Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One

Helmut Marko/1971 German Grand Prix

We have some internal inconsistency regarding Helmut Marko's result at the 1971 German Grand Prix:

• Helmut Marko says "DNQ"
• McLaren Grand Prix results, McLaren M7A and 1971 Formula One season say "DNS"
• 1971 German Grand Prix says "DNQ" in the Qualifying table and "WD" in the Race table

Here's what external sources have to say:

• Mike Lang's Grand Prix Vol 2, lists him as "Also practised: H. Marko (McLaren-Ford) No time." and offers the additional information: "During the afternoon the Austrian sports car driver Dr. Helmut Marko set off in Bonnier's McLaren but almost immediately ran out of fuel and gave up in disgust."
• grandprix.com lists him as "nq" (i.e. "not qualified")
• FORIX lists him as "Not qualified"
• ChicaneF1 lists him as "dnq" (i.e. did not qualify)
• formula1.com doesn't list him at all (but they typically don't list non-starters)

So what do we think his result should be? I lean towards "DNQ". DH85868993 (talk) 10:22, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

As most sources state DSQ/NQ, I think that's what we should write. He entered the Grand Prix weekend, attempted to qualify and failed to do so. Formula 1.com is not usable for us in this case as far as I'm concerned, since they don't even have the full qualifying result for that race. Motorsportsstats on the other hand does and includes him. By the way, I though we had a discussion recently and agreed not to include DNQ drivers in the race result in grand prix articles?Tvx1 11:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

DNQ sounds right. Motor Sport reports him as having run out of petrol during practice, so he at least participated to some extent. MS gives his car number as '27T' and Bonnier's as '27' but it appears to have been the same car. Halmyre (talk) 11:19, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

If he indeed ran with a T-car, then his time would not have counted even if he set one. That in turn would make DNQ the wrong listing, since he never attempted to qualify. I guess in that case he should be scrapped from the results all together. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:26, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Other examples

Another one here where WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and WP:CONSISTENCY seem to clash - @Zwerg Nase:'s comment above highlights a degree of inconsistency between drivers in situations where they practised but withdrew and/or didn't attempt to qualify. A few examples:

1. Giancarlo Fisichella at 2002 French Grand Prix

Incident: crashed in practice, was ruled out of the weekend. Jordan attempted to find a replacement but could not in time.

All of our pages (driver, team results, car, season, race) list him as DNQ, which would appear to be inconsistent with the below.

2. Karl Wendlinger (and Sauber more generally) at 1994 Monaco Grand Prix

Incident: crashed in Thursday practice and put in a coma. Sauber withdrew from the event outright, including teammate Frentzen, and made no attempt to qualify.

Listed as DNS on Karl Wendlinger, 1994 Formula One World Championship, Sauber C13, and Sauber Grand Prix results; WD on 1994 Monaco Grand Prix in Qualifying and DNS in the Race table. Frentzen is listed as WD everywhere.

This one is tricky: the 1994 sporting regulations provided that the fastest 26 would qualify for the race, and 28 cars entered most races in 1994, thus two cars (usually the two Pacifics) would not qualify. However, Williams and Simtek only entered one car each at Monaco 1994, thus bringing the number of entries down to 26 (which would reduce to 24 after Sauber withdrew), which is possibly why they are considered by us (and some sources) as having qualified. Article 92 of the 1994 sporting regulations states "no driver may start in the race without taking part in a qualifying practice session" - but they withdrew prior to the start of Thursday Qualifying. Therefore either DNQ or WD would be appropriate but I do not think DNS would be accurate here.

3. Valtteri Bottas at 2015 Australian Grand Prix

Incident: qualified but withdrew overnight due to a back spasm.

Listed as WD on 2015 Australian Grand Prix, DNS on Valtteri Bottas, 2015 Formula One World Championship, Williams Grand Prix results, and Williams FW37.

DNS would appear to be more consistent with instances such as Hakkinen at Australia 1995 or Minardi at Spain 2002, which list DNS on all pages.

4. Sauber at 2000 Brazilian Grand Prix (good article)

Incident: withdrew during qualifying (during the second of three red flag periods) on safety grounds after suffering rear wing failures on both cars. Both cars would end up 20th and 22nd in the classification but well within the 107% time.

Listed as DNS on 2000 Brazilian Grand Prix (good article), 2000 Formula One World Championship, Pedro Diniz, Mika Salo, and Sauber Grand Prix results; WD on Sauber C19.

See Bottas; all I want is consistency!

Spa-Franks (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

@Spa-Franks: Thank you for the research! I agree that consistency is key here. One note though: Marko's case appears different from the more modern examples listed above, since in that time, the original T-cars (which were used in practice for testing purposes but the times did not count, hence the T) were still in use. In the 90s and 2000s, the term T-car became used for the spare car, which was allowed to record times and race. Zwerg Nase (talk) 07:22, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Additional opinions requested at Talk:2023 Dutch Grand Prix

I am looking for additional opinions at Talk:2023 Dutch Grand Prix#The Lead regarding a discussion involving me and Island92. Cerebral726 (talk) 19:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Usage of for hatnotes

I already had a discussion with Island92 whether it's fine to add for hatnotes linking to MotoGP articles. I'm willing to let this go but I'm curious what others think. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 22:20, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

• Adding hatnotes seems completely reasonable in any case where there might be confusion (ie. 2023 British Grand Prix and 2023 British motorcycle Grand Prix). In some cases they're not really necessary (ie. 2023 Dutch Grand Prix and 2023 Dutch TT) but this seems like fairly standard Wikipedia disambiguation practice to me. I will notify the motorcycle racing Wikiproject if they haven't been already. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 07:10, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

  As all the MotoGP rounds with the exception of the Dutch TT follow the "2023 [...] motorcycle Grand Prix" formula it seems perfectly reasonable that someone who doesn't know the official name might look for the article on the Dutch TT the same way they would any other MotoGP event. Therefore, this hat note is not inappropriate, even if it may not be as necessary. SSSB (talk) 07:26, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

2023-09 appreciation from reddit

Excerpt from https://np.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/16gn5b0/since_everyones_talking_wikipedia_stats_heres/ «The people we really need to thank for all this are Wikipedia editors @Engr. Smitty and Corvus tristis: - as well as the 2,535 other people who've edited the article at some point too!» Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 12:31, 12 September 2023 (UTC)