Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Mobile 01

User:Mobile 01

• Mobile 01 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) ME!
• NeilinOz1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) This user has not made an edit since 17Oct2006, and only made 2 edits on Bridgestone, 1 was a link and the other a spelling correction. Even if that was me it doesnt rate as sock puppetry.

→ This is hardly "a spelling correction." Athænara ✉ 08:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• LucaZ (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Probable employee of Bridgestone in Ohio.
• 211.29.13.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Mobile 01 acknowledges probably her
• 211.29.2.142 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Mobile 01 acknowledges probably her
• 211.29.3.48 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Mobile 01 acknowledged probably her
• 211.29.3.61 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) (211.29.3.61 overlooked in original list, added 08:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC))
• 211.29.13.235 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Mobile 01 acknowledged probably her
• 211.29.13.6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Mobile 01 acknowledged probably her
• 211.29.2.233 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Mobile 01 acknowledged probably her

No conflicting edits, no illigitimate use, no coercion, no vote rigging. Dont think this rates as sock puppetry, just not logging on properly.

• 203.49.235.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)This user formatted a table and fixed up spelling on the bridgestone article. Made 3 edits to dicussion page on firestone article to answer some questions. No conflict, No edit reverting, no illigitimate usage apart from some misunderstanding when they first became an editor about over linking and not understanding why edits kept vanishing. Even if that was me it doesnt rate as sock puppetry.

All of the above editors, anons and myself have done nothing that warrants a sock puppet enquiry. While I have made a few errors due to lack of understanding on content forking that is all. The rest of this page is just a witch hunt by a user who I am in conflict with over the Firestone Tire and Rubber Company article. Mobile 01^Talk 13:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attacks

At the bottom of this page you will find a new user User:Fairness_And_Accuracy_For_All possibly a sockpuppet of User:Travb has started to add unsupported accusations, sarcasm and abuse towards me and the integrity of this pages purpose. I have also been threatened by another associate of User:Travb on my talk page. Mobile 01^Talk 14:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I welcome you too file Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Travb. All the other baseless accusations have nothing to do with the suspected sock puppets of User:Mobile 01. Travb (talk) 13:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

New evidence

New evidence after User:Mobile 01 acknowledged multiple anon accounts. (see above)[1] Travb (talk) 12:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Dont twist my words Travb, I aknowledged that I had inadvertently not logged on and thus my edit to an admin page was signed as an ANON. I did not say that I had used ANON accounts to edit the Firestone Page. You are twisting the facts to suit your own motives and it is a further example of how far you will go to attack my credibility. As all edits by me do not overlap nor do they attempt to gain support for a POV or attempt to rig a vote or violate any illigitimacy rules covered by sockpuppetry, your continued vendetta against me is starting to look very personal.Mobile 01^Talk 12:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Mobile 01 I am not User:203.49.235.50

User:Mobile 01 denies being User:203.49.235.50: "This user is from the other side of the country. They have made a few edits on the same pages, probably linked to what I was editing via the history of Smallville edits. I do the same myself when I check the history of a page and see an issue going on, I often go check out other things that user edits" [2] "I live in Adelaide (think of it as where Dallas is) now one of the anons you try to link me to is from Sydney (think of that as New York)."[3] Edit history of User:Mobile 01 and User:203.49.235.50: 00:28, 14 December 2006 User:Mobile_01 uploaded [4] User:203.49.235.50 00:32, 14 December 2006 Adds File:100logo.gif to the Firestone page [5] which User:Mobile 01 Uploaded four minutes before. User:203.49.235.50 creates a table,[6][7], ending on 00:32, 14 December 2006. Twelve minutes later, at 00:44, 14 December 2006 User:Mobile 01 continues to edit the table [8] Block history of 203.49.235.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log): 05:14, 16 October 2006 User:Luna Santin (Talk | contribs) blocked "203.49.235.50 (contribs)" with an expiry time of 3 hours (Disruption) [9] Block on User talk:203.49.235.50: [10] Complaint on Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism: User has been linking everything on a Smallville (Season 6) episode plot summary. The policy on wikilinking was explained to the user by two other editors, but the user continues to revert back to his edits.[11] Later partial mea culpa by User:Mobile 01 in regards to 203.49.235.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log): Even if that was me it doesnt rate as sock puppetry [12] Travb (talk) 12:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Mobile 01 I am not User:NeilinOz

User:Mobile 01: "As for NeilinOz1 and LucaZ you will have to ask them." [13] User:Mobile 01 Acknowledges that 211 numbers are hers [14] 211.29.2.233 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) signs comment on Talk:Smallville (season 6) NeilinOz[15] User:Mobile 01 again first denies this is her: FYI, My ISP is OPTUSNET, Optus is the second biggest ISP in Australia next to Telstra. Every account holder of Optusnet has an IP address that starts with 211.29.??.??.[16] Then User:Mobile 01 admits: RE: User:211.29.2.233: "Mobile 01 acknowledged probably her" [17] RE: User:NeilinOz: "Even if that was me it doesnt rate as sock puppetry."[18] Signed, Travb (talk) 12:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

FYI, My ISP is OPTUSNET, Optus is the second biggest ISP in Australia next to Telstra. Every account holder of Optusnet has an IP address that starts with 211.29.??.??. Mobile 01^Talk 13:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Refers to herself in the third person

As per Bobblehead below:

The clear violation is where Mobile commented on Woohookitty's talk page as an anon, referred to himself in the third person and then signed as Mobile 01.[19] However Mobile did go back and correct that prior to anyone telling him to, so perhaps give him some credit for that.[20] The other anon edits do not appear to be disruptive and it is plausible that Mobile failed to log in during those edits.-- Bobblehead 00:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Where is the rest of this message, I see the explanation has been deleted.Mobile 01^Talk 13:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Mobile_01#Third_opinion Travb (talk) 12:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Comments on abuse

User:MrDarcy[21]:

“ It looks to me like his evidence is the editing pattern, which we do accept here as evidence of sockpuppetry...if Travb is right, then we have a major (not to mention newsworthy) conflict of interest here, and that is the problem that needs to be addressed. ”

Signed: Travb (talk) 12:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Also quite possibly true, but what does two anon edits by employees of Bridgestone in Nashville USA have to do with me here in Australia. It seems to me that the user Travb is indeed trying to use the Chewbacca Defence.Mobile 01^Talk 10:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Raymond arritt [22]

“ Very interesting. The pattern suggests not simply one-off edits by an individual employee, but a coordinated effort. Raymond Arritt 19:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC) ”

Signed: Travb (talk) 12:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I would agree with you on that point especially if I lived in Nashville USA. But unfortunately as I live on the other side of the world it would be hard to be a sockpuppet of those Bridgestone Employee Editors.Mobile 01^Talk 10:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Mobile 01 quoted User:LucaZ for backing up her version of the edits [23]:

“ The reasons for deletion were explained to you by Lucaz ”

Wikipedia:Third opinion member User:Athaenara[24][25]:

“ LucaZ (talk) (contribs) edited only between 16 and 18 November 2006.

