Talk:Beetlejuice/Archive 1

Archive 1

songs?

what about the songs? when someone shortened the plot thay deleted the reference to some of the songs in the movie. like the part when the dance to the Banana Boat Song? maybe someone could mention this in the plot? or when Lydia starts dancing in the air to Jump in the Line (Shake Senora) by Harry Belafonte in the endo of the movie--128.194.171.141 (talk) 02:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Uk Rating

• uhm what rating is this film in the uk and why is there no explenation of the other charecter like lydia?????--Wwjd333 11:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

The current rating in the UK is PG. Or at least, that's what the DVD sitting on my shelf is labled. - JohnDoe244 (talk) 16:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Recently deceased ghosts?

What a minute! "Recently deceased ghosts" ? I don't remember the film very well but it seems too improbable. Even for this one.

Well, they are recently deceased people, who have recently become ghosts. Adam Bishop 21:04, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Well this was the phrase used in publicity for the film (I think). See the comment on my edit. IanM 15:35, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

In the film - its the guide for the recently deceased.

"Handbook for the Recently Deceased" if memory serves Tomsalinsky 12:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Bloopers

I don't understand this example: "Maybe because of the limited budget, the film features some notable inconsistencies and bloopers, some more obvious than others. One remarkable example is a scene where the deceased character draws a door on the wall with chalk." Franciscrot 21:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Name Confusion Unnescessary

The Name confusion section seems very unnecessary and lacks a neutral point of view, I’m deleting it. Caleb 04:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Inspiration for (some of) the premise?

There's an episode in the first season of Amazing Stories called "Boo!", in which a respectable ghost couple stumble through a hamhanded haunting to evict a crass, obnoxious couple that has just moved into their house. The similarity really ends there, and it's quite possible that this premise is more common in American film/TV than I'm aware of...but as this aired only two years before Beetlejuice was produced, I thought it was an interesting similarity. Anyone ever see or here a reference connecting the show with this film? Postdlf 14:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems more likely to be Oscar Wilde's "The Canterville Ghost" to me; the similarities are quite strong although not exact. --RichardNeill 01:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Dick Cavett

During the scene where "Banana Boat Song" is played, I seem to remember Dick Cavett dancing. Correct?

Names?

What was the characters name? Beetlejuice or Betelgeuse? We have half the references as "Beetlejuice", one quarter as "Betelgeuse" and another quarter as "Beetlegeuse" or "Beteljuice". Lunarctic 08:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The character's name as seen in-movie is "Betelgeuse." This can be seen during the sceen in which the Maitlands watch his advertisement on TV. --Spooky Skeptic 07:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

While I agree that the name represented in the movie is 'Betelgeuse', wouldn't it be fair to postulate that he has no ability to represent his actual name as "Beetlejuice" and has to resort to alternate spellings and pantomimes to trick people into saying his name? Not to mention the fact that his overall character is disgusting and rude rather than reminiscent of a literary source. --BlaculaDave 11:46, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

No; it would not be fair. If we were to assume that to be true, there are far more obvious alternate spellings. The movie title "Beetlejuice" seems to be a reference to the "charades" scene with Lydia Deetz; also "Betelgeuse" is hard to pronounce (as shown by Adam Maitland). His "overall character" is centuries old and Harvard-educated.ChristophMartel 07:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Beetlejuice - as Michael Keaton's character is credited as being called in the credits (and on the Internet Movie Database) - is unable to say his own name. As such, the assumption that he cannot write it on an advert is more than conjecture. The film is called Beetlejuice. It's about Beetlejuice. - JohnDoe244 (talk) 16:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed...from some other similar discussions in other articles, the credits take precedence over the in movie ad, so as the credits use Beetleguide, the article should use it as well. AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Plot synopsis rewrite

The Plot section needs a rewrite, it's currently very oddly written and there seems to be a good amount of original research. It doesn't follow the standard plot synopsis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mcr29 (talk • contribs) 04:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree. Having never seen the movie myself, it's quite hard to grasp the actual storyline of the movie rather than a description of the universe in which it takes place.60.240.122.80 01:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible additions

Is Otho really so inconsequential that an article this long doesn't mention him by name at all? He isn't onscreen a lot but he is the "anti-Beetlejuice", and his aborted exorcism shows the potential danger the Maitlands face even as ghosts, convincing them that they need Beetlejuice despite their earlier misgivings and Juno's warning. In other words, he's a plot point. I would also reference the running gag pointing out that the Handbook for the Recently Deceased "reads like stereo instructions", seeing how popular that exact phrase has become. Asat 05:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Script Changes

Anyone have any ideas on how to cite sources for the script changes section? I've read the 2nd draft of the Beetle Juice script (there used to be a company in California that sold copies of movie scripts and drafts that I bought it from) and know the Cathy and Lydia bit is true as of that version. It is dated 1 June, 1985. --Sobekneferu 08:07, 27 August 2007 (UTC) Also added some more information about the plot as of the 2nd draft.--Sobekneferu 08:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Flags

I did a bit of editing on the plot summary, which was full of redundancies and poor punctuation. I wonder if this is sufficient to have the quality standards flag removed?--Sobekneferu 08:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Setting?

