spanish than in English. Your bad faith, again, becomes evident.

In any case, you have proved again you don't master your own language. In English, capitals are used when a noun refers to a unique object. That's why mother is capitalized in the following sentence: "My Mother sent me to other continent because she did not bear me any longer". The person who talks is unique and, as a consequence, his mother is also unique, because of that, as mother is really substituting the speaker's mother's name, it must be capitalized.

Something similar happens with the Spanish Civil War (you are talking about a unique war) or the National Hydrological Plan (it again is something specific). So, why instead of wasting others' time you don't go back to school? Zapatancas 08:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

I am clearly not the first person Zapatancas is making false claims of vandalsim against; evidence is emerging that he does the same with other users. When he was User:Zapatero he was doing exactly the same thing, claiming legitimate edits like this [1] were vandalsim and making false reports tot hat effect [2]. He has used at least 4 accouints now to intimidate other users so that he drives them away and gets his absolute way over how this article will be. There is clearly enough evidence emerging to try to take the case to arbitration and seek a permanent ban on him editing this article with which he is clearly obsessed, as users like this who go out of their way to make life thoroughly unpleasant for other users need not be tolerated at wikipedia, SqueakBox 14:39, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

SqueakBox, your edit summary talks about a "death threat". I can't find one. What are you referring to? - Tεxτurε 16:26, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I am referring to the edit summary in this edit I haven't read the content. User:SquealingPig came into action within an hour of Zapatancas getting angry at mje for daring to edit his work here, and given the style of User:SquealingPigAttacksAgain I have no doubts that this is also Zapatancas, though the only way of getting a developer to prove it would be taking the case to Rfc as a preparation to take it to the Arbcom, but this kind of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable, SqueakBox 16:49, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a death threat all right. - Tεxτurε 17:39, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

You can send a request to User:David Gerard to check the IP history of both users. - Tεxτurε 17:43, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I may be wrong but I believe I would need to biuld a case againt Zapatero/Zapatancas for the Rfa before David would check out these rogue sockpuppets, and right now I haven't the time or the energy to prepare a case against him. I would welcome someone else asking David. perhaps Zapatancas would like to prove his innocence by asking himself. I think the problem David has is being overwhelmed by requests. I am aware that there is a very strong case to take Zapatancas to Rfa, and if it is proven that these are his sockpuppets he will most likely face a ban for his incredible behaviour. So I am really just thinking about it aty the moment, SqueakBox 14:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course you have no time. You feel defeated in the issue about the spelling and you prepare the sockpuppet yourself. The killer going to the police? Neither SqueakBox makes mistakes like those. Zapatancas 08:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

You area so deviant I don't want ot know. You cre4ated your sock[puppets. You think the police aren't interetsed in your death threats. You think wikipedia doesn't have the proof of your criminal activities and behaviour. Wrong on both counts. Doi you want to ruin your life? SqueakBox 15:28, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Franco statue

Is the dictatorship statue retirement important enough to appear in the first briefing? It caused some controversy, but I don't think it had real consequence for the citizens. Maybe it should appear somewhere below...

And, maybe it is my poor English understanding, but "Francisco Franco, the former military dictator", sounds me as if Zapatero's government came directly after Franco's. Am I wrong?

I believe you are right when you say that the comment about Franco's statue should be placed below. However, you have to ask SqueakBox for permission before editing anything in the article. (And also in the talk page, he likes deleting the arguments he feels he cannot answer).

Regarding the use of 'former' I believe that it can be translated into Spanish like 'antiguo'. For example, I have tried to search in Google for "the former president Lincoln" and I have obtained a lot of results, although, evidently, Lincoln has been dead for a lot of time. Zapatancas 12:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Proofs showing bad faith

SqueakBox has proven again he acts in bad faith. He claims I have accused other users of vandalisms with no reason when the fact is that the last time this article suffered vandalism four users defined it as such (and one of them was the very vandal!). Some months ago, an anonymous user kept recovering again and again an old, incomplete, full of mistakes version of the article, preventing everybody from contributing to the article. (Including SqueakBox himself, because his version of January 10, 2005 under the nick of SquikiFox was removed next day, on January 11, by 82.152.51.210, one of the several addresses the “vandal” used.) Due to this situation, in the talk page corresponding to the IP address 80.58.14.170, fvw (not me) posted the following:

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. &#0xfeff;--fvw* 01:20, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)

Please have a look at NPOV. If there are any untrue facts in the article [about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero], correct them. If there are opinions you disagree with, balance them according to our NPOV policy. &#0xfeff;--fvw* 02:08, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)

He did not change his behavior so I had to ask for a Third Opinion. The result was that another user posted this in the talk page of this article:

Outside opinión

I know little about the article topic. But it does appear that one person is going against consensus. That is not the Wikipedia way.

I would suggest that instead of deleting or reverting, a better way is to note on the talk page any specific objections. Maurreen 18:14, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As the user did not change his attitude I decided to warn him I would report his behavior as vandalism in the talk page of the IP address he used the most, in the talk page of this article and in the summaries of the history page. He continued his attacks what moved me to write this Dispute page and to report his behavior. Although he was never blocked, all these efforts finally changed his behavior. He started to use the talk page where he posted the following:

"I haven´t used this disccusion forum before just cause I didn´t knew how did it works. I´ll kept on learning how to do it."

That is, he recognized he had never used the talk page (the only available mechanism to solve disputes) and that, unwillingly as it seems, he had never tried to reach a consensus. In any case, once it was possible to begin a fruitful dialogue he realized that some data he believed to be biased or untrue were simply the pure truth. For example, he could not believe that Zapatero's Government had voted in favor of a resolution asking all UN countries to send troops to Iraq after he had ordered the Spanish soldiers there to return. However, the article he was removing included a link to the Resolution 1546 and the text of the "controversial" articles. Finally, he stopped reverting to the old version, what in my opinion is a tacit recognition of how unacceptable his previous behavior had been.

In my opinion, it is easy to understand what is really behind SqueakBox’s claims. His problem is that he feels frustrated and, as he feels lonely in the real world, he tries to forget his inferiority complex harassing other users.

In fact, I believe the only reason why he has created so many problems here is that before his first attack he did not read the bottom of the talk page, so he did not realize a consensus about the controversial issues had been reached long ago. I have observed that he likes harassing users he believes are easy preys. For example, some time ago, he harassed KapilTagore who contributed to the article on Fidel Castro. When KapilTagore added sourced information about Fidel Castro’s personal wealth he removed it immediately without justifying his decision, as can be seen here. Why did he harass KapilTagore? Because several people among those editing the article on Castro were against him. He thought: "It will be easy to insult this person; I have a lot of people who will welcome my acts of aggression against him". And he has harassed me because he thought exactly the same. However, he made a terrible mistake this time because nobody was against me either here or in the rest of the Wikipedia. As I have already said, every controversial point had been discussed and solved long before his attack.

Moreover, when he first added a NPOV tag on May, nobody, including him, ever reported a single disputed passage. This can be checked here. Another piece of evidence of his bad faith.

I believe he is falsely accusing me of vandalism with no proofs because, recently, he tried to change unilaterally the spelling of the article from American to British. When he asked other users to contribute their opinion nobody supported him and his arguments were described as absurd (for example, SqueakBox defended that the article had to be written in British English because Spain belongs to the European Community, something completely nonsensical). As he felt humiliated for his defeat he is trying to retaliate now.

The ultimate proof of SqueakBox's intentions is the following message posted in my user page (as can be checked in User_talk:Zapatancas_Archive):

If you apologise for the SquealingPig episode and don't attack me on your user page or elsewhere I am happy to let you be on the Zapatero article, by which I mean I would remove it from my watchlist, SqueakBox 18:23, July 26, 2005 (UTC)18:14, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I believe he has made clear what he thinks of his contributions to this article. SqueakBox, I have no more patience left for you so I am going to report your behavior and I will not stop until a vandal like you is finally blocked. Zapatancas 12:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

You have already stated you are going to erase me if I continue to work at wikipedia. I have no idea what you are talking about here but I find your imputing UK IP numbers very funny. I am not that technical that I can use proxy IP's in order to edit wikipedia, and actually Zapatancas is far closer to the UK than I am or indeed have been for years. So just for the record, though you know this already, I live in Honduras, about 6000 miles from the UK. Please stop cluttering up this page with idiocy. Instead of apologising about squeal;ingPig you created SquealingPigAttacksAgain. Perhaps in your logic doing that will help your case getting me banned as a vandal for edits done by someone else half way round the world. What a lovely chap, with his charming sockpuppets, SqueakBox 16:01, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

If you continue insulting me I will have to report your behavior. Zapatancas 08:11, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

This is not insult it is fact. Are you denying that ypou are SquealingPig and squeal;ingPig AttacksAgain? Who will believe you. Your are not the first person to use despicable sockpuppets. Do you honestly think your denials have any relevancde. You have to learn to take responsibnility fopr your actions and stop insulting me (I am going to erase you, you are a piece of shit, ad nauseam. I would welcome you to report my proveable allegations as you will then sa\ve me the work of having to put a case against you with the arbcom myself. Your behaviour has gone way beyond the realms opf decency, morality, etc, and you will pay the consequences for your errant behaviour if you continue down this path, Squeakling Zapatancas, SqueakBox 14:08, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

SqueakBox, you are not going to solve your real problems with that self-damaging attitude. Zapatancas 08:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Who are you kidding? I have no problems. You, on the other hand, have the somewhat hopeless problem of trying to prove you are not SquealingPig and SquealingPigAttacksAgain. You should have thought of that before creating your nasty sockpuppets. Now you have to face the consequences of your deviant, criminal-like actions, SqueakBox 15:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism lie

As we all know the false vandalsim accuser is a POV motivated troll. Zaopatancas keeps accusing me of vandalsim, something wikipedia has an excellent record of fighting vandalsim. therefore it is funny that nobody reverts or touches my alleged vandalsim opther than Zapatancas. It obviously isn't vandalsim. i know already from the squealing episodes that Zapatancas is a criminalistic highly deviant liar. These false allegations merely prove it, SqueakBox 15:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Excuse me, but is it me who have to prove I am innocent? SqueakBox (or perhaps I should say SquealingPig or SquealingPigAttacksAgain, as you dare not ask for a user check) in the civilized countries it is always the other way around. I know that does not make things easy for dirty people with dirty aims. But life is never easy for that kind of people. You know a lot about having a difficult, lonely life, don't you, SqueakBox? Zapatancas 08:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)