Mobile 01 (talk) (contribs) began editing two days later, 20 November 2006.
They may be the same person.

”

“ Regarding LucaZ and Mobile 01: My own third opinion is that those two, or that one in (so far) two guises, should be prevented from editing the article and good editors [should be] allowed to retrieve the encyclopedic material from the debris. I hope Robdurbar, wangi, perhaps others, continue to assist. ”

Signed: Travb (talk) 01:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Edits by Bridgestone on Firestone and Bridgestone

Edits by Bridgestone ISP on Firestone Tire and Rubber Company (Bridgestone bought out Firestone): [26][27][28] Reverted by WP:VP2: [29] [30][31][32][33]

Edits by Bridgestone ISP on Bridgestone: [34]

User:199.48.25.10 Whois: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=199.48.25.10

User:199.48.24.11 Whois: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=199.48.24.11

OrgName:    Bridgestone/Firestone, Inc. 
OrgID:      BRIDGE-12
Address:    One Bridgestone Park
City:       Nashville
StateProv:  TN
PostalCode: 37214
Country:    US

NetRange:   199.48.16.0 - 199.48.31.255 
CIDR:       199.48.16.0/20 
NetName:    NETBLK-BFS
NetHandle:  NET-199-48-16-0-1
Parent:     NET-199-0-0-0-0
NetType:    Direct Assignment
NameServer: DNS-5.BS-FS.COM
NameServer: DNS-3.BS-FS.COM
NameServer: DNS-6.BS-FS.COM
NameServer: DNS-4.BS-FS.COM
Comment:    
RegDate:    1993-11-12
Updated:    2002-07-31

RTechHandle: DB-ORG-ARIN
RTechName:   Bridgestone/Firestone, Inc. 
RTechPhone:  +1-615-237-6008
RTechEmail:  *********@bfusa.com 

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2007-01-10 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

Edits by Michelin Tire Corp ISP on Bridgestone: [35] Travb (talk) 12:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Factual inconsistencies of User:Mobile 01 and her intentions on wikipedia

See also #Another opinion below. States there are no Firestones in Australia You may also note that I spell Tyre differently to the American spelling Tire. This should indicate to you that I am not from the USA. I am actually from Australia. We dont even have Firestone in Australia. The closest is New Zealand.[36] But later states that she was aware that Bridgestone was in Australia Explaining how she started to edit these pages: 05:44, 11 January 2007 "One day I got shunted to the Bridgestone page and noticed that the information was way out of date and had nothing about the Australian factories. being an old time tyre fan from way back I did some research on the plants and updated the article."[37] Response of Mobile 01 In response, Mobile 01 wrote: “ Bridgestone Australia Ltd is an Australian Company currently listed on the Australian Stock exchange, It has a Majority share owner (51%) of Bridgestone Corporation a Japanese company. It does not manufacture Firestone tyres. Firestone tyres are not manufactured in Australia. The nearest Firestone manufacturing plant to Australia is in New Zealand. So, my original statement hopefully makes sence to you now. "There is no Firestone in Australia", I thought I would try and clear that up for you as you keep trying to harp this point as having some significance. ” [38] Firestone was bought out by Bridgestone in as per: Firestone_Tire_and_Rubber_Company#Sale_to_Bridgestone Keep in mind: Bridgestone and Firestone are the same company now. So what Mobile 01 is writing is this: “ Bridgestone Australia Ltd is an Australian Company currently listed on the Australian Stock exchange, It has a Majority share owner (51%) of Bridgestone Corporation a Japanese company. It does not manufacture Bridgestone tyres. Bridgestone tyres are not manufactured in Australia. The nearest Bridgestone manufacturing plant to Australia is in New Zealand. So, my original statement hopefully makes sence to you now. "There is no Bridgestone in Australia", I thought I would try and clear that up for you as you keep trying to harp this point as having some significance. ” [39] In other words, what User:Mobile 01 appears to be saying is that Bridgestone tire company does not actually make Bridgestone tires. And you wonder why people question your credibility. Once more for the small children I will try to explain. Fistly lets put on our glasses and go look at a Bridgestone tyre. On the side of the tyre in Big letters is the word BRIDGESTONE. You can tell that this does not say firestone as it starts with a B. Now still with our glasses on we will go look at a Firestone tyre. Note the different arrangement of letters. F.I.R.E.S.T.O.N.E, this does not spell Bridgestone. So what Mobile01 is saying is exactly what she originally said and not the newly edited version by someone with literacy problems. Let me reiterate that Bridgestone Australia is a company listed on the Australian stock exchange. This means that is not owned by Bridgestone but by shareholders. If Bridgestone owns Firestone then that has no relevance to BSAL(Bridgestone Australia Ltd) which brands its tyres as BRIDGESTONE under licence. I am hoping that you are finaly understanding as you seem to be having trouble with simple english. This is primarily why I edit the article and the start of this edit was by Travb over my trying to include separation between Firestone USA subsidiary of Bridgestone, and Firestone International such as Europe and New zealand. The negative comments that the edit war is about all relate to Firestone USA, I have been trying to show that these do not apply to the rest of the Firestone organisation nor to Bridgestone Corporate Japan and especially not to Australia which isnt even owned by Bridgestone Copr Japan. Oh NO, now he will probably say I am attacking him again and put anoth NPA on my talk page. But seriously folks have you ever seen such a misrepresentation of someones words just to prove a point that is wrong. Mobile 01Talk 06:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC) Actually there are several Bridgestones in Australia List of Bridgestones headquarters in Australia: http://www.bridgestone.com.au/contact/ Head Office GPO Box 2200, Adelaide, SA 5001 196 Greenhill Road Eastwood, SA 5063 Telephone: +618 8206 0200 Facsimile: +618 8206 0299 E-mail: headoffice@bridgestone.com.au Mobile 01 is from Adelaide, the same city with the Bridgestone head office.[40]

Rebuttal

• User:Travb/m#Probable_socks_of_User:Mobile_01

Believes a sock puppet exists because two editors in Australia both like watching the TV program Smallville.