Where was this filmed? If anybody knows, please email me j.l.barthel@gmail.com Thanks :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.231.44 (talk) 17:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Portrayal of the afterlife

this section does not belong here. Even if it is not original research (and it certainly reads like it is), it still is far too trivial for wikipedia. DiggyG 05:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Portrayal of the afterlife

Beetlejuice seems to be inspired by Jean-Paul Sartre's existentialist novel Les jeux sont faits (1952), which prominently features death as meaningless bureaucracy, albeit presented in a much less morbid fashion. A baital, in ancient Indian lore, is an evil spirit that inhabits dead bodies, and is perhaps the origin of both the name Beetlejuice as well as the name for the beetle insect. Also, as in the LucasArts adventure game Grim Fandango, people who commit crimes in life are forced to work off their time at the nightmarishly bureaucratic "Department of Death". An interesting contrast can be made with Burton's later work Corpse Bride, where the afterlife is vibrant and exciting, and the land of the living is grey and boring. All these are examples of Bangsian fantasy. Various esoteric and magical elements, such as exorcism, incantations, and seances, are prevalent in the afterlife as portrayed in this film. Religion occupies almost no identifiable role in the film, aside from fleeting references to Heaven and Hell.

Removed "Pop Culture" Section, pruned "Trivia Section"

These are also completely unnecessary; WP:NOT#DIR, I also pared the trivia section down to a single entry and renamed it "Planned Sequel" DiggyG 05:34, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I see some items have been integrated into the prose of the article, but some are missing. I am in favor of re-instating the pop culture and trivia sections to include these items or else integrate them elsewhere in the article. Here is a link to the removed sections. Ozmaweezer (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

See WP:TRIVIA. Unless they actually are encyclopedic, they do not belong. Can you point to specific items from the lists that you feel are encyclopedic and worth including? AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

If they are worthy of inclusion, it should be in the article, not a separate "trivia" section.Murderbike (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I still think the trivia and In pop culture sections should be re-instated. See this for my reasons. Ozmaweezer (talk) 11:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Whether or not there is a "trivia section", the specific things that I deleted are not encyclopedic, and should not be restored.DiggyG (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ghost of Canterville

Beetlejuice seems to have drawn at least some inspiration from Ocar Wilde's famous novella The Ghost of Canterville: For instance the theme of some ghosts unsuccessfully trying to spook a bunch of awfully annoying and decadent living folks - that unfortunately enough won't let themselves be impressed by any hocuspocus - out of their house ist clearly rooted in the Wilde story. Might be worthwile mentinoning —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.142.250.28 (talk) 20:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Questions

Was there ever any indication on how Beetlejuice died or what he was before he died? 66.65.244.151 22:25, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Closed captioning error?

I am watching the movie right now on Bravo (television network). The Closed Captioning spells the family's name "Deitz" (plural: the "Deitzs.") NBK1122 (talk) 02:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Budget?

Was the budget 13 million or 11 million? 71.242.236.237 (talk) 22:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Good article review

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Congratulations, this article meets the Good article standards, so therefore I have passed it as Good article.

Zenlax ^{T C S} 19:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Disputed listing

I'm afraid I do not agree that this article meets the GA criteria. In particular the prose is not of an acceptable standard. A few examples:

• "She personally recommends the Maitlands not to accede the help of Betelgeuse."

• "The obnoxious "bio-exorcist" Betelguese sitting on tombostones"

• "While it is demonstrated that all ghosts are capable of bizarre supernatural 'talents' ...". Capable of talents?

• "The film would eventually gross $73,707,461 in North America". Tense.

• "... Smith passed on in favor of Superman Lives". Smith died?

• "The show broadcasted on ABC from 9 September ...".

• "Michael Keaton expressed high enthusiasm of returning in January 2005 ..".

