Talk:Palestinian refugees

This article is a frequent source of heated debate. Please try to keep a cool head when commenting here.

Forced Migration Review

I stumbled across this source from the Forced Migration Review by University of Oxford's Department of International Development (ODID). It's from 2006 but is has about 30 high quality articles covering various aspects of Palestinian displacement. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality

Very biased and one-sided article, e.g. the section "Israeli view" cites people who question the official Israeli position. No where in the article is mentioned, that no other group of refugees is able to inherit their refugee status to their children, but the Palestinians. --78.104.63.52 (talk) 00:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, article does not provide any legal grounds of claimed, in the very first sentence of the article actually, expansion of refugee status to descendants of Palestinian refugees. Would suggest to elaborate on this item. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.45.114.130 (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Find a reliable source and do it then. There is nothing stopping you. Sean.hoyland - talk 11:57, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

There is, actually. I do no share an opinion that descendants are refugees. So, whoever, claims they are, as the current text states, should provide "reliable source(s)" in support of his opinion not vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.45.114.130 (talk) 18:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

The major role played by the Palestinian people's movement

A neutral representation of history means including all known facts. It seems unreasonable to me to suggest that the Palestinian refugee problem was largely caused by some evil Jewish leaders. Rather, the opposite seems to be true. From the '20s and until today, Arab leaders have not stopped to attack and denounce Israel and its Jewish population. Thus, there is an imbalance here, when one compares the media reports of such attacks and denounciations with what is written here. This people's encyclopedia MUST inform the public about the start and the existence of the Palestinian people's movement. Under Husseini (dubbed 'the Arab Hitler' by the Brits), this organization acted to murder as many Jews as possible in preparation for the Caliphate. I would consider it completely amiss to NOT mention Husseini's name in this context. Firstly, Husseini was, historically, the FOUNDER of the Arab "resistance" (a euphemism for jihad). Secondly, he was the highest leader of the Palestinian Arabs and as such he was the major force tearing the Arab-Jewish society of Palestine apart during the entire period of 1920-1948. --212.64.94.231 (talk) 20:35, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

About the danger of politization

For reasons of political dispute or disagreement, Paul Kuiper has decided that my relevant contributions on the Jewish refugees and the Palestinian people's movement should be removed as "extreme POV". Paul may politically disagree with the publication of these historical facts, but that alone does not make them "POV". I consider it very relevant to mention the Jewish refugees from the 1948 war, in particular since their number exceeds that of the Palestinian Arab refugees. Also, it can not be denied that the Palestinian people's movement which was founded by Amin al Husseini is fundamentally hateful of Jews and keeps discriminating against them. I think that it is very important to write about the fact of this Palestinian hatred towards Jews, since it provides the motive. In its present form, without my contributions, this article appears to blame Israel for the plight of both the Arabs and the Jews, while it clears the Arabs of all wrongdoing, even though the Arab wrongdoing is very well documented elsewhere on Wikipedia. Come-on, guys, let's get real! Just calling my contribution "POV", so you can eliminate it, without any explanation WHY you think so, is NOT in the spirit of peace, democracy and/or Wikipedia. --Uruandimi (talk) 13:33, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I have just returned my additions and I hope that any disagreement can be discussed and resolved here in a friendly manner. Don't just remove things, that is vandalism. Something struck me: in the box on the top right, "Jewish" can not be found among the refugees' religions. Of course, it is noteworthy that in a seemingly political issue over land, one of the parties excludes people who are Jewish. We can continue to ignore this obvious discrimination, or, we can perhaps find that this discrimination lies at the root of the conflict which caused the Palestinian Arabs to become refugees in the first place. --Uruandimi (talk) 08:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia based on reliable published sources. The verifiability policy for example is mandatory. Please take some time to familiarize yourself with the policies of the project before you edit articles in controversial topic areas. WP:FIVE is a good place to start. Could you also please take the time to read about the discretionary sanctions in place on all articles related to the Arab-Israel conflict. There is a link near the top of this page. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Both the Palestinian movement's discrimination against Jews and its acts of so-called resistance against them (decades before the State of Israel was founded) are extremely verifiable. So is Amin al-Husseini's role in this movement, and, so is the fact that the number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries exceeded that of the Palestinian Arabs. All this is both verifiable and relevant to the topic at hand. What is your real problem? Why do you eliminate my contributions, instead of making changes in them? --Uruandimi (talk) 08:55, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I removed your contributions because they don't comply with the mandatory policies of the project. If you read the policies of the project, particularly WP:V, WP:RS and WP:NPOV and take care to fully comply with them, there is no policy based reason for anyone to remove your contributions. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

This entry must be re-written since it is fraudulent

This entry must be re-written or immediately removed, since it does not comply with Wikipedia's most basic standards. The dubious term "Palestinian" is used even though this denomination, both as a noun and as an adjective, is fictive, fraudulent and misleading. There is absolutely no evidence that the exclusively non-Jewish national Palestinian identity, as it has been taken for granted in the past four decades, ever existed in history before 1964 (when the Palestine Liberation Organisation was founded). Nor is there any legal precedent for the retro-active imposition of a national identity upon only one group among a population. No exclusively non-Jewish national Palestinian identity existed when the leaders and members of the Arab political movement - who later called themselves "the Palestinians" - fled or were expelled from parts of the British Mandate of Palestine, shortly before or after the sovereign State of Israel was founded there. In order for this entry to comply with Wikipedia's standards of verifiability, NPOV, etc., I suggest to replace the discriminatory, utterly fraudulent denomination "Palestinian(s)" by "Arab(s)". --Uruandimi (talk) 11:56, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh for God's sake. Did you look for any evidence? Consider:

• Palestinian nationalism, Daoud Kuttab
• "the emergence of the Palestinian Arab nationalist movement during the British rule (1917-1948)" in Muslih, Muhammad Y. (1989-10). The Origins of Palestinian Nationalism. Columbia University Press. ISBN 9780231065092. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
• "Indeed, it is apparent that within a few years of the end of the First World War, a well-developed sense of Palestinian identity had already emerged" Khalidi, Rashid (2009). Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness. Columbia University Press. ISBN 9780231150750.

While you're welcome to cite and attribute statements that a Palestinian identity did not or does not exist, please refrain from using them in policy arguments. They are neither self-evident nor universally agreed to, and therefore are no basis for policy decisions on Wikipedia.--Carwil (talk) 14:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I have no problem with the Arab nationality as such, but with the exclusivity that is applied here. To pretend that the Arabs were Palestinians but the Jews were not is to commit history fraud and a hideous act of discrimination. Wikipedia is a science, and we must be able to verify that what we write is true or common. The Palestinian identity which many people seek to present as exclusively Arab and non-Jewish is neither historically true nor universally common. I will mention just one example but of course many more exist: those thousands of Palestinian Jews who in 1948 were forced to flee from their homes in Jerusalem's Old City, should definitively be included in the term "Palestinian refugees". To exclude them, even decades later, is not only heartless, unbecoming, offensive, unscientific and discriminatory, but also extremely POV. Fortunately, we can set the record straight, right here on Wikipedia. --Uruandimi (talk) 15:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)