Talk:Rojava conflict

Conflict/revolution

Rojava Revolution currently redirects here. I don't think it should, as the revolution refers more to the social changes that have come about as a result of the conflict. Konli17 (talk) 19:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I think you are on to something here. Maybe the solution to the people who dislike the term "Rojava Conflict" is to rename the article "Rojava Revolution". That way, the article allows for a little "bias", as it is about what the Kurds are doing. I personally don't mind Rojava Conflict, but I would rather the article talk about the "revolution", and have a section on the conflict, or cooperation, with the neighbours. 2605:8D80:4C0:2C9B:A433:6346:13B9:FDBA (talk) 02:31, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I was thinking more along the lines of two separate articles. Konli17 (talk) 02:34, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I guess this should be renamed to "The Kurdish occupation of northeastern Syria". Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 03:54, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

You're projecting again. Konli17 (talk) 04:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Renaming suggestion

Since the area under this article has extended way beyond the Kurdish-inhabited areas, I suggest renaming this page "Northeastern Syria conflict". Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 02:34, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you. Shadow4dark (talk) 17:15, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 10 December 2020

Rojava conflict → Northeastern Syria conflict – — Preceding unsigned comment added by عمرو بن كلثوم (talk • contribs) 18:44, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support, as the nominator. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:37, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support. The fighting is not just happening in Kurdish-inhabited areas. (Take the ongoing 2020 Ayn Issa clashes for example) Thepharoah17 (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
• Supoort for the same reason as Thephariah17. LesleyCommunist (talk) 15:29, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose — AANES has extended beyond the three original cantons of Rojava. That doesn't mean the common name for the conflict is changed. This is WP:RECENTISM at best and POV-pushing at worst. Most importantly, no policy based argument (i.e., based on the criteria at WP:AT) has been made. "Rojava conflict" is the common name according to academic sources; "Northeastern Syria conflict" is not widely used in academic sources. Levivich ^harass/_hound 21:28, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

  Levivich: I wonder whether your vote is based on WP:Canvassing effort here by indeffed (now tbanned) user u:GPinkerton who is still trying to game the system by directing/suggesting admin action in several articles. It might be wise to strike/withdraw your vote here. The reasons for the requested move are clearly given above. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 22:58, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

  Yes that ping is how I was alerted to this and then I went through the list of pending RMs specifically looking for Kurdish-related ones to !vote on. The ping didn't decide my !vote, however, and I don't think it was canvassing (the purpose of the ping wasn't to get me to !vote, it was to bring attention to your actions). I think this RM (and other related ones) should have been advertised on related pages like Syrian Kurdistan and AANES. GPink has a tban, but then you are also partially blocked from Syrian Kurdistan and while that's not a tban, I'm not sure it's 100% legit for you to be opening RMs on related topics, which was the reason for the ping in the first place. Like I said on GPink's talk page, I'm starting to think that an arbcom case is a good idea for this topic area. Levivich ^harass/_hound 23:21, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I'll ignore the personal part of your edit here. I just advertised this discussion on the Talk page of AANES, but I am blocked from the Syrian Kurdistan page. Feel free to do so. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 23:48, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done Levivich ^harass/_hound 00:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

• support current name is not ussed anymore. Shadow4dark (talk) 23:45, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose I am pretty sure Rojava conflict gets way more hits than North Eastern Syria conflict. But also the article seems a mix of several conflicts. The page may need an overhaul to address the core of the conflict which is the dispute between the approving and opposing factions of the AANES policies.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 00:18, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. The majority of the events described in this article are related to the social transformations (the AANES would argue a “Revolution”) taking place within Rojava – which is the WP:COMMONNAME colloquially in English for both the region controlled by the AANES and separately what is perceived as “Western Kurdistan” within the wider conception of Kurdistan. The article used to make note of this fact in the lead, until Thepharoah17 removed mention of that (here --> 1, 2) after voting on this request. Which is against the spirit of such a debate, to craft the article in favor of your position while the matter is being considered. As for the suggested name, it is factually incorrect. As 2 of the 3 founding cantons (Afrin & Kobani) were not even in Northeastern Syria but rather in the North-central and Northwest, along with most of the fighting (i.e. “conflict”) which the article ostensibly refers to.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 08:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support move. "Rojava" is not a real name for an area in Syria. The real official name for Syria is Syria. Also there is conflicts outside the Kurdish-inhabited regions in northeastern Syria.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:46, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Supreme Deliciousness, I would like to point out the obvious logical inconsistency that you just stated: “there is conflicts outside the Kurdish-inhabited regions in northeastern Syria”, while literally voting to support renaming the article “Northeastern Syria conflict”.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

No, there is no inconsistency. Obviously, northeastern Syria is much larger than the Kurdish-inhabited enclaves in/around Kobani-Ayn al-Arab, northern Jazira and Afrin. For example, al-Hasakah city and district are largely Arab. Tell Abyad and Ras al-Ayn are predominantly Arab. I can keep going. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 19:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Supreme Deliciousness, Kobani is not even in Northeastern Syria, on a compass axis it is clearly west of center. Nor is Afrin (extreme Northwest). So while you are addressing why you don’t like “Rojava”, you are also arguing against your own viewpoint on why the article should not be called “Northeastern Syria conflict”, since these conflicts are not within that area.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 19:49, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Another major reason to rename this article is that the use of term "rojava" is POV-pushing per se, and not neutral as an encyclopedia is supposed to be. According to Michael Gunter (2014) (p. 7): Among pan-Kurdish nationalists, Syrian Kurdistan is often referred to as Western Kurdistan or Rojava (the direction of the setting sun). Kobani-Ayn al-Arab is east of the Euphrates, which makes it in northeastern Syria. As for Afrin, it's story has been separate from the rest since day one, and saw only two events (control of PYD and then control of SNA/Turkish army), so could use a separate article. If you insist on keeping Afrin in this article, we then could use "Northern Syria conflict". Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 20:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)