I'll leave the GA listing for a few days to allow time for the prose to be tightened up. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

OK all of that stuff has been passed. Now what. —Wildroot (talk) 20:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

They were just some examples. What about: "Considering the scale and scope of the effects, which included stop-motion, replacement animation, make-up effects, puppetry and blue screen, it was always Burton's intentions to make them similar to the B movies Burton grew up with as a child." Does that make sense to you? As a supplementary question, do you consider IMD to be a reliable source? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

As my concerns have not been addressed, I've delisted this article. If you disagree with my decision, please free to request a review at WP:GAR. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 15:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Put "Theme Park Attraction" here

Because there are no links for this section, I have decided to move it on the talk page.

The success of the film had spawned stage attractions at the Universal Studios Theme Parks. The show is currently playing at both Universal Studios Florida and Universal Studios Japan.

The show opened at Universal Studios Florida in 1992 under the name of "Beetlejuice's Rock 'N' Roll Graveyard Revue. It replaced "An American Tail Live" Show which opened in 1991 and closed in early 1992 to make way for the production. The show plays at the Amphitheatre at the San Francisco Area in Florida. The show originally featured a cast which included the Universal Classic Monsters such as; Dracula, The Wolf Man, Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein and The Phantom of The Opera performing a mixture of songs from the 70's, 80's and the 90's. In 2002, the show went through a refurbishment such as set pieces, costumes, choreography, special effects and songs to keep up with the state-of-the-art music. The Phantom of The Opera was replaced by 2 new characters named Hip & Hop who serve as back up dancers in the show.

The show opened at Universal Studios Japan as part of the grand opening on March 31 2001. The show is currently playing at the Hollywood Area in Japan. The show is similar to the Florida Version except it is performed entirely in Japanaese and it plays under the name of "Universal Monsters Live Rock And Roll Show".

The show opened at Universal Studios Hollywood in the Summer of 1992. It originally played on a small outdoor stage near the current site of the Terminator 2:3D Attraction before transferring to the Castle Theatre at the Upper Lot in 1995. The show featured all of the Original Classic Monsters and was considered a successful attraction at the Park. Despite the show's success among visitors and tourists, the attraction closed in September 1999. The building remained dark for 2 1/2 years until it was replaced by a new Musical based on Spider-Man (2002-2004) and Fear Factor Live! (2005-2008). A new musical based on Creature From The Black Lagoon will open at the Theatre in Spring 2009. Wildroot (talk) 03:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

main character name

This article is a mess. The spelling Beetle Juice, Beetlejuice and Betelgeuse are variously used. I am changing all the names to Beetlejuice, the most common usage. I read and deleted the "Warning" at the top of the article. This is not the way that Wikipedia works, discuss your issues here and a user consensus will emerge. --Brideshead (talk) 20:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It may be the most common spelling, but the movie makes it very clear that his name is Betelgeuse. 68.197.166.162 (talk) 04:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please decide on whether or not we're going to use Beetle Juice or Beetlejuice throughout the article? The name is listed both ways multiple times and the back-and-forth over something as simple as the character's name is becoming tiresome. Sottolacqua (talk) 03:49, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm positive that the character is Betelgeuse (like the star) and that the title of the movie is a reference to how Betelgeuse hinted at how to pronounce his name when the Maitlands struggled (if it were spelled Beetlejuice, it's doubtful he'd need to hint at how to pronounce it). --Evice (talk) 23:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. He is listed as "Betelgeuse" in the closing credits. Wildroot (talk) 00:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

And yet he is Beetle Juice (two words) in the opening credits. It's not exactly cut and dry. 86.43.212.208 (talk) 04:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This article is STILL a mess gang, I thought a consensus was reached??? 70.91.35.27 (talk) 20:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)T

It's quite simple - the character's name is shown onscreen and in the credits to be spelled "Betelgeuse". The film is spelled "Beetlejuice". There is no need for discussion, as there is only one possible right spelling for the character's name. MikeWazowski (talk) 02:32, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually you're wrong there. His name in the credits is "Beetle Juice". Serendi^podous 13:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I vote that it should be changed to "Beetlejuice" regardless of how it's represented in the credits. Culturally, it is widely known as "Beetlejuice," and spelling it any other way will prove confusing to most readers. Furthermore, there is no consensus on the pronunciation of the star "Betelgeuse" (which in scientific communities tends to be "BAY-tehl-jooz"), and this association only confounds the issue further. Cavatica (talk) 16:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I added in three references to the Beetlejuice#Cast section: One showing "Beetle Juice" and two for "Betelgeuse". For the three scripts listed as references, two do not produce any results for "Beetlejuice", and the third, labeled February 3, 1987 revised second draft, produces only one instance of the character being referred to as "Beetlejuice" by another character. Only the first lists dialogue for a character labeled "Beetle Juice"; the other two list the character as "Betelgeuse". If another editor wishes to change the character's name to "Beetlejuice", please provide the required source.