Mobile 01 06:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

So: Re: "Postings from IP starting 211.29.*.* are probably all mine. Mobile 01 06:21, 16 January 2007" 211.29.13.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), 211.29.2.142 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), 211.29.2.142 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), 211.29.3.48 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), 211.29.13.235 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) are all yours. In addition, we have a Bridgestone employee in Ohio deleting the same sections as you are. (See below).

• User:Travb/m#Confirmed_Anons_of_User:Mobile_01

This was when I used my brothers computer to send a message to an admin. I corrected to signature next time I logged in from home. he uses the same ISP, hence the same starting numbers.

Mobile 01 06:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• User:Travb/m#Probable_Anons_of_User:Mobile_01

Postings from IP starting 211.29.*.* are probably all mine.

Mobile 01 06:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• 211.29.13.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• 211.29.2.142 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• 211.29.2.142 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• 211.29.3.48 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• 211.29.13.235 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

These are probably all me, my PC is supposed to log me on automatically but sometimes it doesn't. I don't always notice I am not logged in and this causes my edits to appear as ANON.
Mobile 01 06:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• 203.49.235.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) This user is from the other side of the country. They have made a few edits on the same pages, probably linked to what I was editing via the history of Smallville edits. I do the same myself when I check the history of a page and see an issue going on, I often go check out other things that user edits.
  

Mobile 01 06:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

As for NeilinOz1 and LucaZ you will have to ask them.

I notice in the rules for sock puppets that an account is not considered a sock puppet unless used for illigitamate purposes. While my unfortunate mistakes with ANON editing are annoying, there was nothing illigitimate about any of my edits while using the ANON signin.
Mobile 01 06:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I did make an error in inadvertently doing something called a Content Fork, While a page was under protected mode, I made a new Page called Firestone International which I was going to make about the international company rather than purely focusing on Firestone Tire and Rubber Company which is about the USA company. I started this page by copying the content of the protected page and began editing it to remove USA Specific content and adding International content. I never got to finish it because when I went back the next day, user Travb had initiated a complaint to have it deleted.

I also found an old article Firestone which was a redirect to Firestone Tire and Rubber Company, as The word Firestone relates to more than just tires, I edited this article to show the many articles within Wiki that are about Firestone, including Firestone High School, Firestone Golf Club, plus numerous people named Firestone. I have now been informed that this is also incorrect and that a Firestone Disambiguation page is where that belongs. Unfortunately there is not a lot on that page and you cant edit it to add more. I found many instances throughout Wiki where key words for Firestone had been redirected to Firestone Tire and Rubber Company. Even Bridgestone Firestone was redirected to Firestone Tire and Rubber Company rather than to the Bridgestone article. I fixed up all the articles I could find thus leaving Firestone Tire and Rubber Company as a semi orphan that was reachable by direct entry of the name, or by link from the parent topic of Firestone rather than every firestone keyword redirecting the user to Firestone Tire and Rubber Company. I have now been told by an Admin that this was also not allowed. I have tried in good faith to fix these problems with the articles and am now being personally attacked at every corner by user Travb. See his personal vendetta page at User talk:Travb/m Frankly if this is how an editor of Wiki is treated then what's the point of trying to improve the articles if another user just reverts all your work and then gets Admins to protect his version of an article while he sets about a personal attack of you on all fronts.
Mobile 01 11:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion

While it is apparent that all the accounts and anon's provided are run by the same person (similar editing patterns and interests), I'm only seeing two "minor" instances where there's a violation of WP:SOCK and one definite violation, so I'm not sure an indefinite block is warranted, perhaps a good hand slap and a promise not to do it again. There isn't any overlap in editing periods between Mobile, LucaZ, and NeilinOZ1 and the only questionable edit between accounts is where Mobile 01 added a comment to a comment string LucaZ also commented in. As for the anon's there are overlaps in editing periods, but the questionable edits is when Mobile reverted Firestone after Woohookitty sprot'd the page, but I'm not sure content forking was a valid reason to protect this page as it does appear Mobile was setting up a dab page and not a fork.[41] The clear violation is where Mobile commented on Woohookitty's talk page as an anon, referred to himself in the third person and then signed as Mobile 01.[42] However Mobile did go back and correct that prior to anyone telling him to, so perhaps give him some credit for that.[43] The other anon edits do not appear to be disruptive and it is plausible that Mobile failed to log in during those edits.--Bobblehead 00:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

As I tried to explain earlier, the message to User_talk:Woohookitty was written at my brothers house and I was not logged in, I deliberatley used the third person so as not to appear as an impersonator. I corrected this immediately when I got home and logged in as me. I do not believe that I have done anything wrong here and have only been acting in good faith to try and stop a Wiki Bully from ruining what could be a good article. I don't know who user LucaZ or NeilinOz1 are and they both seem to have stopped editing in Wiki anyway. I have admitted that the ANONs are all mine and have redirected those talk pages to my own. Not sure what else I can do. I have done nothing illigitimate nor disruptive in any of my edits to warrant this personal attack. Mobile 01 02:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Also posted:

• Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Mobile 01

A Little History on Accusations by the Same User

Dear Mobile01, don't get flustered by this user. He's done this sort of thing before, and is rather clumsy and not particularly careful when he brings these sorts of charges. Here's the user making the charge at Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Morton_devonshire. Here's the same user falling all over himself and admitting his carelessness at User_talk:Zer0faults/Archive_3#Morton_devonshire_is_using_a_sockpuppet. Here's the same user talking about that embarassment at User_talk:Quack_688#Since_I_added_the_2_user_boxes. Keep your chin up Matey! Morton Devonshire^Yo 01:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your support User talk:Morton_devonshire, I have read those posts and now have a clearer understanding of just how much of a disruptive user User Talk:Travb is. I have also looked through a lot of his edits to other users talk pages and come across a whole lot of complaints of malicious editing and even one where he archived someones talk page. He keeps reverting my own talk page as well even after I cleaned it up as per directions from an Admin. It seems this user has a passion for Conspiracy, Government Control, Corporate Abuse and Coverups which would explain his zeal in promoting his Anti Firestone Propoganda. Thanks once again for your support and I hope all goes well for you too. Mobile 01 02:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Morton what does the previous checkuser have to do with this case? I apologized for that checkuser, several times.

