Talk:Turkish Cypriots

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Improvements required!

This article needs to be improved. I have recently finished improving the Turks in Germany, Turks in Austria and Turks in the Netherlands articles, and will now move onto this article. The more who help the better this artile will be. Thetruthonly (talk) 14:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I've done my best to help improve the article. However, I think that we now need to imporve the article on the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus; it's poorly written and referenced.Turco85 (Talk) 11:42, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Template:POV-check

I have now removed this template. All material in the histroy section is referenced.Turco85 (Talk) 11:19, 9 October 2010 (UTC) Turks should leave Cyprus and let Greek Cypriots be at peace and try to build an alliance with them and help rebuild their economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.30.200 (talk) 17:14, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Population Figures

There are many things I disagree with in this article, but the population figures stick out the most. They are completely ridiculous. The thought of there being half a million Turkish Cypriots in Turkey is nothing short of comical. The figure for TCs in North Cyprus is wrong too; it is widely accepted among both Turkish and Greek Cypriots in Cyprus that the TCs are now a minority in the north. Anyone who has visited the north and knows enough about this topic to make a reasonable assessment can clearly see that TCs are outnumbered by Anatolian settlers. There is no way that almost 200,000 TCs live on the island of Cyprus - the actual figure is probably around half this. Come to think of it, I have doubts about there being 10,000 TCs in Germany too. I don't have the time to look up reliable sources and such at the moment, and in any case, I don't think I know enough about Wikipedia policy to do so anyway. Just thought I'd point out the obvious absurdities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Del1011 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Well around 15% of the Turkish Cypriot population moved to Turkey in 1923, even more went between 1963-74. I just looked it up and found this [1] which says that 300,000 Turkish Cypriots live in Turkey. But this source is outdated. It was published in 1983 (almost 30 years ago). Furthermore, it says that 70,000 Turkish Cypriots live in England- but most recent sources say it's between 200,000-250,000.

According to Star Kibris andKibris Postasi there are 400,000 Turkish Cypriots in London and 60,000 in Australia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.115.43 (talk) 18:52, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Please Change immediately population figures shown for Turkish Cypriots. Nubmer are invalid

{{edit protected}} User who has calculated purposely Turkish Cypriot population number to 1000000 is completely mistaken and completely ignorant with wrong information. Turkish Cypriot population worldwide is approximately reaching almost 250000. Please someone changes it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Economiesofscale (talk • contribs) 00:51, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Please provide sources first.Turco85 (Talk) 01:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Turks are Muslim's and the Boy's get Circumcised

Turkish boys are circumcised

Why did you delete it?

Dilek2 (talk) 18:49, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I have re-structured the sentence in the religion section. However, there is no need for this to be written in the census table. The Northern Cyprus census lists sexs under "male" and "female" not "male circumcised". Turco85 (Talk) 23:12, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I see it...you have re-structured. ??? Dilek2 (talk) 08:20, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it now says the following: "...However, religion still plays a role within the community; for example, Turkish Cypriot boys are circumcised at a young age due to religious reasons".Turco85 (Talk) 17:20, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Holiest Sites in Islam

"In the 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus, the Turks built mostly religious buildings on the island. Hala Sultan Tekke near the salt lake in Larnaka (which is considered to be the third holiest place for Muslims in the world[43][44][45]) and the Mevlevi Tekke in Nicosia are considered to be the most important two tekkes.[46]"

Hello,

I would like to ask where the evidence is to confirm the above statement about the Hala Sultan Tekke being considered as teh third holiest site for Muslims.

The agreed first holiest site is the Masjid al-Haram in Makkah, Saudi Arabia. The agreed second holiest site in Islam is Al-Masjid al-Nabawi (The Prophet's SAW Mosque) in Al-Madinah Al Munnawarah, Saudi Arabia. The agreed third holiest site in Islam is Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa on Jerusalem, Palestine.

Kind Regards,

Ambssa Ambssa (talk) 00:46, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Collage

The collage in the infobox is repeatedly changed with a file which has two people killed by the Turkish Resistance Organization (TMT) in the first row. The author justifies this edit by saying that the people which he removes have no relation with Cyprus. On the contrary, I think that this does not change the fact that they are Turkish Cypriot, and that adding to the first row of the collage two people who were killed by TMT might have political meanings. --Seksen (talk) 14:08, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Now, after opening the RfC, I am presenting my arguments in detail, by analyzing the people in the old collage (which should be restored until the community decides to change it in this discussion, see WP:CYCLE) that were removed.

