Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thongvan Fanmuong: Difference between revisions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:42, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thongvan Fanmuong

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There are no reliable sources for this article that establish notability under WP:BIO and WP:GNG — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 21:16, 14 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:31, 14 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cambodia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:32, 14 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're not looking very hard: the spellings "Thong Van Thanmuong", "Thong Van Phan Moeung" etc bring up plenty of citations. Svejk74 (talk) 14:04, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Svejk74, the search yield on both spellings is low – "Thong Van Thanmuong" (1 result) and "Thong Van Phan Moeung" (5 results), none of which fall under WP:RS. I have tried other combinations too. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 14:45, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. While I am not enthusiastic about the sources available, including the one I just cited in the article, it must be pointed out that the article is about one of the leaders in the losing side of a genocidal war, which targeted libraries and destroyed the written word. Outside their country, how likely is it that the "reliable sources" exist? The small detail I added to me speaks of notability, even as an article about one of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff would be notable.Jacqke (talk) 02:23, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As a general clearly meets the criteria of WP:SOLDIER. As a member of the supreme committee, probably also meets WP:POLITICIAN. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:19, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I have noted in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sau Sovanney, WP:SOLDIER is an "essay" which suggests that the fulfillment of one of its criteria leads to presumption of notability in favour of an individual, however that does not trump the requirements under WP:BIO and WP:GNG. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 14:08, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is an essay that is generally held to be a notability standard for military bios and has almost always been held to be such at AfD. And note that WP:POLITICIAN is not an essay. For this general, given his status, my opinion stands. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:27, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again, for your response. I have not been able to determine the exact nature of the "supreme committee" referred in the biographical article. It appears to have been a body constituted to take charge of negotiations for surrender with the Khmer Rouge as the Khmer Republic came close to a collapse. According to Sak Sutsakhan, who served as the chairman of this committee,^[1] its members included the following individuals: (1) Lt. Gen. Sak Sutsakhan; (2) Maj. Gen. Thong Van Fanmuong; (3) Rear Admiral Vong Sarendy; (4) Brig. General Ea Chhong; (5) Mr. Long Boret, Prime Minister; (6) Mr. Hang Thun Hak, Vice Prime Minister; (7) Mr. Op Kim Ang, Representative of the Republican Party.^[2] If the role of Fanmuong can be shown to be political within this body, then I would withdraw this nomination. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 15:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If he was senior enough to have been a member of a committee set up to negotiate surrender terms for his country then I would have thought he would be considered notable by anyone's standards. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:10, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep. He was a member of the 6-general supreme committee that held power for a few days after the president fled. He meets WP:SOLDIER's presumed notability and given the multiple variants of his name in English and possible sources in non-English I'm going with the presumed notability here. Verifying he was on the supreme comittee is easy - [3] [4], [5], [6], [7]. Icewhiz (talk) 12:01, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per Icewhiz - If this committee held power, that would certainly push him past GNG. Perhaps some more research needs to be done to improve the article, but the bare minimum notability requirements are here. Dusti ^{*Let's talk!*} 06:50, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per strong notability arguments made by Jacqke. Also, passes WP:SOLDIER. -AuthorAuthor (talk) 07:49, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@AuthorAuthor: can you further elaborate on how Jackqe's rationale is so strong? Is it in accordance with policy? — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 04:41, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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-===[[:Thongvan Fanmuong]]===
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.''
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+<!--Template:Afd top
+Note:  If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]].  When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
+The result was '''keep'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Spirit of Eagle|Spirit of Eagle]] ([[User talk:Spirit of Eagle|talk]]) 04:42, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
+===[[:Thongvan Fanmuong]]===
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 :{{la|Thongvan Fanmuong}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thongvan Fanmuong|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 April 14#{{anchorencode:Thongvan Fanmuong}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Thongvan_Fanmuong Stats]</span>)
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 *'''Keep''' - per strong notability arguments made by [[User:Jacqke|Jacqke]]. Also, passes [[WP:SOLDIER]]. -[[User:AuthorAuthor|AuthorAuthor]] ([[User talk:AuthorAuthor|talk]]) 07:49, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 :*{{ping|AuthorAuthor}} can you further elaborate on how [[User:Jacqke|Jackqe]]'s rationale is so strong? Is it in accordance with policy? — [[User talk:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|<span style="color:black">Nearly Headless Nick</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|<span style="color:black" title="Contributions">{c}</span>]] 04:41, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
+{{clear}}
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>