Mobile 01, you continued to escalate this situation, despite my repeated request for comprimise and restraint. T (talk) 09:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice trick redacting your previous edit after I respond so that my response appears non-sensical. Here's what you previously said: "Morton forgets to mention the sucessful checkuser right after this."[44]. Morton Devonshire^Yo 16:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

There was no successful checkuser in your allegations against me. You made an erroneous accusation, and you later admitted your mistake. I don't think you would purposely misstate the facts, so I will have to assume that you are confused and thinking about another editor -- there was NO successful checkuser against me, it never happened. Morton Devonshire^Yo 18:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments Morton. As you wrote: "You made an erroneous accusation, and you later admitted your mistake." Have a good evening. T (talk) 01:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Travb, now you have made me angry. Your last two edits here are such blatant attempts to make yourself look good.

You have warned me to stop attacking you!!!, I am not the one with the vendetta page with opening statements about the reason its there are absolute personal attacks on me. see user talk:travb/m, also I have never made a secret of being from Adelaide Australia.

Repeated requests for compromise?, look around at what your doing right here, you call that compromise!!

I have placed numerous message on your talk page in an attempt to enter into compromising dialog with you. You have immediately archived the message and lied on the edit reason. Your edit comment said "moved to talk" when in fact it was already on the talk page and you actually archived it. You marked your edit as m when it clearly was not a minor change. I replaced my message on your talk page and you deleted it completely this time and wiped your talk page instead putting in two insert page tags. I once again replaced my message to you and you once again wiped your talk page. This doesnt sound like compromise, this sounds like guilt.

Sorry if my statement above does not seem to make sence, unfortunately user Travb deleted his comments after I wrote this.Mobile 01^Talk

I will say once again and in plain english. I am not user LucaZ nor have I ever been user LucaZ. Your comments above about sockpuppet violations is based on your incorrect assumption that I am user LucaZ. So once more I will reiterate, I Am NOT USER LUCAZ. Any cross editing I have done has been accidental and by ANON signin. You have been down this road before with user Morton and were made to appologize for your error. I will expect no less than a full appology on my talk page from you once you have established that I am not user LucaZ.

Now I will ask you once again to stop attacking me on so many fronts and stop escalating this edit war of yours into a major battle ground. I have been very patient with your continued attacks on me and blatant fauls accusations about my being a sockpuppet of LucaZ. If this continues maybe I will have to report you instead. Mobile 01^Talk 14:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Obsessive Hounding of Mobile 01 by Travb

The pursuit here, and more troubling at User:Travb/m is becoming a bit over-the-top, and frankly, a little scary. Here's what was said at the AN/I board about the issue:

". . . You're really reaching if that's the worst you can find from him. And frankly, I think you should back off on the whole sockpuppet hunt. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 09:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)" (excerpted in part)

"Could someone else take a look at this? Travb left an NPA warning on mobile 01 (talk • contribs)'s talk page, with links to diffs that aren't attacks at all, and he seems set on proving that Mobile 01's really a sock puppet with some flimsy evidence. It seems like the wrong party is getting warned here. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 09:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)"

"I'm getting a bit concerned about this - I think we got into WP:STALK territory a while back - isn't this the 3rd "outing" of Mobile 01 that Travb has performed in the last 3 or 4 days. If he's a sock or there is a COI that's one thing but the frankly obsessive manner in which he's been hounded by a single editor is not helpful. --Larry laptop 10:20, 19 January 2007 (UTC)"

The full text can be found here. The amount of time this user has poured into compiling his "evidence" at User:Travb/m is deeply troubling. Perhaps a cooling-off period is warranted. Morton Devonshire^Yo 16:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

That is an unfortunate and inaccurate characterisation (which supports User:Mobile 01's eager descents to the argumentum ad hominem in attempting to discredit those who question violations of Wikipedia policy and guidelines in the spotlight here) of a hard-working Wikipedian who has been working alone to protect an article in which few editors have been interested. Athænara ✉ 17:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Two other editors, not involved with examination of this sock puppet ordeal, have adopted a position entirely in league with this characterization. The whole reason, I, an outsider got pulled into this affair was discovering the aggressive nature which TravB has pursued this business, and as I learned, poorly characterized Mobile 01's attempts to engage in a discussion on his talk page, which lead to the above. This whole article would be better served by both parties admitting to mistakes, and seeking to forgive each other, rather than waste time and energy to attack. In essence, this represents the very worse of Wikipedia, not an attempt to establish the very best. As is, the whole Firestone issue probably could have been settled in a better way, through mediation, rather than one editor resorting to attempting to kick out another. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 18:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

In light of Mobil01's unilateral actions such as "The liberian controvesy while interesting does not belong on this page. This is a page about Firestone, what it does, and it's history in the USA. I have created a new article Liberian Controvesy which has been placed in the correct WIKI area for such a topic." and Mobile01's attempts to scuttle valid sourced criticism of the company, Trav's conduct, while not exemplary, is not unusual either. IMHO, the article should go to mediation. - Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 20:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Please also read Mobil01's admissions above - that section staring with : "I did make an error in inadvertently doing something called a Content Fork, While a page was under protected mode, I made a new Page called Firestone International which I was going to make about the international company rather than purely focusing on Firestone Tire and Rubber Company which is about the USA company.". Firestone International is an accounting (?) firm Firestone International. There is no corporate tire entity called 'Firestone International'. This and other redirects were such flagrant violations of WP, and (IMHO) blatant attempts to hide crticism under names NO ONE would look for them under, that I actually applaud Trav for showing the good faith and restraint that he did. - Fairness And Accuracy For Charles Taylor's Diamond Mines 20:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

There is also no corporate entity called Firestone Tire and Rubber Company, which is an old name from before this company in the USA was purchased by Bridgestone Corporation. From my research I have found that the company is now called Bridgestone Firestone North America Holdings. My article titled Firestone International was supposed to encapsulate the International divisions of this company. Firestone have plants in Europe and New Zealand plus land holdings and plantations including Liberia. If thats not interational I dont know what is.