• Kıbrıslı Mehmed Kamil Pasha - an Ottoman grand vizier (equivalent to the modern prime minister), has the word Kıbrıslı (Cypriot) in his name
• Kaytazzade Mehmet Nazım - a leading poet, he lived in Cyprus
• Fatih Terim - former manager of the Turkish national football team, half-Cypriot, this is the only one who I agree with change (maybe with Mehmet Ali Talat)
• Alparslan Türkeş - former leader of the third biggest political party in Turkey, lived his first 16 years in Cyprus

--Seksen (talk) 14:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

First of all I just want to copy what "Seksen iki yüz kırk beş" said ın previous message: "The author justifies this edit by saying that the people which he removes have no relation with Cyprus. On the contrary, I think that this does not change the fact that they are Turkish Cypriot". I really did not get the point in this sentence. This sentence shows the paradox that the Turkish Cypriot page has had.

The people (which I have changed) from old college are not representing Turkish Cypriots, some of them were not born in Cyprus and some of the other ones did not even live most of their life on the island. We can easily see that on these people's wikipedia page they are valued as Turks more than Turkish Cypriots.

• Kıbrıslı Mehmed Kamil Pasha - The reason that I changed Kıbrıslı Mehmed Kamil Pasha is as you can see on his information (which author wrote) that he was an Ottoman grand vizier. He does not hold any value within Turkish Cypriot culture or history. The person that I replaced him with Derviş Ali Kavazoğlu, a modern time Cypriot politician who has an important part in Turkish Cypriot Culture and has a value for Turkish Cypriots. One can see easily the political purpose to change this Cypriot value with an outdated Ottoman vizier.

• Kaytazzade Mehmet Nazım - The second person that I changed is Kaytazzade Mehmet Nazım. The reason that I change him with Fazıl Önder is because he is also an outdated Ottoman poet who does not hold any value for the Cypriot culture. I exchanged him with the important Cypriot Journalist who, unlike Kaytazzade Mehmet Nazım, is valuable for Cypriot history.

The author of the previous post accuses me to have put them up because they were assassinated by the TMT. But how can I change the way two important historical figure for Turkish Cypriots died and how is it rational to blame me for it and exchange these people with two outdated Ottoman figures.

• Fatih Terim - The third person which I changed is Fatih Terim the world famous "Turkish" football manager who was born in Turkey (only father Turkish Cypriot), who never lived in Cyprus, played in and managed the Turkish football clubs, managed the Turkish National Football team and defines himself Turkish. I replaced him with Hal Ozsan, a world famous actor and singer who was born in Famagusta, is of Turkish Cypriot descent and represents Turkish Cypriots across the world with his Turkish Cypriot identity.

• Alparslan Türkeş - The last and most remarkable change is Alparslan Türkeş who was born in Cyprus but at a young age went to Turkey, joined the Turkish army and become one of/the biggest leaders of the "Turkish Ultra-Nationalist Far Right" organizations Grey Wolves and Nationalist Movement Party. This person never defined himself as a Cypriot and is not valued by Turkish Cypriot but rather seen as anti-sempatic. I changed this person with the Second President of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat.

I can easily see that author of this collage is a Turkish person who made this collage under his political ideology. One can see in the previous collage that the selected people were selected upon the basis of having a Right-wing ideology and with this purpose in mind the author dug deeply to find people with a faint relation, just to fulfill the criteria of posting right-wing people with relation to Turkey and Ottomans. But this important article which represents a Nation includes people without relevance to this Nation and with no value or meaning within this nation. The Collage which I have created does not heed any attention to the people's political ideology and selected more relevant figured of Turkish Cypriot culture.

This author's collage does not represent Wikipedias purpose of having truthful and accurate posts and objectives.
Ghuzz (talk) 16:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

First of all, I am not the author of that collage. If Kavazoğlu is that important, why do we get only 4 hits for him in Turkish Google Books. He is not like Özker Özgür, for example.

If Fazıl Önder's newspaper, İnkılapçı, is so important, why does it get only one hit? Why not Mehmet Remzi Okan, founder of the newspaper Söz, which is far more popular in reliable sources?

