User talk:Tumbleman

About Tumbleman

The name 'The Tumbleman' comes from the title of a story I wrote over 10 years ago and has stuck with me ever since. I am a wiki enthusiast, public speaker, media and technology professional, and developer of a collective editing platform for the purposes of online negotiation and problem solving. Of keen interest to me are online mediation platforms, collective problem solving platforms, and online dialectics for conflict resolution.

Point of View on Wikipedia

Wikipedia is one of the most impressive collective platforms in the history of the world. It needs help! When possible, I enjoy engaging in the 'talk' debates and RFD process to insure that reason, logic, journalistic integrity and objectivity is expressed and editors are without bias.

Intention as a Wikipedia Editor

I am here to do a little field study for personal exploration into online resolution disputes collective editing, especially in consensus building platforms that rely on consensus rather than vote. I am fascinated, geek out by on the concept of 'wiki wars' where two ideologically opposed editors have to find consensus. I hope my stay here provides help to both wikipedia and my own work into collective editing platforms. My focus is primarily on the conflicts that arise when editors are faced with maintaining a neutral point of view with subject matters that have proven to be controversial historically. Although some suggest that objectivity may be a fleeting illusion, pure objectivity, or neutrality as wiki refers to it, is essential to distinguish in any collective editing platform. So my focus is more on the back end process that editors have to engage with and face.

Philosophical/Ideological POV

Agnosticism.

Case Study in Wiki editing and mediation: Rupert Sheldrake Biography page

Currently I have decided to focus on the biography of Rupert Sheldrake as a case study in online wiki mediation. I am agnostic as to Sheldrake's theories and admittedly have no qualifications one way or another to accept or refute them, I am intrigued by the reactions to them from both the scientific community as well as mainstream culture from an ideological perspective. I found the TALK section to often be a war between two sides of the issue regarding Sheldrake, both having various levels of bias. For me, this represents a wonderful opportunity to show the value of pure unbiased, neutral, or objective reviewing when addressing contentious biographies or issues. What makes this a perfect case study for me is the issues regarding Sheldrake are very well documented and sourced, and considering it's science, easy to distinguish inside of a NPOV.

To any editor of the Sheldrake page who visits here, rest assured I have no ideological agenda, one way or another, regarding his theories and am not seeking to promote or condone them, rather simply listing the debate and historical record around them so they are framed within a NPOV and of course written within WP Good Article Criteria. which the page is sorely lacking.

This is an admirably clear and concise statement illustrating WP:NOT — most especially WP:NOTCASE (which specifically mentions case studies) and WP:NOTSTUPID. You are engaged in an experiment using a wikipedia talk page as the platform and wikipedia editors as the experimental subjects? If so, what you are doing is contemptible. It surely violates policy on what article talk pages are for and arguably violates ethical norms about human experimentation without informed consent. David in DC (talk) 02:31, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I think D-in-DC has been a touch harsh, but in substance he's absolutely correct: if you want to be an editor here doing what all editors are supposed to do (improve WP) and along the way write something up describing your experience, that's fine. But when you start right out saying that your purpose here is to do some research on the rest of us, or on WP as an abstraction with the rest of us helping out as free labor, you're dead in the water from the very start. You may think that, because you're so sure you have some absolute neutrality on the article subject, you can be a genuine editor and carry out your research without tension between those goals; that's fundamentally impossible for many reasons, not the least of which is that we all have a point of view, and while most of us strive for complete neutrality few of us achieve it -- and even those who arrive at that state of perfection have no way of knowing they have done so. What's most worrisome is that you appear to be some sort of researcher, but don't understand WP well enough to have realized how unacceptable this is. EEng (talk) 03:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

David in DC, EEng, Sorry this was a noob move. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. After reading this I see what you mean. What I wrote above are my personal reasons and curiosities, I thought being transparent about them was in the spirit of WP. So I realize I need to clarify. I have no other 'agenda', no write up, field report, documentary, etc etc. I find the debates Rupert Sheldrake generates fascinating and am very interested in improving the NPOV on the page. That is all I am doing and will be doing. I personally 'geek out' on collective editing at large, and I think that confused things here. I will clarify this above and appreciate any advice you can give me in doing so. The Tumbleman (talk) 03:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

We all look forward to your contributions. EEng (talk) 04:12, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