Your point seem to be that my edits and creation of the page would take information away and hide it where no one would look for it, which in fact is the exact opposite of what I achieved. I actually changed a parent article Firestone which originally was a redirect to Firestone Tire and Rubber Company and changed it to include all firestone related articles. This included the article Firestone Tire and Rubber Company, and the newly created Firestone International as well as links to the founder of firestone, firestone High school, firestone golf club, firestone radio show etc etc. My point was that if anyone looked or searched for Firestone all they got directed to was Firestone Tire and Rubber Company. I even added further links to the liberian controvesy and ford rollover criticisms on the Firestone page. Go check it out and then continue your diatribe. Some have called it content forking, a term which I do not believe is appropriate in this case. If anything my new articles and Firestone page was actually Un-Content Forking and provided the wiki user with a greater ability to find information than before. My comment about my edits effectively orphaning the Firestone Tire and Rubber Company are taken out of context. My implication with that comment is that instead of everything currently redirecting to Firestone Tire and Rubber Company regardless of whether it should or not, my edit prevented that article from a monopoly of "Firestone" the word, and made access to the Firestone Tire and Rubber Company come directly from the parent Firestone article, this being a choice the wiki searcher had made rather than had forced upon them. I dont belive what I did was wrong but have appologised many times already for it none the less. I have tried to enter ito discussion with this Travb, I have nicely requested he cease his vendetta, I have tried to answer all points raised by him and other editors. I have tried to remain courteous at all times. While my comments may appear to Travb as NPA they are not, they have been about his editing style and POV content. I do not know what else I can do to end this, the page is still protected and as Travb refuses to enter into discussion on it, will probably remain so indefinately. Mobile 01^Talk 06:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The fact that Firestone Tire and Rubber Company no longer exists as a independent and distinct corporate entity is not germaine to the fact that the DID exist, and the Firestone 'brand name' is still used. Pan_Am_World_Airways doesn't exist AT ALL and Wiki still has an article on them. Just curious - why would you choose to create the article 'Firestone International', a non existent entity, rather than the very real Firestone Natural Rubber? I look forward to working with you and Trav after he gets back from Wikivacation, and encourage you to seek mediation. - Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 07:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Note - I do feel the article is quite unbalanced. Firestone was one the more important brands PERIOD, in the USA up until they had the problems with the 500, and the section from the founding up until this date, should be greatly expanded. To cover 1900 - 1975 in two short paragraphs (especially the first) is nothing less than a travesty. Lots of good info here 100 Years of Firestone - Fairness And Accuracy For Firestone Historians 07:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Morton, please see this comment on your archived talk page: [45], asking you to stop your involvment with this case, which you have never been involved with before this checkuser. You have read this message[46].

Unfortunatly, you have ignored this request, so I had to ask two admins, who have came to your defense and User:NuclearUmpf defense when we have argued before, to intervene.

Troublingly, both have thus far declined, one states he is too busy and gave me a list of admins who may help, the other has not intervened.

Now User:Fairness And Accuracy For All and User:Tbeatty have joined this debate.

Thank you. Travb (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

====The Bridgestone company has been anonymously editing the Firestone page==== Careful Travb, that statement could almost be libellous.

An unidentified editor using an ISP traced to Bridgestone has been editing wikipedia.

See: User talk:199.48.25.10 User talk:199.48.25.11 This employee has deleted the same sections as User:Mobile 01. Best wishes, Travb (talk) 12:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're connecting an employee in Ohio, who made four edits on November 16, 2006, to a person who lives in Australia, and did not start making edits until December 6, 2006. A quick comparison of edits did not seem to indicate any type of exact similarity between the two. If anything, it appears as if User 199.48.25.10 was just a Bridgestone employee who was accessing the page, just like User talk:199.48.24.11, who accessed the page the same day (and also of Bridgestone). A glance at the edit history of the page indicates that you have a different interpretation of what belongs on the Firestone page versus what Mobile 01 had in mind. The regrettable thing is that from an outsider's perspective, a good article could be created by the combination of what you both want for the page, but instead it descended into a useless edit war and drove you to find some means to remove Mobile 01 from the picture. I say drop this nonsense and cooperate on merging both of these visions of Firestone.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 14:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

from what I just read here, my assumption would be that user LucaZ was an employee of Bridgestone USA who had earlier tried to edit the firestone page and then came back 5 minutes later under his own login. So that would mean that I jumped on a plane and moved to Australia just so I could sockpuppet myself away from LucaZ and edit a Bridgestone article that LucaZ never edited at all. I put my user page up to clarify a few things to Travb about where I live and why I edit Bridgestone and Firestone. Bridgestones head office is in the same city as me, so what. My father used to work for them. so what. User Travb edits articles about America, a quick check on the net shows that user Travb lives in America. Oh No Conspiracy. Mobile 01^Talk 14:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The evidence thus far simply shows that employees of Bridgestone edited this disputed page. Travb (talk) 15:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

So why did you connect Mobile 01 to these edits, if they're Bridgestone employees?~ (The Rebel At) ~ 03:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

In answer to your question RebelAt as to why user Travb would try to connect an employee of Bridgestone in Nashville USA with me in Australia, see Chewbacca Defence.

