Talk:1900 Summer Olympics medal table

Suggestion

I think the site of the games would be helpful for each year the medal count is given... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.68.1.127 (talk) 14:49, 22 March 2006‎ (UTC)

Ill-advised reversion of medal table

IOC is the source of the improved count of medals for 1900. On its page for "Paris 1900", IOC states that there were 95 medal events, which corresponds to Bill Mallon's recommendation. The woefully incomplete old "IOC database" contains at least ten fewer events. In the article,I have included and cited the conclusion of Lennartz and Teutenberg, which Bill Mallon has independently confirmed. The IOC in fact has never made any decision on which events are Olympic and which are not. The claim that the IOC had made such a century-old decision was used to buttress an argument that the IOC's flawed medal count, from the archived out of date link given by the previous editor, was somehow inviolable. The IOC itself recognized this when in 2016 it obtained the rights to the OlyMADMen database (the source of the sports-reference.com data), which was created and is maintained by Bill Mallon. IOC substituted the OlyMADMen database for it's old content for the earliest Olympics. See Mallon, Bill (August 16, 2016). "The OlyMADMen and OlympStats and Sports-Reference". We have more data and stats and expertise on the Olympics than any similar group. We have far more than what can be found in Wikipedia, just for starters. You may know of the www.sports-reference.com/olympics site (SR/olympics), which is very good, but that is actually also our site – a bit more on that in a moment.... SR/olympics will be going away sometime in the not too distant future. The reason for that is within the last few months we have had some good news as we have completed discussions with the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to have them use www.olympedia.org as part of their Olympic Statistical Database. Because of this, the SR/olympics site will eventually mostly close down.

The point is that there are no official sources for "official" Olympic events of 1900, because the IOC has never made such a determination. The statement on the IOC website that there were 95 events is what we must work with. The unwarranted reversion of the medal table needs to be undone. Jeff in CA (talk) 18:24, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Below are the changes in the list of events that have led to increase in the total from 85 events in the "old IOC website" to 95 events in the "new IOC website":

• + Archery. Men's Championnat Du Monde. Previously the IOC not considered as olympic event. + Gold for France, silver for Belgium.
• + Cycling Track. Men's Points race. Previously the IOC not considered as olympic event. + Gold for Italy, silver for Germany, bronze for France.
• + Equestrian Driving. Hacks and Hunter Combined. Previously the IOC not considered as olympic event. + Gold, silver, bronze for France.
• + Equestrian Driving. Four-in-Hand Mail Coach. Previously the IOC not considered as olympic event. + Gold for Belgium, silver, bronze for France.
• + Rowing. Four-oared shell with coxswain Final 1 and Final 2. Previously the IOC considered as single event with two gold, silver and bronze.
• + Sailing. 0.5t Race 1 and Race 2. Previously the IOC considered as single event with two gold, silver and bronze.
• + Sailing. 1-2t Race 1 and Race 2. Previously the IOC considered as single event with two gold, silver and bronze.
• + Sailing. 2-3t Race 1 and Race 2. Previously the IOC considered as single event with two gold, silver and bronze.
• + Sailing. 0.5-1t Race 2. Previously the IOC only considered Race 1 as olympic event. + Gold, silver, bronze for France.
• + Sailing. 3-10t Race 1. Previously the IOC only considered Race 2 as olympic event. + Gold, bronze for France, silver for Netherland.
• + Sailing. 20t+. Previously the IOC not considered as olympic event. + Gold, silver for Great Britain, bronze for United States.
• - Shooting. Men's 25m rapid fire pistol. The IOC no longer considers as olympic event. - Gold, silver, bronze for France.

The total tally of 95 (85 + 11 - 1 = 95). Thus, a change in the overall results of countries due to a change in the number of events:

• France: gain of 9 medals (3 gold, 2 silver, 4 bronze)
• Belgium: gain of 2 medals (1 gold, 1 silver)
• Great Britain: gain of 2 medals (1 gold, 1 silver)
• Italy: gain of 1 gold
• Germany: gain of 1 silver
• Netherland: gain of 1 silver
• United States: gain of 1 bronze

Оverall medal change due to a change in the number of events: + 17 medals (6 gold, 6 silver, 5 bronze)

Reasons for medal table revisions of July 2021 need to be identified for each country affected

The medal table has been revised evidently because of the recent upgrade of the Olympics.com website to reflect the Olympedia.org site of the Olympic historians association. For documentation purposes, please identify the specific modified results by event that have resulted in the following changes being made:

• France: loss of 8 medals (2 gold, 5 silver, 1 bronze)
• Great Britain: loss of 1 gold and gain of 1 silver
• Mixed team: gain of 7 medals (2 gold, 2 silver, 3 bronze)
• Belgium: loss of 1 bronze and gain of 1 silver
• Luxembourg: gain of 1 gold
• Mexico: loss of 1 bronze