It's hard to ask for more, absent Doc Brown's DeLorean or Mr. Peabody's Way-back machine. Thanks for you good reply. I'll close with my favorite Teamster salutation:
Keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down.
David in DC (talk) 11:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

We should all be mindful that what have sometimes been called Sheldrake's "theories" are in fact only his "hypotheses". In other words, all this morphic resonance stuff is hypothetical. Lou Sander (talk) 23:15, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Olive branch

I still can't tell if you're really serious or just doubling down. In any case I've removed the dispute on my talk page and I'm ready to be done with this. I welcome you to end this as well. Or if you like, I'll restore my talk page and we can continue. Vzaak (talk) 19:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I accept your olive branch and I can assure you I am quite serious about my role maintaining a WP NPOV. I did notice that you took your page down, I undid it without viewing this first so please feel free to take it down once more. If you remove your page, I shall remove this page, and we can return to a purely NPOV conversation on the Sheldrake page when I get back to editing. Sound fair? The Tumbleman (talk) 19:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Vzaak for your honorable resolution to this issue and I look forward working with you again maintaining WP NPOV. See you on the page! The Tumbleman (talk) 19:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Be more careful in your editing of talk pages not to harm other people's comments

I dont know what you were trying to do here but you messed up a number of other editors comments. I am going to revert back before that fiasco. Please be more careful. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:57, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

thanks for keeping this editor straight. multiple tabs issue + @ work, will be more careful. The Tumbleman (talk) 20:56, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

I have removed your comment from the section that is my statement. [1]. If you wish to reinstate it under your comments or the general discussion feel free. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013

Your recent editing history at Rupert Sheldrake shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:55, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

IRWolfie- (talk) The page in question is in violation of BLP and NPOV, and any actions I took were in response to edit warring from agenda based editors on the page and were done so with the full understanding that WP policy WP:BLPREMOVE supports my actions. the page is both in WP:BLPN and in ANI.

I am not responsible for an edit war on the sheldrake page, indeed I have brought the concern to WP:BLPN. If I personally made reverts yesterday they were done with WP:BRD and WP:BLPREMOVE If I my actions were anything other, then they were mistakenly so and I am willing to correct them. I am taking two days off from editing and TALK regardless. The Tumbleman (talk) 15:30, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

See WP:WRONGVERSION. Also, for the umpteenth time, your bizarre ideas about circumventing WP:FRINGE have no place in Wikipedia. Barney the barney barney (talk) 19:54, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Barney the barney barney (talk) Come join us at WP:PEACE

“ "Make love not war." ”

- The Tumbleman (talk) 20:45, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:Sockpuppet_investigations/The_Tumbleman

Regarding this investigation, it does seem odd that you mentioned you'd be taking 2 days away from editing the Rupert Sheldrake page, then a suspected sock with a Palm Springs IP address appears using similar turns of phrase. I could be mistaken. However one thing that might help establish the two accounts are not connected would be if you would comment here at the same time the suspected sockpuppet is active. Regards. LuckyLouie (talk) 17:01, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I've just blocked you for one week for inappropriately using multiple accounts per the findings of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Tumbleman. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Really? LuckyLouie (talk), it's strange is it? I decide to take a day or two off from editing, completely self imposed, so I decide to create a sockpuppet so I can post while I take a break from my other account? For what purpose would I even need to do this? If I wanted to make an argument, I would as tumbleman. as you can see I also do not need any help or need any sockpuppets because I already have support on the talk page. You and your group of skeptic pals have harassed me enough and should be ashamed of what you are doing to Wikipedia. We are not a soapbox for your ideological agenda. The Tumbleman (talk) 00:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

LuckyLouie (talk), Mark Arsten (talk) - This is completely inappropriate. This is the FOURTH time these skeptical agenda editors have tried to remove me from the page for fabricated reasons. Every single time they have failed and this will be no different. I am NOT any of those two accounts, I do NOT live in Palm Springs. I am NOT a troll or have been trolling. I am NOT disruptive to the page. I am requesting these be IMMEDIATELY removed and I have no choice but to report this hounding to an administrator. Since I have arrived, they have exposed my identity, tried to scrutinize my account and claim I am running WP NOT, and then they try to get me banned for pushing 'conspiracy' theories and being a 'fringe' believer - all of which are completely ridiculous and not in the spirit of why I am here. Then they edit war and put a notice on my page for edit warring! Anyone can view the talk section of sheldrake to see what kind of an editor I am. The Tumbleman (talk) 23:02, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Tumbleman is not user: KateGombert. User KateGombert also has no activity on the sheldrake page, I can't find anything she has even done in talk or any edit. Suggestion: (talk) Mark Arsten, Reaper Eternal, JamesBWatson Why not unblock that account, reach out to her, and ask her to post something the same time I am online? The Tumbleman (talk) 13:57, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