Mobile 01^Talk 10:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

As I have stated several times to you, "WP:NPA: Comment on the editor, not the edit." Please start abiding by wikirules. Travb (talk) 12:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Another opinion

I am just starting to look into these charges and allegations, but IMHO Mobile1's contibutions do not jibe with someone who has only a casual, non affiliated interest in Bridgestone and Firestone, because her father worked for the factory. Use the 'reasonable man' (or woman) theory. Would someone who only had a casual relationship with a company ( a 'fan' if you will) upload nine images of an obscure Bridgestone product to Wikipedia, and write a PR-sounding puff piece on the product ? Bridgestone Rubber Dams M1 uploads 9 corporate images It just doesn't wash. Fairness And Accuracy For Liberian Child Slave Laborers 11:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

NOTE : Rubber dam is 100% copyvio pilfered from Bridgestone, and the article itself a redirect from the more usual 'rubber dam' as used to describe a dental product. Fishy..... Very Fishy. Fairness And Accuracy For Copy Writers 12:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

If you check the original version of that page it was very boring and outdated. I started editing it to make it more interesting. I went to the bridgestone site and found out about a whole new product I had never heard of so I thought it would be a good piece to put in the article. I also added about Bridgestone Golf products and bicycles which were not mentioned on the article either. I also found some pictures over on the Bridgestone Web site too and some generic ones around the web which I thought would make the article more appealing and generally pretty it up, to make sure it was OK, I emailed Bridgestone in Japan to ask permission to use their images, unfortunately I never got a reply, I changed the images to low res which I belive meets with the upload image policy, if that is not correct I can remove them.

Are you Fairness And Accuracy For Liberian Child Slave Laborers contending that every editor of wikipedia must have some direct link to the topic they edit or else they wouldnt bother?. Your argument seems to be that because I edit a page I must therefore have some hidden adgenda. Following your logic of the 'reasonable man' theory, would any editor in wikipedia spend hours working on articles that was only a fan. I would ask the writers of Movie and TV show articles if being a fan of something is a valid reason to want to improve it. I am sure 95% of article editors do so because they are a fan or have an interest in the topic they wrote about. For that matter, your user name suggests you have a direct interest in the specific edit being questioned by Travb on the firestone page, one could surmise then that you must have more than a casual interest in placing your comments here.

User Fairness And Accuracy For Copy Writers If you have a problem with my edit on the Rubber damn product because it is too close to the text on the bridgestone site, then I am quite happy to rewrite it in my own new words. Its been there for a while and no one has complained about any edits I have made to that page that I am aware of. Mobile 01^Talk 12:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, cause people feel the same way about tyres (tires) and corporate entities as they do.... say... about Johnny Depp or Cameron Diaz. Righto! Fairness And Accuracy For Vegimite Lovers 12:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

So you are saying that the writers of the General Motors, Ford, Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nintendo, Microsoft etc etc articles are all written by employees or by Johnny Depp? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mobile 01 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Update : Mobile1's Rubber Dam (made by Bridgestone no less) article was deleted for violating Bridgestone copyright. M1, I apologize for accusing you of 'pilfering' the text from Bridgestone. As you are quite likely a Bridgestone employee, you are probably authorized to use their text. Posting Bridgestone PR and puffery to Wikipedian might even be part of your job description! (by the way....I need new tires, can you get me a discount? None of those crappy exploding 500's tho! - I want Potenzas!) Fairness And Accuracy For Firestone 500 Victims 12:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide a link to this article that was deleted for copywrite, I cant find any trace of the article you are referring too. My edit was to a section on the Bridgestone Article to a sub section called diversified products. As far as I know it is still there. Be careful with your accusations too, Travb would say you are close to a WP:NPA

Mobile 01^Talk 13:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you denying the multiple contributions, using Bridgestone written text, you made to the now-deleted Rubber dam article? That seems to be the case. Are you saying that you made no such edits, and your edits concerning Bridgestone Rubber Dams were only to the main Bridgestone article? I want to be clear on this. Thanks. - Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 19:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, Mobile 01 accuses us of being sock puppets above Fair :)[47] I am rather offended, because I think I am a much better editor. ;-) You are probably offended for the same exact reason :)

Also, if you look at Firestone all of User:Mobile 01, her one confirmed sock, and her several anons, all major additions, to my knowledge, have been corporate websites she links too. Travb (talk) 12:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hrm. I went over Mobile 01's edits from the start to finish and found no article entitled Rubber Dam. Are deleted articles removed from the contribution list? If not, then why is this article been thrown at their feet? A second point of interest, this new accuser has a visible interest in child labor in Liberia, hence the name Fairness And Accuracy For Liberian Child Slave Laborers. At the same time, Travb, has shown a strong interest in the topic, as it has been a subject he has sought to include in the main Firestone page. While certainly not a case of sock puppetry, this opinion is certainly slighted to favor Travb in this situation.

Furthermore, any criticism towards an individual for having "odd" or "unusual" interests, such as interests in a corporation, is completely unacceptable. No one has any position to dictate what is and what isn't acceptable in terms of personal interests, especially on Wikipedia where thousands of articles would not exist if not for the specific interest of one or two individuals on certain topics. What I find most dismaying about this case is the amazing aggressiveness to prosecute it, almost an eagerness to make this the final salvo of a vendetta that began in an editing war. Then now with this recent inclusion, veritable name calling, just makes the business all the more rotten. I have no personal attachment to Mobile 01, but the nature of this attack certainly has established a sympathy for them. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 15:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

→ Deletion log for Rubber Dam article —Æ. ✉ 18:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

One of the points you're missing here: User:Fairness And Accuracy For All frequently varies the text through which his user ident is piped. Just another creative Wikipedian keeping things interesting while also keeping the focus on what this procedural discussion is actually about: principles, policies, and guidelines, not personalities and conspiracies. Athænara ✉ 18:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I didn't miss that point. Since I had to replicate the code he used for his signature, I clearly saw that he altered his signature depending on his mind set. Which, in this point, obviously shows support for Travb's position. If there was any attempt at neutral assertion, it would have been wiser not to select a topic which was one of the flame points for this whole mess between the two editors. This, by no means, neither dismisses his accusations and childish comments towards Mobile 01, concerning her entirely speculated employment at the corporation in question.

Truly, what is at fault here are two editors who approach an article with earnest intentions, and simply failed to find common ground. It turned into an edit war that dissolved into this fracas. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 18:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I alter my signature purely for entertaiment value (mostly mine), and sometime will even add a sig opposite of my true feelings - I've used 'Fairness And Accuracy For Randy 'Duke' Cunningham' a few times lately, for instance. Pay no regard to what my sig says, as it might mean what it says, or mean the opposite! - Fairness And Accuracy For Charles Taylor 18:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for levity, but perhaps it was not the best choice of title for this situation! :)

Addressing the deletion log, I'm still confused. I'm not debating if the article existed or not, but Mobile 01's relationship to it. I checked her contributions for any edits to it and found none. Are edits to an article on a contribution list removed when that article is deleted? ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 18:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes they are, I'n trying to find out how they can be retrieved though. - Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 19:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. For the most part, I've spent my time on WP quietly working on articles, so there are some technical details I'm still unfamiliar with. However, with all due regard, I'm not sure what the Rubber Dam article indicates other than someone extending their fascination from a topic into a poorly created article. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 19:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion afresh

I first became aware of this situation when a request for a third opinion was posted on WP:3O (diff) five days ago. Aside from checkuser details above, three aspects are particularly striking. The following three subsections excerpt key Wikipedia guidelines:

Advertising (1)

"What about advertisers?"

