Talk:Kielce pogrom

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2022

Under the section "Evidence of Soviet Involvement" there is a "citation needed" at the end of the sentence "(the pogrom happened on 4 July, the same day the Katyn case started in Nuremberg, after the Soviet prosecutors falsely accused the Nazis of the massacre which was actually committed by the Soviets themselves in 1940)." for the Katyn Massacre mentioned at the Nuremberg Trials providing motive for Soviet involvement. This reference "https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/07-01-46.asp" provides evidence for that assertion. 2601:58C:4201:2400:8F8:77A5:A5CC:4E2B (talk) 15:28, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

This is a 24,000-word page. Do you have a particular place to pay attention to? This is a case of "I ain't reading all that". SWinxy (talk) 05:04, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Gonna procedurally mark this request answered as we are awaiting input from the IP. —Sirdog (talk) 05:30, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

All you have to do is control "f" the quote I provided. There is a missing citation at the end of the second to last paragraph of the section "Evidence of Soviet Involvement". Insert the citation I provided. —2601:58C:4201:2400:8F8:77A5:A5CC:4E2B (talk) 11:38, 24 August 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:58C:4201:2400:4449:66CE:1EE1:2B1F (talk)

Evidence of Soviet involvement

An analysis of sources:

• Krzysztof Kąkolewski

• Our article says, Kąkolewski was a Polish author, life-long scholar, investigative journalist considered the pillar of the Polish school of reportage, as well as dramatist and screenwriter. Quite a description but being a historian is not one of them.

• Tadeusz Piotrowski, Poland's Holocaust

• Not usable. Lambasted by two specialists; the sole admiration is from Cienciala who is a noted scholar but not an expert in the domain.

• Anne Applebaum

• Pop-historians; seriously?

• A primary source from IPN.

• ?

• Aleksander Wat

• Our article says, Wat was a Polish poet, writer, art theoretician, memorist, and one of the precursors of the Polish futurism movement in the early 1920s, considered to be one of the more important Polish writers of the mid 20th century. Undoubtedly a polymath but not a historian.

• Stanisław Krajewski

• Our article says, Krajewski is a Polish philosopher, mathematician, writer, and activist of the Jewish minority in Poland. Admirable but not a historian.

• Jan Śledzianowski

• The pl.wiki bio (Google Translate) says, Śledzianowski was a Polish Roman Catholic priest of the Diocese of Kielce, sociologist, theologian, and professor of theological sciences. None of these make Śledzianowski a historian.

• Michael Checinski

• The pl.wiki bio (Google Translate) says, Checinski was an officer of the PRL military counterintelligence. [..] He worked for the RAND Corporation and George C. Marshall European Center For Security Studies. Some nat-sec guy; not a historian. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:12, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

What does Jan Grabowski — one of the most acclaimed historians in the field — say?

The theme of Polish innocence resurfaces in the Wikipedia article on the July 1946 Kielce pogrom. The deadliest pogrom in postwar Europe, this event claimed the lives of 42 Polish Jews, the majority Holocaust survivors, when a Polish mob enraged by tales of ritual murder attacked their neighbors. Misleadingly, over a fifth of the Wikipedia article comprises a subsection entitled ‘Evidence of Soviet Involvement,’ which suggests that the Kielce pogrom was somehow planned by the Soviets. This theory has been roundly rejected by all serious scholars and today finds an audience only among fringe Polish nationalists and conspiracy theorists wishing to prove that Communist Soviets, not Polish antisemitic masses, bore responsibility for the massacre.

When the topic is as controversial as this, attracting fringe crackpots, policy guides us to use the highest quality sources which, in this context, equates to works by academic historians. Instead, we have a travesty. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:15, 1 March 2023 (UTC)