Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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TripWire

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning TripWire

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 

D4iNa4 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 14:53, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested 

TripWire (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan:

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 

Edit warring and WP:GAMING to have consensus, continues to reinstate something for which he has gained no consensus. Such as:-

[1] reverted here:[2]

Reinstated reverted edit again[3], got reverted again[4], then reinstated same edit again[5], then reinstated once again[6] after being reverted, and again[7], while sure that he was sure that his edit will be reverted.[8]

WP:NPA, WP:SOAP violation.

"Like I have said many times, stop wasting time. The best you can do is to support socks and their contentious edits, unfortunately you'll fail in that too."[9]

"I'd suggest that you keep your Mullah Raj theory with you and act maturely."[10]

Use of very hostile language, WP:BATTLE.

"I know a dear friends of yours was blocked for socking and one does get jumpy at times."[11]

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 

1. Topic banned from all "edits related to Pakistani politics and Indian/Pakistani conflicts, for a period of 6 months".[12]

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Just came off a topic ban this year.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

Once he would realize that his topic ban is no more in force, he would go back to making those same kinds of edits that led to the topic ban, he would make three objectionable edits to Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965 at first,[13][14][15][16] then he disrupted the article Bangladesh Liberation War by edit warring and making hostile comments on talk page, after that he would falsely accuse @Volunteer Marek: of harassment.[17][18] And now he seems to be missing no chance to attack editors like @Ghatus and Kautilya3: and others. D4iNa4 (talk) 14:53, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[19]

Discussion concerning TripWire

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Kautilya3

Some general remarks concerning TripWire. As far as I can see, they are an SPA, whose contributions are limited to Indo-Pakistan conflicts. Secondly, the majority of their contribution are to edit-war over the content that the others have contributed, very little of their own content. How much of that the project can tolerate is a big question. TripWire has barely come off a 6-moth topic ban. Whether their behaviour has improved as a result is another question. I think it has. There is less edit-warring and more participation on the talk pages, even though I would say it is still far from ideal. The over-aggressive behaviour in discussions continues.

One factor that is currently playing out at the moment is that MBlaze Lightning has been indeffed, rightly, and the pro-Pakistan editors favour reverting all of his edits wholesale. I have objected to that approach and said that we need to discuss specific objections in an issue-based way. That has not gone down well with the pro-Pakistan editors, and they have taken to calling me a supporter, even a "meatpuppet," of MBlaze. However, ironically, TripWire has been forced to point out on this page how often I have opposed MBlaze and supported their stance instead. That is poetic justice, it seems.

Given that TripWire's behaviour shows improvement, I don't believe any serious sanction is warranted at this stage. However some cautionary remarks to TripWire to tone down their rhetoric and be more collaborative in their approach would be welcome. A recognition that editors like me are willing to listen to all sides would also be useful.

Statement by Freeatlast

We can see from the get go that the entire "evidence" here is fabricated.

1. The first claim of gaming cleverly and conveniently fails to say that in actuality Tripwire was undoing vandalism by a sockpuppet and trying his best to refrain from even touching the article. You will see that many of his reverts are to versions that are from uninvolved editors.
2. As far as the so called "personal attacks" go we have someone who is asking for a t-ban based on an editor saying "please act maturely". I do not know whether to laugh or cry at the copious amounts of bad faith oozing from this. This is a highly volatile area and truth be told if every editor who asked another to "act maturely" was banned from topics we will have to T-ban almost 75% of editors. So this is just a "filler" used by the nom to "beef up" his accusations, and make them look big. more space=more suspicion. The reaction usually is "There are so many diffs, he MUST have done something".
3. As far as the accusation of WP:BATTLE is concerned firstly you can see that once again it is a filler. Why not include it with NPA? no Sir! We are going to make a new accusation. Secondly it is clearly the exact opposite of what the nom claims, Tripwire is actually saying "no harm, no foul" at the end leading to quite a good faith ending to a heated discussion. Including such a diff here is mind bogglingly bad faith.

My advice is that the nom should spend time actually improving the encyclopedia instead of filling this kind of bad faith requests. I was going to suggest boomerang but then I though why ask for a block? he only comes online once or twice a week to revert etc. FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 23:54, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Capitals00

While I have nothing to say about the long and non-convincing explanations of TripWire other than that he is trying to reject any fault with his editing, he is also denying that he recently came off from a topic ban.