In the case of Fatih Terim, I totally agree with you. And for the removal of Alparslan Türkeş (and either Kaytazzade or Kamil Pasha), I would not refuse it if a better proposal is made.

So, here are my proposals:

• Derviş Eroğlu (this image might do if cropped)
• İrsen Küçük
• Ahmet Mithat Berberoğlu
• Mehmet Remzi Okan (he died in 1922, so this photograph of him is free)
• Tahsin Ertuğruloğlu (tr)
• Serdar Denktaş

--Seksen (talk) 21:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

So you think we should have just a bunch of politicians in the info box? Typical Turkish Cypriot mind I guess. I think it's best to have a range of people regardless or where they are born, their gender, their occupation, etc. Turco85 (Talk) 10:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

If we just had more photos of non-politicians... --Seksen (talk) 18:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I would prefer not having so many politicians; I don't see why we need Dervis Eroglu, Mehmet Ali Talat, and Serdar Denktas etc. What makes Fatih Terim any less a Turkish Cypriot than Tracey Emin or Leon Osman? Just because he was born in Turkey it does not make him any "less" a Turkish Cypriot. If he did not acknowledge his Cypriot roots why would he speak about it in interviews? I don't think we are in a position to judge who is a "true" Turkish Cypriot, at the end on the day it's about self-identification. Turco85 (Talk) 14:48, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

There is nothing in the article to explain the shared DNA

There is nothing in the article to explain why Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots look like each other. They have much shared DNA, don't they ? They are genetically much closer to each other than their respective "motherlands". There is also no mention about the Linobamvaki either. HelenOfOz (talk) 12:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

"nothing in the article to explain why Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots look like each other". That sounds like unencyclopedic WP:OR. Before this goes any further can you put forward some WP:RS on this please. DeCausa (talk) 13:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Let's talk about the words "fled" Vs "moved"

The article says : "After the Turkish invasion and the ensuing 1975 Vienna agreements, 60,000 Turkish Cypriots who lived in the south of the island fled to the north"

HelenOfOz writes : NPOV, changed from "fled" to "moved" because it happened a year after the ceasfire and it was not done under duress.) E4024, if the Turkish Cypriots "fled" then why didn't they flee in the period between the cease-fire of 1974 to the 1975 Vienna agreements ? In other words, what were Turkish Cypriots fleeing in 1975 that wasn't there previously to cause them to flee ?

HelenOfOz (talk) 11:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Was Kutlu Adalı assassinated by the Turkish Revenge Brigade?

User:TremoloKid wants to add this detail to the article, but the source he used appears not to meet WP:RS very well. Has this fact been verified to be true? For example, was there a court trial of members of the Turkish Revenge Brigade, in which they were found guilty, that might have been reported on in the newspapers? I'm opening this discussion to see if there is consensus that this fact has been verified. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:30, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I wrote source in edit page but I guess it didnt showed up. Im writing here few sources that I found out even in 5 minutes. Basicaly all articles about Turkish Revenge Brigade admit that they are responsible for killing of Kutlu Adalı. Articles(Turkish): Milliyet: http://gazetearsivi.milliyet.com.tr/Kutlu%20Adal%C4%B1/ Cumhuriyet: http://www.cumhuriyetarsivi.com/katalog/192/sayfa/1996/7/9/3.xhtml Zaman: http://www.zaman.com.tr/haber.do;jsessionid=B4B40295DD0008C53867221ECA8747E8?haberno=439127 Evrensel: http://www.evrensel.net/v2/haber.php?haber_id=41996 Also: http://books.google.com/books?id=HBy9n7DncA8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Journalists+in+Peril&source=bl&ots=mTbqJaCe87&sig=YNzkZ-JOP37qIFgwcR_AKUOGkr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oDYoUKXhFers2gX154G4Cw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Kutlu&f=false -(TremoloKid (talk) 23:12, 12 August 2012 (UTC))

Also E4024 user changed article again. I guess he also needs to join talk here before he do that. And everybody can see his purpose is different. Now he changed article with saying "Kutlu Adalı isnt famous because of he assassinated". Basicaly he changed his argument again for manupulate wikipedia article with his turkish nationalist ideological perspective. Is it normal in Wikipedia? And yes this Cypriot Author is famous now because of he assassinated. Everybody can figure it out even when they google his name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TremoloKid (talk • contribs) 23:36, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