There are basically three forms: adding excessive external links to one's company, outright replacing of legitimate articles with advertising, and writing glowing articles on one's own company.

The first and second forms are treated as pure vandalism and the articles are reverted. Most Wikipedians loathe spam, and spammers are dealt with especially severely.

The third form is normally dealt with by editing the article for a neutral point of view or by deleting the article.

Conflict of interest (2)

A Wikipedia conflict of interest is an incompatibility between the purpose of Wikipedia to produce a neutral encyclopedia and the individual agendas or aims of editors who are involved with the subject of an article.

This includes promotion of oneself or other individuals, causes, organizations, and companies you work for, and their products, as well as suppression of negative information, and criticism of competitors.

If you have a conflict of interest, you should:

1. avoid editing articles related to your organization or its competitors;
2. avoid breaching relevant policies on autobiographies and neutrality
3. avoid participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
4. avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your corporation in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).

Definition of disruptive editing (3)

This guideline concerns gross, obvious and repeated violations of fundamental policies, not subtle questions about which reasonable people may disagree. A disruptive editor is an editor who:

• Is tendentious: continues editing an article or group of articles in pursuit of a certain point for an extended time despite opposition from one or more other editors.
• Rejects community input: resists moderation and/or requests for comment, continuing to edit in pursuit of a certain point despite an opposing consensus from impartial editors and/or administrators.

In addition, such editors may:

• Campaign to drive away productive contributors: violate other policies and guidelines such as Wikipedia:Civility, Wikipedia:No personal attacks, Wikipedia:Ownership of articles, engage in sockpuppetry, meatpuppetry, etc. on a low level that might not exhaust the general community's patience, but that operates toward an end of exhausting the patience of productive rules-abiding editors on certain articles.

Sources: (1) Wikipedia:Replies to common objections#Advertising, (2) Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, (3) Wikipedia:Disruptive editing. Contributed by Athænara ✉ 14:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The emphasis added above is intended to help the unrepentant sockpuppeteer understand just one thing: the discussion on this page is not about the character or personality of any individual editor or administrator who opposes certain activities. It is about the mission of the encyclopedia, and the policies and guidelines which preserve and protect that mission. —Æ. ✉ 16:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

No Firestone in Australia?

Mobile01 wrote: "We dont even have Firestone in Australia. The closest is New Zealand" here

Odd. That's not what Bridgestone AU says:

"Bridgestone Australia Ltd is a leading tyre manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer, with an advanced range of products that leads the field for safety and performance."

"We produce and distribute the Bridgestone, Firestone and Bandag brands, which provide a wide choice of tyre solutions for passenger and light commercial vehicles, and trucks and buses." Bridgestone AU

What's going on? Why the denial of the facts? Curiouser and Curiouser. - Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 08:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Going off Mobile 01's statement above, it'd appear she may have been referencing plants, not corporate or retail presence. According to this link from Bridgestone tires are produced in New Zealand for sale in Australia. I haven't been able to find any direct evidence of plants in Australia, yet. Just general corporate descriptive statements which pop up on every bridgestone site without regard to geography. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 16:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay - thanks for explaining. - Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 18:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Please pardon my impatience, but all this amateur-defense-counsel pettifoggery continually leads away from the actual behaviors, actual evidence, actual motivations. The old MMO formula: Means, Motive, Opportunity.

Are you, User: RebelAt, promoting the mission of writing a neutral encyclopedia? Or are you playing trivial social games and taking sides as if these administrative procedures and discussions are merely sport?

While it is argued that one must assume good faith with regard to the defendant's disingenuous attempts to rewrite edit histories and contribs records, and utterly shameless vilification of those who articulately and sincerely question the actions recorded in them, it is also vital to assume the good faith of those who are not deceived by that. — Athænara ✉ 19:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

"and utterly shameless vilification of those who articulately and sincerely question the actions recorded in them," - — Athænara

That right there is one reason, I've been posting. Despite assurance of adopting an attitude that Mobile 01 acted more out of ignorance to Wikipedian policy, you have already decided that Mobile 01 has acted in a malicious and knowingly intentional manner. I, and three other individuals, have recognized that TravB has over reacted in his response to Mobile 01's attempts at discussion. I was personally taken back by his aggressive nature to, in your supportive words, "preserve the neutrality of Wikipedia." Neutrality is great, and it is important, but Wikipedia stands for nothing if people waste more energy on attempting to remove those who they feel are harmful, rather than counsel a mediative solution. That is, rather than attempt to build a case for Mobile 01's removal, which has quite certainly had its ups and downs in terms of success, why has there been no attempt to have an honest discussion and seek a resolution that keeps two active and energetic editors working towards a better product?

I do believe in a better encyclopedia, and I honestly believe that this rampant aggressive behavior does nothing to contribute to it. Thus, influenced by mostly by TravB's actions, I have found myself reluctantly playing a defense under the belief "presumed innocent." A lot of people are always ready to take the most forceful and permanent solutions to end a disagreement. I say shame on them for not offering to seek a less harsh resolution, because this is a wiki, based upon the principle of mutual agreement and mediation. Damn me, then as some juvenile attempting to ruin the encyclopedia under the appearances of sport, fun, and games, but I'd rather collaborate than obliterate on any day of the week. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 21:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Need a new hobby

Travb needs to find a new hobby that doesn't include harassing editors he disagrees with phony Sock puppetry cases. This isn't the first time and I hope it is the last. Please close this out and move on. Nothing to see here. --Tbeatty 23:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Tbeatty you have been actively advising USer:Mobile 01 on User:Morton devonshires talk page under a section mocking me: User_talk:Morton_devonshire#Travb_and_his_Pursuit_of_HappYness.

As an admin, instead of telling User:Morton devonshire and User:Mobile 01 that their WP:NPA personal attacks are inappropriate, you are actively helping them.

But when you say "Nothing to see here" and mock me with the title "Travb needs to find a new hobby" despite the overwhelming evidence that something definetly has happened, it deeply troubles me.

I am also troubled that you are pursuing this sockpuppet case as zealously as you did User:XP. Travb (talk)

I don't recall advising Mobile01 on MD's talk page. I did show her that your attack page was not deleted but I did not comment on it[48]. Nor do I recall ever commenting on user XP. Diff's would be good to help understand where you are coming from. It seems ironic that you felt like an ass for defending him but seem to continue to do so even when you are confusing editors. But as it stands, your evidence against Mobile01 appears to be Users and IPs that like the serial Smallville. There is no violation of the sockpuppet rules. Having two (or more) accounts is not a violation in and of itself. Your argument does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit. Move along. --Tbeatty 05:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Tbeatty is an Admin now???!!! Fairness And Accuracy For John Titor 03:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

My mistake. Sorry for the confusion. Travb (talk) 04:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank god we got people like Beatty around to defend multinational corporations aginst scurrilous baseless unfounded charges! Maybe he can help on the upcoming Firestone Liberian Child & Slave Labor Controversy article and talk about their dental plan or somethin' ;-) Fairness And Accuracy For Rubber Barons 06:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Lets all keep in mind

1. Mobile 01 has been caught in some large factually inaccuracies. #Factual_inconsistencies_of_User:Mobile_01_and_her_intentions_on_wikipedia #User:Mobile_01_I_am_not_User:NeilinOz #Refers to herself in the third person
2. Mobile 01 has a sock, #User:Mobile_01_I_am_not_User:NeilinOz
3. Mobile 01 refered to herself in the third person twice. #User:Mobile_01_I_am_not_User:NeilinOz, #Refers to herself in the third person
4. Bridgestone, Belgium, Ohio, Nashville, has been editing Firestone and Bridgestone.

Travb (talk) 01:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Lets all keep in mind - Continued

Supposed factual Inaccuracies.

1. First link provided by Travb does not show any innaccuracy. ANd my statement has been explained to Travb on numerours occasions which he fails to include.
2. Second link merely tries to link an IP address with the first two number sets to another editor. I have already stated that edits with these beginning number sets are probably mine, but have also pointd out that these numnber sets are shared among all users of this ISP. I have tried to point out that user NeilinOZ has not edited in a long time and therefor would not rate as sock puppetry in this case whether that user was or was not me.
3. I have explained that I deliberatley spoke in the third person so as not to appear as a immitator until such time as I could log in as myself, at which time I corrected the text and signed it properly.
4. Not sure what Belgium, Nashville and Ohio Bridgestone edits have to do with tihs case, I also notice from user talk:Travb/m that Michelin also edited the Firestone page. It seems to me that many editors have edited this page for a variety of reasons.

As I have stated repeatedly, This whole case is being used to shift the spotlight from the actual issue at hand and that is user Travb and his pushing for inclusion of POV information in the Firestone Article and my push to edit that information to make it NPOV. As for you the reader of this page, I leave it to you to decide. As far as I understand, as the checkuser has been denied and therfor no proof of these allegations will be forthcoming, I am allowed to delete this Sockpuppet case and remove the tag from my userpage after 10 days. Please someone correct me if I am misunderstanding this. Mobile 01^Talk 05:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Leave this debate

It is a bit upsetting when I see this statement included here, where user Travb asks another editor to stay out of this debate because he does not support Travb's position. Travb cites that the user was not invloved in the article before so should not be involved now.

Morton, please see this comment on your archived talk page: [49], asking you to stop your involvment with this case, which you have never been involved with before this checkuser. You have read this message[50].

Unfortunatly, you have ignored this request, so I had to ask two admins, who have came to your defense and User:NuclearUmpf defense when we have argued before, to intervene.

Troublingly, both have thus far declined, one states he is too busy and gave me a list of admins who may help, the other has not intervened.

Now User:Fairness And Accuracy For All and User:Tbeatty have joined this debate.

Thank you. Travb (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

What I find even more distressing is the lack of a similar request for user Athaenara to do the same. Also not invloved in the article before and yet no request is made to cease involvement as this particular user obviously takes Travb's side. I am not sure it is appropriate to attempt to quash the opinions of those that oppose your point of view and yet to imbellish those that support it especially awarding each other Barnstar awards.

The comments by User Athaenara are also disturbing especially the way in which they try to appear to be neutral in the opening few words. The sentence is a huge contradiction of itself. "We must assume good faith" - but before we do that we must first point out that there was no good faith".

While it is argued that one must assume good faith with regard to the defendant's disingenuous attempts to rewrite edit histories and contribs records, and utterly shameless vilification of those who articulately and sincerely question the actions recorded in them, it is also vital to assume the good faith of those who are not deceived by that. — Athænara ✉ 19:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I would liken this to a prosecutor opening an address to the jury with "We must assume the defendant is innocent in regards to him brutally murdering the victim and then calously robbing that same victim of her personal possesions and setting her body on fire"; I would be calling "OBJECTION"...

The only "Utterly Shameless" thing I see there, is the users own statement, which has been vendictively worded in such a way as to impune me personally and attempt to portray the user Travb as a shining light for wiki policy. Frankly as an obvious supporter and Barnstar giver to user Travb, this editor shows a reluctance to remain neutral in this case.

I think those other editors being criticised by User Athaenara are doing a far better job at remaining neutral and offer constructive advice towards a resolution of this case, rather than User Athaenara's attempts to shift the focus away from Travb and his personal vendetta by a diatribe of words from their pocket thesaurus.

As stated above, the request for checkuser has been denied, the sockpuppet allegations are about edits made long ago by users that have not edited these articles since. This sockpuppet enquiry is finished and unproven and should be closed. Continued debate here is pointless and I would much rather shift the discussion to where it should have been all along and that is on the Discussion page for the Firestone Tire and Rubber Company article which user Travb refuses to do even after repeated requests from myself and other editors and Admins.
Mobile 01^Talk 06:22, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we talk about the article over on the article talk page? I'll post some thoughts later tonight. - Fairness And Accuracy For Rubber Barons 06:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)