TripWire's discussions on talk page has been WP:BATTLEGROUND, he even prefers opening the sections with disparaging titles.[23]

His edit warring is too widespread that he removes what he doesn't like,[24] not to forget that he made four reverts only for removing an infobox image that he didn't liked,[25][26][27][28], despite he had no consensus to do that[29] and infobox image still exists on the main article.

WP:ASPERSION is being violated on this page alone.

• TripWire: "including Ghatus and Kautilya3 - both Indians"

And also false accusations of meat puppetry and sock puppetry.

• TripWire: "dragging me here to settle his personal scores on the direction of someone"[30]

I don't see how one can deal with such user after they create such a toxic environment. Blocks and topic bans are the only way. Capitals00 (talk) 09:16, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Result concerning TripWire

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• TripWire your statement is 1900 words. Reduce it to 500 or I shall cut it off at that point. Hint - spend less time casting aspertions at your opponants and just stick to explaining why you think your edits were not a vio. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Please move all your responses to your own section, I might be willing to extend your wordcount to 750 but no way can we give you license to write as much as you like. The word count is to concentrate your responses to the key matters. Sorry but you need to amalgamate your responses and edit it down to 750. Spartaz ^Humbug! 15:00, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

• FreeatlastChitchat I have hatted your section as there is ample evidence that the OP has used socks - but they have done their time and you know where SPI is if there is new cause for concern. At first blush your section appears aimed at discrediting the OP rather than discussing the complaint. I'm sure you don't really mean to expose yourself by doing that do you so I must be mistaken but please don't do it again.
• SheriffIsInTown I have removed your section entirely. Making a nationality based slur on an AE page? Really? Perhaps you could leave a short note on my talk page explaining how your participation in this area adds any value whatsoever as I'm strongly minded to impose a TBan for that edit. Please don't post to this discussion again. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:05, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
• TripWire, I moved your writing into your own section as required by the instructions here. Please pare everything down ASAP. I think you'll find that if you focus on explaining why your edits were not violations and remove any text referring to the actions of others, you will rapidly be in compliance. --Laser brain (talk) 23:29, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

MarkBernstein

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning MarkBernstein

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 

Starke Hathaway (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 17:08, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested 

MarkBernstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Discretionary_Sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 

MarkBernstein is by now an inveterate Wiki-warrior in the Gamergate topic area. He has demonstrated time and again his apparent inability to refrain from lengthy WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX diatribes about Gamergate, full of both sesquipedalian wordplay and naked aspersions against other editors, despite being asked numerous times, at numerous venues, to stop. For this he has been topic-banned, un-topic-banned, blocked, unblocked, blocked again, unblocked under conditions, given four final warnings for violating those conditions, and ultimately had the admins enforcing those conditions apparently throw up their hands in exasperation. His involvement anywhere in the Gamergate topic area invariably brings with it more heat than light. He has recently also begun interrogating journalists on twitter about their (unflattering) coverage of persons associated with the topic (Note: MarkBernstein's twitter handle is prominently listed on his personal webpage, which he links on his Wikipedia userpage). This has to stop. The following diffs are just the most recent of his grandstanding and generally disruptive behavior.

1. April 12 SOAPBOXing at Talk:Gamergate controversy.
2. April 12 Soapboxing is (properly) hatted.
3. April 12 Reverts the hat to restore the soapboxing.
4. April 10 Opposing a navbox because of "clueless Gamergate recruits."
5. April 8 SOAPBOXing at ANI about Gamergate.
6. April 8 More Gamergate SOAPBOXing at ANI, also in violation of his topic ban about DHeyward.
7. April 6 SOAPBOXing about Gamergate at ANEW, also a violation of his DHeyward topic ban.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 

1. November 28, 2014 Topic banned from Gamergate under GS:GG.
2. January 3, 2015 Blocked for violating Gamergate topic ban.
3. January 24, 2015 Blocked again for violating topic ban.
4. March 8, 2015 Topic banned from Gamergate again under Gamergate DS.
5. March 13, 2015 Topic banned under Gamergate DS from discussing DHeyward and Thargor Orlando.
6. March 21, 2015 Blocked for "topic-ban violations and repeated personally directed comments/battleground mentality" under Gamergate DS.
7. September 5, 2015 "Officially admonished" under Gamergate DS "not to be a jerk."