I reverted the article to the previous version pending discussion of the above. (Note that the previous version appears to have under-counted Belgium’s silver medals by 2 and to have over-counted France’s silver medals by 3 and bronze medals by 1, before any accounting for the recent improvement to the Olympics.com website.) Jeff in CA (talk) 10:52, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Because of the recent transfer of information from Olympedia.org (the Olympic historians association website) to Olympics.com (the IOC website), I tabulated the results of each event listed individually at Olympics.com on 2 August 2021. All of the changes noted above in the bulleted list are from updates made at Olympics.com to the nationalities of several athletes based on their status at the time of the 1900 Olympics. These are as follows:

• The gold medal for FRA in the marathon won by Michel Theato is now attributed to LUX.
• The silver medal for FRA in 25 km track cycling won by Lloyd Hildebrand is now attributed to GBR.
• The bronze medal for FRA in water polo (Libellule de Paris) is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (Bill Burgess was from Great Britain).
• The gold medal for GBR in water polo is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (Victor Lindberg was from New Zealand).
• The silver medal for FRA in cricket is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (at least 11 members of the team were British nationals, two of whom were born in France; another, H. F. Roques, as well those shown on the scoresheet as “extras”, may have been French).
• The gold medal for FRA in rugby is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (Constantin Henriquez was from Haiti; Andre Roosevelt was a French-born citizen of USA).
• The silver medal for FRA in tug of war is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (Francisco Henríquez de Zubiría was born in COL and was a Colombian citizen).
• The bronze medal for BEL in football is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (Eric Thornton was from GBR, Hendrik van Heuckelum was from NED).
• The bronze medal for MEX in polo is now attributed to Mixed Team ZZX (William Hayden Wright was from USA).
• The silver medal for FRA in men's trap shooting won by René Guyot is now attributed to BEL.
• The silver medal for FRA in Basque pelota is now not attributed to anyone. The French team withdrew shortly before the competition.

Jeff in CA (talk) 11:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Great job, Jeff in CA! I made one addition to your summary regarding the trap event in shooting. Nitobus (talk) 09:28, 7 August 2021 (UTC) And one addition regarding the Basque Pelota event. Nitobus (talk) 12:40, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

95 events, 93 bronze medals (37 to FRA)

Because of the recent transfer of information from Olympedia.org (the Olympic historians association website) to Olympics.com (the IOC website), I tabulated the results of each event listed individually at Olympics.com on 2 August 2021. Although there are 95 events that are included in the tally, there are just 93 bronze (third place) medals allocated. Of these, 37 are shown within the individual event results as being won by the NOC of France (FRA). This matches the 37 bronze medals for France shown in the overall medal table at Olympics.com. (Note: As most editors know, actual NOCs did not exist in 1900, but it is conventional to refer to them for the purposes of tabulation and record-keeping.) The total number of bronze medals tallied by each NOC, including Mixed Team ZZX, is 93. There are 7 events in which an extra bronze (third place) medal is recorded (4 tennis events, 1 polo, 1 shooting, 1 water polo). There are 9 events in which zero bronze (third place) medals are recorded (2 in archery, 1 each in athletics, Basque pelota, cricket, croquet, rugby, shooting, and tug of war). This is in agreement with the total tally of 93 (95 + 7 - 9 = 93). Jeff in CA (talk) 01:12, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Note: The two equestrian driving events are included in the overall tally of 95 events. They are included in the list of 95 events at Olympedia.org (which is the source of data for Olympics.com). The overall total medals list at Olympics.com necessarily must include them for the numbers to be consistent and make sense. For an unknown reason, the individual event results of these two events are not currently shown at Olympics.com. Jeff in CA (talk) 02:39, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Two equestrian driving events aren't the only missing data on Olympics.com for 1900 Olympics. Here's a complete list:

• Equestrian Driving. Hacks and Hunter Combined event is not shown. Gold, silver, bronze for France.
• Equestrian Driving. Four-in-Hand Mail Coach event is not shown. Gold for Belgium, silver, bronze for France.
• Equestrian Jumping. High jump individual. Gold for Italy is not shown (two gold medals were awarded in this event).
• Sailing. 0.5-1t Race 2. Bronze for France is not shown.
• Sailing. Open class. Bronze for France is not shown.

Nevertheless, the overall total medals list at Olympics.com includes all of these missed medals. Nitobus (talk) 13:00, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

About all revisions of IOC medal tables that were made in July 2021, see also:

• Talk:1896_Summer_Olympics_medal_table
• Talk:1904_Summer_Olympics_medal_table
• Talk:1912_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

Nitobus (talk) 08:06, 11 August 2021 (UTC)