@Reaper Eternal: Reaper Eternal (talk) Mark Arsten (talk) asked me to contact you directly. I am sorry but you, Mark, and I are being WP GAMED right now by a group of co-ordinating ideological skeptics on the Rupert Sheldrake TALK page. This is the fourth time they have attempted to have me removed from the page, every one has failed so far. The last case I won and now the admins from that case have requested that I submit a detailed summary of their disruptive behaviors on the board, of which I can assure you this will be one of them. I am NOT a sock puppet, and do not know those accounts nor do I even live in Palm Springs. I am willing to share with you my IP address I post from one computer and you can see from my IP I only have one account. I want this removed immediately. I am shocked I was not even allowed to defend myself and even more shocked that I have been banned from all of WP. The Tumbleman (talk) 00:09, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

This user is asking that their block be reviewed:

Tumbleman (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

Request for other independent opinions. User Tumbleman is not user KateGombert or any other user. The only reason I can think why my IP was showing up for another may have been because a few weeks ago I requested a professional to help me with my sandbox and for a day or two I shared my account PW with this professional so they could make changes in my sandbox regarding my references at their office. I only requested them to use my account and no other. I asked for help regarding references because I wanted to make sure I am editing with proper WP protocols regarding references and needed help. This professional works in public relations in an office setting so it is likely their office has WP activity since they do online public relations and outreach support for many social sites in general. IP logs should show if this is the case and if it is, it would only have been for a day or two and the log activity will show that they were active only on my talk page. Suggestion. Why not unblock that account, reach out to her, and ask her to post something the same time I am online? Also, the accounts mentioned that they are claiming I am using to sock puppet they have done no editing and I cannot even find any activity on KateGomber on the Sheldrake page nor do I see any evidence of any of these 'sockpuppet' accounts disrupting the actual Sheldrake page, I have seen no editing nor voting on these accounts. My presence on the Rupert Sheldrake page is critical, I have devoted myself to help make the page better towards a more NPOV and I take WP guidelines and policy very seriously. There is plenty of evidence of bad behavior on that page and I am here to help clean it up. I am also currently involved in an ANI case for RfC and have been requested to make my case regarding the bad behaviors on the Sheldrake page. I was supposed to present this information today and cannot now because I am blocked. I apologize if my earlier request sounded too emotional. It was upsetting to me to find this happen, please help keep this editor straight where relevant. Thank you.

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{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=Request for other independent opinions. '''User Tumbleman is not user KateGombert or any other user.''' The only reason I can think why my IP was showing up for another may have been because a few weeks ago I requested a professional to help me with my sandbox and for a day or two I shared my account PW with this professional so they could make changes in my sandbox regarding my references at their office. I only requested them to use my account and no other. I asked for help regarding references because I wanted to make sure I am editing with proper WP protocols regarding references and needed help. This professional works in public relations in an office setting so it is likely their office has WP activity since they do online public relations and outreach support for many social sites in general. IP logs should show if this is the case and if it is, it would only have been for a day or two and the log activity will show that they were active only on my talk page. '''Suggestion.''' Why not unblock that account, reach out to her, and ask her to post something the same time I am online? Also, the accounts mentioned that they are claiming I am using to sock puppet they have done no editing and I cannot even find any activity on KateGomber on the Sheldrake page nor do I see any evidence of any of these 'sockpuppet' accounts disrupting the actual Sheldrake page, I have seen no editing nor voting on these accounts. My presence on the Rupert Sheldrake page is critical, I have devoted myself to help make the page better towards a more NPOV and I take WP guidelines and policy very seriously. There is plenty of evidence of bad behavior on that page and I am here to help clean it up. I am also currently involved in an ANI case for RfC and have been requested to make my case regarding the bad behaviors on the Sheldrake page. I was supposed to present this information today and cannot now because I am blocked. I apologize if my earlier request sounded too emotional. It was upsetting to me to find this happen, please help keep this editor straight where relevant. Thank you. |3 = ~~~~}}

If you decline the unblock request, replace this template with the following code, substituting {{subst:Decline reason here}} with a specific rationale. Leaving the decline reason unchanged will result in display of a default reason, explaining why the request was declined.