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Has been the subject of multiple DS enforcement requests and sanctions.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

MarkBernstein seems to believe that the righteousness of his cause overrides any concerns about civility, collaboration with others, and building the encyclopedia generally. He's been given plenty of chances to bring his behavior in line with expectations, and has declined to do so. Enough really is enough.

If we're concerned about the DHeyward topic ban, MarkBernstein was still mentioning him in comments as recently as today. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 20:13, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

The Wordsmith, I understand your hesitation to apply sanctions, especially if (as seems to be the case) you are coming to this dispute with entirely fresh eyes. The issue with MarkBernstein's behavior in this topic area is admittedly difficult to nail down in individual diffs, not least because MarkBernstein is actually quite clever and skilled at not making comments that will result in immediate sanctions for him. Nevertheless the cumulative effects of his edits, which continually fail to assume good faith from other editors and use the Gamergate talk pages for grandstanding about how awful Gamergate is rather than discussing the article, is far more disruptive than any positive contributions he has made in the topic area. MarkBernstein's modus operandi, especially since his most recent block for personal attacks and topic ban violations, is to constantly nettle those who disagree with his position on the article topic with grandstanding, insinuations about their character, and at times outright aspersions that maintain just enough deniability that he can claim he didn't mean anything by it.

You need to understand that he has now been doing this, essentially without interruption except for his blocks, for better than a year and a half. Others have been indefinitely banned from the Gamergate topic area for far, far less disruption than he has caused. In fact I would say the only reason he has escaped lasting sanction is that Gamaliel (who has pretty much always been the main admin enforcer in the Gamergate topic area) has never failed to show up and defend him whenever other editors complain, as he has here. I understand that it might be difficult to appreciate this without having seen it happen in real time, but I assure you that the exasperation you have probably noticed from me and other commenters here is both real and well-founded. It might help you to understand where we are coming from if you were to review the previous AE discussions concerning his disruptive behavior in the Gamergate topic area. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 01:30, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[41]

Discussion concerning MarkBernstein

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by MarkBernstein

Good grief!

Gamergate has repeatedly sought to use Wikipedia to harass its targets and to exculpate its actions. You may recall that the first murder threat sent to the first Gamergate target was delivered through Wikipedia. The Gamergate Controversy page, and the pages of Gamergate’s victims, continue to be used to threaten women in the software industry and to rehash their sex lives in order to demonstrate the fate that will befall women who accept employment in this field -- or indeed anyone with whom Gamergate becomes displeased.

Gamergate’s long-planned operation against "the five horsemen of wiki-bias", again thoroughly documented in newspapers, magazines, and academic journals, was rewarded last year by ArbCom’s infamous decision. In recent months, the fora used to coordinate that campaign (and some new ones) have planned a fresh assault on their new Wiki targets. An ArbCom case was brought against Gamaliel yesterday over a supposed BLP violation in the Signpost involving Donald Trump’s small hands, and (surprise!) here we are today.

Civility to other editors does not preclude condemnation of campaigns of misogynist harassment coordinated with ruthless energy on shadowy web sites and chat boards. I have worked to write firmly and honestly but -- especially since my block -- with scrupulous civility. I have done my best to find humor where I can, and have worked on-wiki and off to find a path to ending this protracted and unproductive dispute. Those overtures have been rebuffed by many, including some of those whose names appear here.

I have many calls on my time, and may occasionally and unintentionally have written ambiguously or unclearly. I apologize. I am hardly alone. I sometimes write allusively; I am accustomed to writing for an educated audience. I am sometimes sloppy; I am, after all, a volunteer. I do not apologize for writing forcefully in defense of The Wiki Way and, in point of fact, in defense of common decency.

