Talk:Kraków: Difference between revisions

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Is there any reason to include a mention of the Balthasar Behem Codex here? It has a one sentence mention that says that it 'was recorded'. MichaelTinkler

Krakow article about Casimir III the Great is connected to Casimir II instead. Casimir II died 1194, Casimir III died 1370. There are several other places where Cas II and III are mixed up. user:H.J.

still, an impressive piece of work and well formatted

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this city called Cracow in English?Halibutt 13:26, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've also thought this way but see: Talk:Cracow. And as a matter of fact, Google search for Kraków/Krakow (English only) returns about 1,010,000 hits, while Cracow - only about 162,000. Kpalion 18:58, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It was decided there to use Krakow, which is used about 8 times as often as Kraków in English (950,000 to 130,000 with an English language restriction on Google, more in favor if you confine it to English top-level domains). Looks as though it was discussed there, then Wik moved it to Kraków a month later, even though that's not the usual English usage. It used to be Crakow but that's fallen out of use, now getting only 3,220 estimated Google hits. It's unlikely that Kraków will replace Krakow in English text, because ó isn't on English keyboards. Jamesday 06:22, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

But if we write Krakow instead of Cracow then why not use the correct Polish spelling? Nobody forces English speakers to write Kraków but at least they will know that this is the correct way to write it. --Kpalion 08:22, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I've culled the following external links from the article. They have no place in it, but I don't have the heart to delete them entirely.

The most important schools of higher education are:

The most important and popular schools of secondary education are :

Perhaps the coplleges should not be there, but the Universities? Why not? Halibutt 11:29, 12 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup

I added a {{cleanup}} tag to this article. So far it is more a repository of ASCII links than a wiki article. I believe most of the links should be either erased or simply moved to separate articles like Culture of Kraków, Education in Kraków and so on. Any volunteers? Any ideas? [[User:Halibutt|[[User:Halibutt|User:Halibutt/sig]]]] 19:12, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Spam

3/4 of the last 50 edits [2] are related to inserting and removing the www.cracowonline.com link. There are some ways to solve that problem without protecting the page, see: Wikipedia:Spam#External link spamming (“If you see a bot inserting external links, please consider checking the other language wikis to see if the attack is widespread. If it is, contact a developer: they can put in a site-wide text filter.”). Rafał Pocztarski 10:45, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I added the request for a filer on meta.wiki. --Gene s 11:07, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Spelling / misspeling

A Google search for "Krakow", "Cracow", etc + "Poland" -"Wikipedia" and restricted to English language sites, results in:

Krakow   1 120 000    
Cracow     257 000    
Kraków     190 000    
Krakau      26 000    
Kracow       7 870    
Crakow       6 300    
Cracov       4 300    
Krakov       3 800    
Crackow      1 170    
Krackow        705    
Krokow         574    
Krakoff        529    
Krakaw         302    
Krokov         135    
Kraców         131    
Crakov          88    
Cracaw          75    
Craców          63    
Krakóv          63    
Kracov          53    
Krackov         30    
Krakuv          16

And now there's a question to native English speakers: which of the above are correct English spellings and which are mere misspellings? My own guess is that the correct, traditional English name of the city is Cracow which is, however, gradually falling out of use (I don't know why) in favor of the Polish name Kraków which English speaker usually misspell as Krakow. But I'd like to hear someone else's opinion on this. – Kpalion (talk) 16:59, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The only spelling I've ever seen in English is Cracow. I've seen no evidence that it's changing to Kraków (which includes accents unknown to English). Why then is the article headed Kraków? It seems that either Wikipedia, many involved in Wikipedia or a noisy few Wikipedians have decided that it is somehow rude to use English words for foreign cities when speaking English. Do Poles use London or Londyn when speaking Polish? They use Londyn. This does not offend me so why are they offended by Cracow? Avalon 20:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Contrary to countless other articles, I guess nobody is really passionate about whichever name we chose for this article. The rationale for chosing Kraków instead of Krakow was that this way we could have two squirrels in one hand. And the name apparently stuck since it's correct for the Poles and - to be frank - the Brits or Americans do not notice the diacrite anyway... Halibu tt 00:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As a Brit, can I just say that I do notice diacritics? (But that's just me. I think you're right, Halibutt: most Brits either don't notice them or view them as quaint decoration.) I have noticed that "Cracow" is not often used in present-day British writing - it actually feels a bit antiquated or affected. It's almost always "Krakow" now, and hardly ever "Kraków" (which feels slightly affected). But personally I always try to use the diacritic if I can discover where it is on the keyboard. --A bit iffy 01:48, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Should we change Warsaw to Warszawa, or are we lacking enough google hits to do so? Dr. Dan 13:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dan, I don't really get what's your point here. As has been proven above, the current title is quite good in that it's acceptable to both Poles and Brits. On the other hand you might want to propose to move the article (use Talk:Warsaw for that), though I wouldn't expect much support for that if I were you. //Halibu tt 07:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My point is quite simple. The name for Krakow in English has always be Cracow, and has been so, for ages. Long before Wikipedia, the internet, and "google hits" were available. In the meantime, "somebody" didn't like the looks of Cracow or the sound of it, and decided to change it. Maybe the "Cow", was unacceptable. Maybe the "Crac". As for the line the current title is quite good in that it's acceptable to both Poles and Brits, give me a break. Its laughable. When this "group" of Poles and Brits decide to change Cow to Krowa, and there's a "vote" on it, I will abstain. Dr. Dan 14:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Names change, Dan. Live with it. For centuries the English name for what is not Vilnius was Vilna. And what? People use Vilnius nowadays. Same with lots of other place names in the world. I must say I like Cracow more as it's kind of old-stylish. However, the above discussion is quite instructive on the matter, isn't it. //Halibu tt 16:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree with Dr. Dan's sentiments. Sadly though, I think Cracow has already lost out in a period predating the Polish wikipedia cabal. Krakow has largely replaced it; moreover, if you add the cabal's cherished slippery slope fallacy, this means the wiki title will stay at Kraków. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 16:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More on the Kraków theme...

...why isn't the IPA rendering of the word shown? It's used pretty much everywhere on wikipedia for such articles.--Deridolus 07:31, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It is now :) //Halibu tt

City government

There should be a section on city government, preferably merged with the Politics section.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 19:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 92: / Line 92: @@
 ::Names change, Dan. Live with it. For centuries the English name for what is not Vilnius was Vilna. And what? People use Vilnius nowadays. Same with lots of other place names in the world. I must say I like ''Cracow'' more as it's kind of old-stylish. However, the above discussion is quite instructive on the matter, isn't it. ''<font color="#990011">//</font>''[[User:Halibutt|Halibu]][[User talk:Halibutt|tt]] 16:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
+::I do agree with Dr. Dan's sentiments. Sadly though, I think Cracow has already lost out in a period predating the Polish wikipedia cabal. Krakow has largely replaced it; moreover, if you add the cabal's cherished [[slippery slope fallacy]], this means the wiki title will stay at Kraków. '''[[User:Calgacus|Calgacus]] (''[[User talk:Calgacus|ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ]]'')''' 16:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 == More on the Kraków theme... ==