The movie title is reflected correctly as Beetlejuice throughout the article. However, the character name should remain "Betelgeuse" in the plot section and in any other section when reference is made to the character specifically and not to the title of the movie.Sottolacqua (talk) 18:53, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree with 68.197.166.162 and with Evice and with Wildroot and with MikeWazowski and with Sottolacqua that the character's name is Betelgeuse, not Beetlejuice or Beetle Juice.

I disagree with Cavatica, who seems to be saying that Wikipedia should give its readers incorrect information because the correct information would be "too confusing" for some readers.  Not only do I disagree with the notion that this online encyclopedia should be feeding people incorrect information (regardless of the rationale), I also do not believe it will be "too confusing" for readers to figure out that his name is spelled differently from, but pronounced the same as, the film's title (especially since the article says this in no uncertain terms).

The only person who presents any reasonable argument for the name being spelled "Beetle Juice" is 86.43.212.208, who claims that his name is spelled "Beetle Juice" in the opening credits.  Perhaps it is, but his name is spelled "Betelgeuse" everywhere else, including the end credits, and most importantly, throughout the film itself. Betelgeuse's name appears as "Betelgeuse" on the little TV in the attic, on the little grave marker in the miniature cemetery, and everywhere else it is written in the actual film.  Indeed, as Evice correctly points out, it's because his name is spelled "Betelgeuse" and not "Beetle Juice" that the Maitlands have such difficulty saying his name in order to summon him. They are unaware at first that his name is pronounced "Beetle Juice" precisely because his name is spelled "Betelgeuse."  Had his name actually been spelled "Beetle Juice" instead of "Betelgeuse," then he would have simply listed his name on the little TV (etc.) as "Beetle Juice," and the Maitlands would have had zero difficulty summoning him.  Thus, we can conclude that not only is his name "Betelgeuse," but likewise that his-name-being-spelled-"Betelgeuse" is a main plot point.

Moreover, Tim Burton spells the character's name as "Betelgeuse," as does IMDb.

Sincerely,
allixpeeke (talk) 16:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Official consensus of the character's name

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was to officially list the character's name as Beetlejuice.—Wildroot (talk) 04:25, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

In recognition of the above section, we need to agree what of the character's name. Of course the title of the film is Beetlejuice. However, people also refer to the character in the film as Beetlejuice, Beetle Juice or Betelgeuse. I'll give this issue a week and see how it goes.

Feel free to state your position on naming the character to Beetlejuice, Beetle Juice or Betelgeuse by beginning a new line in this section, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons.

• Beetlejuice: I could care less what we call him, just as long as we all agree on a name. —Wildroot (talk) 18:05, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, seeing as how nobody cares about this, it's now official that he will be called Beetlejuice. —Wildroot (talk) 04:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Comment: As this "vote" was conducted in 2008, and consists of a single vote from a person who, at the time, didn't even care, I submit that this former "official consensus" be thrown out.

  Above, we see that the following people present arguments for the name being spelled Betelgeuse: (1) 68.197.166.162 (2) Evice (3) Wildroot (4) MikeWazowski (5) Sottolacqua and (6) allixpeeke.

  We only see the following people present arguments for the name being Beetle Juice: (1) 86.43.212.208 and (2) Serendi^podous.

  And we only see the following person present an argument for the name being Beetlejuice: (1) Cavatica.

  It seems clear that the current consensus, insofar as there is one, is that the character's name is actually Betelgeuse.  I submit that this should become the new official consensus.

  Sincerely,
  allixpeeke (talk) 16:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Beetlejuice/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

This article is in decent shape, but it needs more work before it becomes a Good Article.

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   In the Sequel section, it would be best to mention "Michael Keaton" first and then mention "Keaton" instead of having it the other way around.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   Dates need to be unlinked, per here. In the Reaction section, there's no need for "Metacritic" to be italicized, since its a website. In the Reaction section, "American Film Institute" doesn't need to be italicized.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   In the Cast section, I did a test preview in which I moved the image to the right and it seems fine. Don't know if that would help out or not.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   If the above statements can be answered, I will pass the article. Good luck with improving this article!

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to Wildroot for getting the stuff I left at the talk page, because I have gone off and placed the article as GA. Congrats. ;) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Alright, I fixed everything. Thanks for the review. Wildroot (talk) 16:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Footnote

This article used to have a footnote explaining the different spellings of Beetlejuice's name and when they were used, but it seems to have been removed. I was thinking it would be a good idea to put it back, to prevent people changing the name again. Serendi^podous 16:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Brideshead deleted it. Wildroot (talk) 23:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

sometimes its always on top —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.40.0.14 (talk) 20:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)