I note in passing that scarcely a day passes in which Gamergate boards and media accounts fail to question my sanity, cast aspersions on my professional credentials, insinuate that I am a pedophile, caricature what they believe to be my religion, call for new editors to hound me on wiki and off, or speculate that I am engaged in a homosexual relationship with Gamaliel. When I have spoken at universities, Gamergaters have sent letters to their chancellors or presidents demanding that my host be fired. When I reluctantly agreed to speak at a Gamergate event (since cancelled), they openly planned my downfall in the most vivid terms. All this is childish and vexatious, but it is also fatiguing, and since Gamergate's rhetoric is prone to violence, it would be imprudent completely to ignore it all. Though a few Wikipedians have been helpful and sometimes sympathetic, Wikipedia has seldom lifted a finger to help or offered any expression of thanks for arduous work defending Wikipedia's own principles against this pernicious menace.

@Newyorkbrad: I was momentarily under the mistaken impression that the tridirectional DHeyward topic ban had been waived for noticeboard complaints. It had in fact only been waived for initiating noticeboard complaints. I did and do apologize for the error on April 6, though the remark itself was intended only to explain the subject in dispute, a context that had not to that point been made clear. On April 8, I was responding to an unprovoked personal attack from Sitush, or more accurately deflecting it with a humorous allusion to a remark that Gamaliel had made a little earlier about Gamaliel’s having once kicked DHeyward's dog. The comment is not directed at DHeyward, whose name only appears to clarify a sentence which would otherwise be obscure. No doubt I should have used one of the dog’s three different names [42] rather than identifying it by its owner (if dogs in fact share this nomenclatural oddity with cats), but I have not had the honor of being introduced to that august animal. MarkBernstein (talk) 20:06, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@StarkeHathaway: You link to a comment I made today. It contains nine sentences. The subjects of those sentences are (a) Gamergate’s actions, (b) Gamergaters, (c) Gamergate’s actions, (d) none, (e) We (few, we happy few, we editors), (f) I, (g) We, (h) We, and (i) You, dear reader. Nor is DHeyward plausibly a direct object of any of these sentences. The specific edit I am criticizing here was written by Ryk72, but the criticism applies very broadly to a number of editors who are inclined to support or excuse Gamergate’s harassment campaigns. MarkBernstein (talk) 21:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

And.... we’ve just seen what, if I can read the illiterate scrawl correctly, what appears to be a death threat arising from this charming discussion. I have notified Oversight. You folks sure expect a lot from volunteers, and we receive very scanty thanks. MarkBernstein (talk) 22:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Masem

I had brought Mark Bernstein to AE before, which resulted in the Sept 5 2015 diff linked by Starke above; I voluntarily took a break from the page for a minimum of 3 months but only returned in March 2016, when I saw a WashPost article I felt was interesting in its neutral take ([43]). That was met with ad hominem comments from Mark Bernstein (among others) that had nothing to do with the policy issues I raised. [44], [45]. Further discussion brings more of these ad hominem comments [46], [47]. In particular, this ad hominem statement is based on the original personal attack he made against me ("rape apologist") that got him blocked in November 2014 (linked by Starke above) simply because I explained the factual nature of a certain image and colors used by GG (which by no means implies that I support that, but that's how this is being taken). I want to stress again that this block occurred simultaneously to the GG Arbcom case, so his behavior was not the subject of any review there. Several of Starke's diffs are statements that continue this type of ad hominem attack against other editors as a means of discrediting them instead of talking about policy issues on what is a very difficult subject to cover by a neutral encyclopedia.

I have purposely, pursuant to the previous AE I raised and its conclusion by ArbCom, avoided any direct response to any of Mark Bernstein's comments and otherwise potentially engaging with him on any topic, simply letting them go and focusing on policy aspects with other editors. (The GG page is actually still off my watchlist to avoid any urge to engage routinely). I did this purposely to avoid recreating the situation that led to the first AE, at least from my own end. I would hope that evidence here shows that while normally it takes two to tango in heated discussions, that Mark Bernstein appears to rather snipe at editors that don't take up his very specific POV, instead of discussing the nuances with covering the topic neutrally. He is creating more discourse than needed, and he should not be participating in this topic area. --MASEM (t) 17:50, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Brustopher

@Gamaliel: I went AWOL for 4 months so I might have missed something but when did DHeyward violate the iban and not get sanctioned? I can only recall one case of him violating the IBAN (in the signpost comment) and he got blocked for that. Brustopher (talk) 20:05, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

In light of recent evidence I would support a topic ban. If MarkBerstein dislikes an editor he seems to manage to find a way to twist everything they say or write as condoning Gamergate Harassment (mainly Masem). This disappeared to an extent when Masem took a break from the topic area but now it's come back with a vengeance. Even in THIS VERY AE request he is doing so talking of "a number of editors who are inclined to support or excuse Gamergate’s harassment campaigns"!

• Take this totally benign and seemingly apolitical talk page section, in which Ryk72 suggest a navbox. MarkBernstein immeadiately spins this as an attempt to allow gamergaters to "harass people more efficiently."
• In this one he implies Masem thinks sending rape cartoons to female developers isn't harassment because rape cannot be depicted in art.[48] What Masem actually said (over a fucking year ago at that) was that he didn't think a purple and green stripes on a t-shirt of a cartoon character was something that could imply rape, in reference to this image.
• Here he is implying that because someone disagreed with him they're in on a secret Gamergate harassment plot. He does this quite a bit. If you want I can try and find all the times this occurs in the archives.[49]

Admins have raised concerns that everyone engages in such low key incivility on the talk page, but if that's the case I invite them to take us all to AE and provide diffs and the like.Brustopher (talk) 23:21, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Ryk72

@Gamaliel:, With respect, and regret, it is clear that you no longer have the required level of objectivity with regards to either the Gamergate controversy or User:MarkBernstein.[50][51][52] I respectfully request that you either strike your statements or move them from the Uninvolved Admins section to a new Statement by section. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 21:49, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by MONGO

There is such a thing as fighting the right fight in the wrong way or with excessive zeal in which we see boogeyman in places where there aren't any. A six month vacation from GG topics is long overdue for Bernstein. Its not like the topic will implode with his temporary hiatus...they may just get better.--MONGO 22:33, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Carrite

I've got no idea whatsoever, none, why Mark Bernstein has been allowed to once again edit on the Gamergate topic. The Gamergate crew may well be the biggest band of jackwagons on the planet, but NPOV is NPOV. If one can't set aside their biases, but rather continues again and again and again to engage in polemics and to make one-sided claims, it is time for that editor to be removed from that topic. We're at least a year past that juncture here. Carrite (talk) 00:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by ColorOfSuffering

This has gone on long enough. The fact that MarkBernstein is allowed anywhere near Gamergate-related articles continues to confound me. I don't have much more to add beyond the evidence that has already been provided in this and previous AE requests. MarkBernstein's behavior has not changed, and it will not change. His edits are not productive. He is frequently attacking other editors and questioning their motivations. Given the diffs provided, I don't know how anyone could expect this editor to hold even a shred of neutrality in this space. He has demonstrated time and time again that his contributions to any Gamergate-related article will never be productive due to his oft-admitted bias. WP:NPOV is a core content policy. We have to be better than this. ColorOfSuffering (talk) 00:19, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by GamerPro64

I don't think I've ever seen a comment made by MarkBernstein where he doesn't bring up GamerGate into a discussion. I think he has reached the point of obsession and should find a different topic to take part of here. I echo ColorOfSuffering's comment on his contributions on anything GamerGate being productive. I suggest topic-banning him. This has gone on far too long. GamerPro64 01:05, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Statement by CoffeeCrumbs

The editor in question already has *7* hits on his block log on this topic and Starke Hathaway could have put three times as many diffs in his statement if he wanted to -- it would actually save a good deal of space to post the diffs in which Bernstein *wasn't* soapboxing or casting aspersions on others. These are among the reasons he received those previous blocks, this isn't new behavior. If you find an uncivil Gamergate discussion, Bernstein's usually at the heart of it. Let Bernstein and his Gamergate rivals go have their feud elsewhere.

And per Ryk72, Gamaliel should not be pretending he's not personally involved in this topic and this editor. Even now, he's using Gamergate as his bogeyman in an unrelated arbitration case request against himself and requesting another administrator take concerns about his level of involvement behind closed doors rather than out in public. Gamaliel is certainly entitled to express his opinion, but not presenting it under the guise of an impartial, uninvolved administrator. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 01:59, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Result concerning MarkBernstein

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• WP:DROPTHESTICK. Gamaliel (talk) 17:55, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
• I have removed a personal attack from an IP. Casting aspersions without providing evidence is unwelcome here. As to the complaint, I'll look over the statement and diffs. I'm baffled, though, that GamerGate is still this contentious after all this time. Stricter sanctions may be necessary if editors in that area are incapable of policing their own conduct. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 18:22, 12 April 2016 (UTC) EDIT: The filer has voluntarily reinstated the comment, so i'll respect his/her wishes at this time. Future comments of this nature will, however, result in blocks. Proper decorum is not just a suggestion. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 18:24, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
• April 8 & 6 edits appear iban vios. There is unnecessary invective and battlefield language in the other diffs. Personalisation of disputes and labelling enemies might be a useful tactic in the playground or in politics but is not compatible for encouraging a collaborative environment. There have been enough warnings. I support an indef topicban from all things gamergate and a 1 week block for the Dheyward iban vios. Spartaz ^Humbug! 19:42, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• I should note that MB redacted his possible violations at the request of EdJohnston and seems to have had some confusion over the current status of the topic ban, which I did modify and was not a traditional iban in the first place. I should also note that DHeyward has also violated the ban numerous times and has not been similarly sanctioned. It would not be appropriate to impose different sanctions on different users for the very same offense. Gamaliel (talk) 19:52, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• And the vio from today that Hathaway Starke mentioned? Spartaz ^Humbug! 20:24, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• I do not believe that is a violation. I told both editors I specifically designed the ban so they could productively discuss each other's edits, so it wouldn't turn into a game of gotcha or you had a scenario where the first editor who comments on a subtopic "owns" it because the other cannot reply. In that diff I see only a mention of "DHeyward's comment" which Mark Bernstein redacted. He did not reply to it or discuss the editor, he merely mentioned an action he had taken. He could not quote the comment, because the comment in question was deemed to be a BLP violation (and later revision deleted). Gamaliel (talk) 20:40, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• One person not being sanctioned for an Interaction Ban violation has no bearing on whether or not another user should be sanctioned. If there was a separate violation by another user, then anyone is free to bring an AE request about that. However, it seems that the ban itself was not entirely clear, and perhaps clearing it up would be sufficient remedy.The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 20:05, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• Ethically, I believe it does, if we are talking about a small group of users interacting with each other in a contentious topic area. That's not "other stuff exists", that's the same stuff, in the same place. Gamaliel (talk) 20:10, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
• Also, perhaps it would be productive if we could collectively come up with a better ban that is superior to my clearly half-assed and ineffective attempt. Gamaliel (talk) 20:13, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• Lets go for a TBAN then. Simple and not open to gaming. Spartaz ^Humbug! 20:24, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• I'm disinclined to support a topic ban, but I ask Mark Bernstein to respond to the allegation regarding DHeyward. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• I also do not think the evidence presented supports a topic ban at this time, but things are getting close. Enforcing admins need to break the back of the dispute in this topic area if we want to keep Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamergate 2 a redlink. Perhaps we need to be more proactive in the future about removing tendentious editors from the topic area. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 20:05, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

• Note to editors: I have absolutely no problem invoking the "At wit's end" measure the Committee is so fond of (See WP:DIGWUREN for the first known example of this precedent) and handing topic bans out like candy. However, the evidence presented here is a little light. Provide something actionable, show me Mark or any other editor is violating policies or Arbcom rulings with clear and convincing evidence, and I'll ensure those editors are removed promptly. Enough is enough, no uninvolved admins are going to indulge the POV pushers in this topic area anymore.. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 01:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

• @Starke Hathaway: I know what you're saying, I really do. I dealt with the same type of editors when I was policing the Climate Change area. However, I'm sure you can understand that I simply can't issue a topic ban based on hearsay from involved editors; that would be against the spirit of the discretionary sanctions even contrued as broadly as possible, not to mention general Wikipedia policy. Even if I were inclined to do so it would be overturned instantly on appeal. If, as you claim, Mark is one of these editors, there must be evidence of such. Give me diffs, links to entire discussions, whatever you can find that points to tendentious editing or other policy violations. I promise I will carefully read every link and make a fair determination. I don't care if an editor is pro-, anti- or otherwise, the patience of the community has been thoroughly worn out. Few others seem willing to step on toes and take action, so I'll take up the banner again. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 02:11, 13 April 2016 (UTC)