{{unblock reviewed |1=Request for other independent opinions. '''User Tumbleman is not user KateGombert or any other user.''' The only reason I can think why my IP was showing up for another may have been because a few weeks ago I requested a professional to help me with my sandbox and for a day or two I shared my account PW with this professional so they could make changes in my sandbox regarding my references at their office. I only requested them to use my account and no other. I asked for help regarding references because I wanted to make sure I am editing with proper WP protocols regarding references and needed help. This professional works in public relations in an office setting so it is likely their office has WP activity since they do online public relations and outreach support for many social sites in general. IP logs should show if this is the case and if it is, it would only have been for a day or two and the log activity will show that they were active only on my talk page. '''Suggestion.''' Why not unblock that account, reach out to her, and ask her to post something the same time I am online? Also, the accounts mentioned that they are claiming I am using to sock puppet they have done no editing and I cannot even find any activity on KateGomber on the Sheldrake page nor do I see any evidence of any of these 'sockpuppet' accounts disrupting the actual Sheldrake page, I have seen no editing nor voting on these accounts. My presence on the Rupert Sheldrake page is critical, I have devoted myself to help make the page better towards a more NPOV and I take WP guidelines and policy very seriously. There is plenty of evidence of bad behavior on that page and I am here to help clean it up. I am also currently involved in an ANI case for RfC and have been requested to make my case regarding the bad behaviors on the Sheldrake page. I was supposed to present this information today and cannot now because I am blocked. I apologize if my earlier request sounded too emotional. It was upsetting to me to find this happen, please help keep this editor straight where relevant. Thank you. |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here with your rationale:

{{unblock reviewed |1=Request for other independent opinions. '''User Tumbleman is not user KateGombert or any other user.''' The only reason I can think why my IP was showing up for another may have been because a few weeks ago I requested a professional to help me with my sandbox and for a day or two I shared my account PW with this professional so they could make changes in my sandbox regarding my references at their office. I only requested them to use my account and no other. I asked for help regarding references because I wanted to make sure I am editing with proper WP protocols regarding references and needed help. This professional works in public relations in an office setting so it is likely their office has WP activity since they do online public relations and outreach support for many social sites in general. IP logs should show if this is the case and if it is, it would only have been for a day or two and the log activity will show that they were active only on my talk page. '''Suggestion.''' Why not unblock that account, reach out to her, and ask her to post something the same time I am online? Also, the accounts mentioned that they are claiming I am using to sock puppet they have done no editing and I cannot even find any activity on KateGomber on the Sheldrake page nor do I see any evidence of any of these 'sockpuppet' accounts disrupting the actual Sheldrake page, I have seen no editing nor voting on these accounts. My presence on the Rupert Sheldrake page is critical, I have devoted myself to help make the page better towards a more NPOV and I take WP guidelines and policy very seriously. There is plenty of evidence of bad behavior on that page and I am here to help clean it up. I am also currently involved in an ANI case for RfC and have been requested to make my case regarding the bad behaviors on the Sheldrake page. I was supposed to present this information today and cannot now because I am blocked. I apologize if my earlier request sounded too emotional. It was upsetting to me to find this happen, please help keep this editor straight where relevant. Thank you. |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Tumbleman (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I am NOT those accounts - this is the 4th time editors on the sheldrake page have tried to get me banned. I am NOT SOCK PUPPETTING. They have been WP HOUNDING me and this is unacceptable. I ask for this banned to be removed immediately. I will share my IP address with any admin for proof

Decline reason:

While there is no unambiguous smoking gun, there are several pieces of evidence which all point to KateGompert being a sockpuppet of yours. The coincidence of those several pieces of evidence all happening to point in exactly the same direction is enough to make it far more than probable enough to justify the block. (Also, I see no evidence of hounding.) JamesBWatson (talk) 09:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

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