RE : Indigenous Turkish Cypriots

How on earth are Turkish Cypriots "indigenous" to Cyprus or the Mediterranean ? If Turkish Cypriots are "ethnic Turks" then they are indigenous to Central Asia, not the Mediterranean. I propose to remove the word "indigenous". HelenOfOz (talk) 03:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Turkish Cypriots are Central Asian; very wisely said. I agree to and remove the word "indigenous". It is good we have users that see these details... --E4024 (talk) 09:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

The first thing should change in this page is the sentence that "Turkish Cypriots are ethnically Turk" and other sentence who have similar ideology. My family is Linobamvaki and today big amount percentage of people who identify themselves as a Turkish Cypriot is Linobamvaki origin. There are a lot of source available about it and we should think about how to change this article more reliable (Ghuzz (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2012 (UTC))

Indigenous is a pernicious word and should be avoided generally, IMO. How long does a people have to be resident to be indigenous: more than 50 years? More than 500 years? More than a 1000 years? More than 5000 years? The only place humans are really indigenous is the Rift Valley in East Africa! As far as "indigenous to Central Asia" is concernd: culturally perhaps - linguistic origin etc. But isn't the modern viewpoint that most of the ancestors of the modern Turkish population were in Anatolia prior to the arrival of the Turks? Regarding the Linobamvaki - ethnicity should be about what reliable sources say concerning ethnic self-identification. DeCausa (talk) 10:13, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Of course, you are right. Reliable sources. Lets look together what we have here. When you open Turkish Cypriots page, first section full of words like "Turk, Turkic, ethnically Turkish". Even just looking that we can realize that this page is fully vandalized by Turkish nationalists with giving some Turk researchers, writers as a reference. Ok sounds good. But I guess this is not way to use Wikipedia (If I'm wrong please just let me know, because as I can see you are so much old and experienced user). On the other hand person like me (totally amateur on computers and internet stuff) can find sources like this (http://www.cult-interculturaltrainings.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20&Itemid=23) in 15 seconds on internet. Source which looks more objective than Turkish writers, from project which funded with support from the European Commission. And this kind of reliable and looks real sources says "In fact, the majority of today’s Turkish-Cypriots are in fact Islamised Christians or Linobambaki, who had originally been Greek-Cypriots, Armenian-Cypriots, Maronite-Cypriots or Latin-Cypriots, which explains their physical differences with mainland Turks, their regular visits to monasteries and churches, the consumption of wine and pork, the fact that the majority of their villages did not have Turkish names - some even carried the name Ayios (Saint) - and the fact that the majority of them did not speak Turkish until the mid-20th century (with the exception of the ones who resided in the cities). Regarding ethnically Turk - Also again with another 10 seconds you can reach independent scientific researches (from non-Turk science people) like this (http://www.cyprusupdates.com/2012/01/greek-cypriots-and-turkish-cypriots-more-similar-than-we-think/) and can questionnaire one Wikipedia article easily and realize that this article not only vandalized, also raped. Everybody can write book or research paper of course. But as a Wikipedia users when we edit one article we need to use reliable, independent and trust giving sources (for example we need to use international papers which funded from serious organizations as a source for articles like this rather than some turkish papers) As I said I'm not old and experienced like you. And I guess this article really need help from users who have enough experience and know how to use Wikipedia. Here is talk page. And I think we can make this article more reliable and suitable with Wikipedia rules all together. (Ghuzz (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 12:44, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism (Turco85)

Can someone please look last 10-15 edit of the page? This article probably can be candidate for most vandalized article in wikipedia. And most of them did by Turco85. Information with sources deleted and article obviously vandalized with Turkish Nationalist ideology. (Ghuzz (talk) 10:58, 4 October 2012 (UTC)) I'm sorry not last 15, last 50 edit which he did in 3 days!! (Ghuzz (talk) 10:58, 4 October 2012 (UTC))

Vandalism?!.. --E4024 (talk) 11:20, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Please, before writing this kind of expressions, have a look to edits. It would be more constructive. Yes vandalism. You start with look edit in 27th September. (Ghuzz (talk) 11:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC))