Talk:2025 FIFA Club World Cup/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Espérance de Tunis

Why are you adding Espérance de Tunis ? It is clearly said : "If a club wins two or more seasons of their confederation's top club competition, additional teams will be determined by a club ranking of the four-year period."? But not during the year, it will be at the end of the four-year period.

It is not mentionned that the highest non-qualified team has qualified to replace the winner of the CAF Champions League 2023-2024 during that year, we must wait after the 2023–24 CAF Champions League to declare who will replace the winner of the 2022–23 CAF Champions League. So the berth of the Winners of the 2022–23 CAF Champions League will go the highest club AT THE END of the four-year period, and it's way to soon to affirm that it will be Espérance de Tunis.

I looked across all the Internet and didn't find a single source mentionning that Espérance de Tunis has qualified, even from FIFA.

What if a club other than Tunis is better ranked AFTER the 2023-2024 period ?

If you keep insisting that Tunis qualified, please remove the "Slot allocation and qualification" section because otherwise it is non-sense with your claim.

As of today, it is impossible to say that Espérance de Tunis has qualified, even FIFA has not publied something about it. 2A01:CB14:11BC:CF00:35A4:B16E:1FBC:DD2 (talk) 22:51, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

What's more it is said "The calculation method for the four-year club rankings within each confederation will be based on sporting criteria during seasons completed between 2021 and 2024, and will be finalized after consultation with confederations and stakeholders.". So the calculation of the ranking is clearly at the end of the four-year period, and today we can't know it is for sure Espérance de Tunis which qualified, we have to wait until the end of 2023-2024.

So please, read the section and stop adding Espérance de Tunis, because sa for today, it is not true. Maybe they will qualify, but today we can't say that it is true. 2A01:CB14:11BC:CF00:35A4:B16E:1FBC:DD2 (talk) 22:53, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

And for those who will say that there is no source/reference for the other 9 teams : you are wrong !

Here for the first 8 teams : https://www.fifa.com/news/all-six-fifa-member-confederations-assured-places-at-expanded-2025-fifa-club (by FIFA)

Here for Urawa Red Diamonds : https://fr.besoccer.com/info/les-urawa-red-diamonds-champions-d-asie-1251251 + https://twitter.com/UrawaRedsFR/status/1655985364413104129 2A01:CB14:11BC:CF00:35A4:B16E:1FBC:DD2 (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the IP, the ranking method was meant for at the end of the 4 Champions League competitions, and not just the best ranked of this competition. Mwiqdoh (talk) 06:55, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

UEFA teams

I see no doubt that we should add Bayern Munich, PSG in the allocation places for UEFA. Japhes23 (talk) 14:59, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Not yet. Wait until the top 8 are confirmed. I did previously add Inter Milan and Bayern Munich but no one knows yet. Probably next year after the Champions League. Digitslain12 (talk) 16:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

no one knows yet?

they have so much points in 4 years ranking, that they are safe in Top8 after this season. And there is a source. Future-Trunks (talk) 12:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

OK then if you provide the source, I'll add it in. Digitslain12 (talk) 12:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This was the source

Inter qualify for 2025 Club World Cup - Serpents of Madonnina

an here is the 4 year Ranking:

UEFA 4-year Club Coefficient ranking (World Cup) (fotcalc.com)

it is not official, but very easy to sum the numbers, so it should be right.

this is the last season of the 4 years and in k.o. round there are 17 Points maixmum to get. and 2 points on matchday 6 in group phase and 5 points to qualify for k.o. round (only not qualified teams can get these 5 points, the other have them already)

so there are maximum 19 or 24 points to made. Future-Trunks (talk) 08:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

so indeed Paris is also qualified for world cup if you look at the table, but there ist no source, which told it yet. Future-Trunks (talk) 08:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

alright got it Digitslain12 (talk) 13:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@Digitslain12@Future-Trunks@Japhes23 can we link https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/club/#/yr/2024 or UEFA 4-year Club Coefficient ranking (World Cup) (fotcalc.com) this to all 8 uefa 4 year ranking slots as Citation 122.187.144.98 (talk) 15:12, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

FIFA Club World Cup 2025 - key details confirmed

fifa confirmes Future-Trunks (talk) 17:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Terms we use

Alright, I'll leave it here to start but because of a Wikipedia consensus, any event in the United States without exception must use the term soccer. I understand that our non-American readers will disagree and take offense, but this is from MOS:TIES. Now I don't know if Wikipedia will ever have a discussion about this again, but the decision was made and it will stand. Digitslain12 (talk) 23:26, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

To say non-American (or rather mostly European and African, soccer IS used outside the Americas as well) readers will be offended is a bit of an exaggeration.Tvx1 00:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

ok yeah was much. Digitslain12 (talk) 01:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

MOS:TIES specifies strong national ties to a topic. Given that the topic is about an edition of an internationally-governed competition where participating teams are from all over the world, I don't agree that there is a "strong national" tie to the 2025 FIFA Club World Cup. Frojas798 (talk) 16:29, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

MOS:TIES says "strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation." And the topic of this article is 2025 FIFA Club World Cup, not FIFA Club World Cup. For this tournament, that particular English-speaking nature would be the United States, as it is the host of the tournament. This is the same reasoning that established consensus for the 1994 FIFA World Cup and the 2026 FIFA World Cup, so we should be using American English and MDY dating conventions. Jay eyem (talk) 19:39, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Status

The background section currently states that in December 2022 the expansion was still not approved and legal action was threatened against in. Then it jumps to June 2023 with the announcment of the host country and the format. So what’s the situation. Have the six confiderations approved the expansion then? What happened with the legal action? Tvx1 01:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

"Future FIFA Club World Cup (China)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Future FIFA Club World Cup (China) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 17 § Future FIFA Club World Cup (China) until a consensus is reached. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 18:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2023

Remove Sevilla from note 9. Since they were eliminated from all UEFA Competitions they can't possibly gain more coefficient points, which makes it impossible for them to qualify (they can't overtake Barcelona). Juventus should also be eliminated from this note, as they are not able to play any UEFA matches this season, making it also impossible for them to get enough points to get ahead of Roma.

The note should read "A further Italian team (one of Roma or Napoli) is guaranteed to finish in the top eight eligible teams in the ranking." Frojas798 (talk) 16:18, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Lightoil (talk) 12:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

2023/24

Is the 2023/24 Club coefficients rankings the one that is determining the clubs ? If 2023/24 UEFA Champions League holders are one of the six, already qualified then their spot would go to Ajax.

• Manchester City
• Bayern Munich
• Real Madrid
• Paris Saint-Germain
• Liverpool
• Inter Milan
• Leipzip
• Chelsea
• Manchester United
• Roma
• Borussia Dortmund
• Barcelona
• Atletico Madrid
• Sevilla
• Villarreal
• Juventus
• Napoli
• Bayer Leverkusen
• FC Porto
• Benefica
• Arsenal
• Atalanta
• Ajax

Japhes23 (talk) 02:10, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello Japhes23 no its a bit other they made only for UEFA other Rules and only UCL Games count no games in Euroleague or Conference League and UEFA Counts 2 for a win and 1 for a draw but only for this world cup Points for Entering Grrop Stage and 5 for entering final of 16 list is as follows:

1. Manchester City 116 Points (Qualified as Champion)

2. Real Madrid 106 Points (Qualified as Champion)

3. Bayern München 100 Points (Qualified over Points in this Table)

4. Chelsea London 79 Points (Qualified as Champion)

5. Paris St.Germain 77 Points (Qualified over Points in this Table)

6. FC Liverpool 76 Points (Eleminated could only Qualify as Champion England has already 2 Teams)

7. Inter Mailand 74 Points (Qualified over Points in this Table)

8. Borussia Dortmund 67 Points

9. FC Porto 66 Points (Qualified over Points in this Table)

10. Atletico Madrid 62 Points

11. RB Leipzig 61 Points

12. FC Barcelona 55 Points

13. Benfica Lissabon 52 Points (Qualified over Points in this Table)

14. Juventus Turin 47 Points (Can only qualify when Neapel don get to much points they arent in this competition)

15. FC Sevilla 42 Points (Eleminated)

16. AC Mailand 41 Points (Eleminated)

17. SSC Neapel 41 Points

18. RB Salzburg 40 Points

19. Ajax Amsterdam 39 Points (Eleminated)

20. Club Brugge 35 Points (Eleminated)

21. Manchester Utd 35 Points (Eleminated) Eschmer71 (talk) 00:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Also Chances to qualify have only

Lazio Rom 33 Points as Champion or have to get more points then Juve and Neapel

FC Kopenhagen, Real Sociedad San Sebastian, Arsenal London and PSV Eindhoven as Champion Eschmer71 (talk) 00:24, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Error

I made the change to remove the extra Spanish flag on the account, but this is heavily inaccurate. If you read it as it is now it shows that the Spanish might receive 3slots which is incorrect. The correction I made (which thanks to those who grammar checked) shows the accurate standings for which sides can still qualify via Uefa rankings as the next teams along. European website This info been sourced via Kassies TGOTTNPL (talk) 10:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

"United States 2025" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect United States 2025 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 24 § United States 2025 until a consensus is reached. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:36, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

AFC Qualification

So we now have official numbers from FIFA, and they are here:

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-rankings/mundial-de-clubes

On the AFC tab, we have Jeonbuk at 79, Ulsan at 71, and Al Nassr at 58.

Al Nassr can gain at most 21 points without winning Champions League - they win both games against Al Ain, and then win both games against either Al-Hilal or Al-Ittihad. They they win one of the two games against the East Asian bracket representative, and lose the other, losing the final in the process. This puts them at 79.

Jeonbuk and Ulsan play each other in the quarterfinals. As long as Jeonbuk draws at least one of the two games, they get to 80, and are guaranteed ahead of Al Nassr. But if they don't draw at least one of the two games, Ulsan must win them both, giving them an additional 9 points, putting them on 80 points. Either way, a Korean club will be guaranteed to go to Club World Cup - either one of Jeonbuk or Ulsan will win AFC Champions League and therefore clinch, or someone else will and one of those Korean sides will be tops in the rankings. Wjmorris3 (talk) 20:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Wjmorris3@Eschmer71 why don't we fill the host slot with MLS. It is the top division league of usa —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 04:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

We do have to wait for FIFA to decide how they're doing that and if it's via MLS we cannot assume that the winner is American. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver all field clubs. Wjmorris3 (talk) 02:05, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

@Wjmorris3@Eschmer71 how can 26 teams qualify for tournament via CONMEBOL Club ranking https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_FIFA_Club_World_Cup&oldid=1211684246 —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 11:53, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

First Time this Event hasn't started only Qualifying matches have been played...means all Teams who are in the Competition can Qualify...Flamengo as Champion have had 52 Points River plate starts with 3 Points in the first stage if they loose all games a team with today 15 Points may overvome them or if a team wins for the second time 3 Place would be enough to got through then every team what have minimum 5 Points could overcome Olimpia Asuncion...the "problem" is that there are no group matches played after the Group stage it might be clearer...

1. Boca Juniors B.A. ARG 71,000 Points (not in this Competition)

2. River Plate B.A. ARG 67,000 Points

3. Olimpia Asuncion PAR 57,000 Points (not in this Competition)

4. Nacional Montevideo URU 40,000 Points (3.Qualifying Round)

5. Independiente del Valle ECU 41,000 Points

6. Barcelona Guayaquil ECU 40,000 Points

and so far... Eschmer71 (talk) 17:28, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 13:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

So now if ulsan wins a semi match anspd the acl winner is its semi oppon3nt or al-ain then instead of jeonbuk, ulsan is qualifying —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 03:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

For them it has been a win win to play against Jeonbuk so they couldn't get points against another opponent and they shortened the distance elementary... Now Ulsan has the better cards... Eschmer71 (talk) 18:35, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Noice ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 04:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Off topic

Sadly al nassr is out —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 03:48, 12 March 2024 (UTC) I'm sorry I can feel with you 2012 we lost against Chelsea... in Munich is told, Chelsea doesn't now up to now why they won the game...we only forgot to score...got in front shortly for the end..equalizer narrow the final whistle...ribery was injured in extra time the following penalty was missed...and then the penalty shoot out...first in front and then our players lost their nerves...Drogba scored for the win...that was really a poor result in a home game...would nothing say but chelsea had been very destructive...nearly the same as Argentina in World Cup Final 1990...That Result felt totally wrong... Eschmer71 (talk) 06:58, 12 March 2024 (UTC) Can FIFA use its powers. It has invitational rights for 2 clubs in this competition @Eschmer71 —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 07:03, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

UEFA slot

one spot will go to one of the following teams: PSV, Copenhagen, Arsenal (if they win the champions league) or Salzburg (if none of the previous ones wins the champions league). 5.90.113.131 (talk) 12:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@5.90.113.131 I was right 5.90.123.51 (talk) 21:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

yes it's a bit weird that FC Liverpool has no chance but its because 2 English Teams won the UEFA Champions League RB Salzburg is through Eschmer71 (talk) 18:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Presentation of the 4-year coefficient ranking

I would suggest showing the 4-year rankings (based on UCL only) for qualification in the article. Unfortunately, so far I only know of this one website for UEFA (FOTCALC - 4-year-ranking), which is updated regularly after UCL-Match days.

That's why I'm reluctant to include this when there isn't a website for reference for the other confederations. Miria~01 (talk) 15:58, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Miria~01 I am an afc fan and I collect the ranking for afc but. I have some questions 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

CLUB RANKING AND QUALIFICATION

- Clubs will be ranked based on sporting criteria over four seasons to secure qualification for the Club World Cup.

- Teams will get three points for a win, one point for a draw and three points for progress to each stage of their confederation's premier competition. 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Are by this rule any knockout or qualifier match win gives you 6 points 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

If such then i have summed up the contenders for afc ranking slot 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

(non champions)

• Jeonbuk Hyundai Motors- 67 points
• Ulsan Hyundai - 62 points
• Pohang Steelers,Kawasaki Frontale - 51 points
• Al Nassr - 49 points

Max point gained by acl knockout teams from PQF to ending up as runners up is 18 points and say if jeonbuk wins acl and you need to topple ulsan else in other case you need to topple jeonbuk so only these teams can qualify. So these are the contenders (i have the analysis but hard to put here else the talk page will be flooded) 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Rest confederations are with longer list than afc so cant make now 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Let them start or reach knockout 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Ref of afc list is all champions league matches 122.187.144.98 (talk) 03:57, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Also I have counted only acl matches as ranking no respective national tournaments if really counted no sign of that in counting rules 122.187.144.98 (talk) 10:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I made my table based on the rules of the Fifa in Dezember for Africa 2021-2024 (2024 still running)

did also start with points at the group stage...

1. Al Ahly (already qualified as Champion)

2. Wydad Casablanca (already qualified as Champion)

3. Mamelodi Sundowns 72 Points

4. Esperence de Tunis 64 Points

5. CR Belrouizdad 47 Points Eschmer71 (talk) 21:57, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Now CR Belrouizdad are eleminated in the Group Stage so they can't go through and cannot overcome Mamelodi Sundowns or Esperance de Tunis...

1. Al Ahly Kairo (Qualified as Champion)

2. Wydad WAC Casablanca (Qualified as Champion)

3. Mamelodi Sundowns 75 Points (Quaterfinalist)

4. Esperance de Tunis 67 Points (still in the Competition)

5. CR Belouizdad (eleminated)

6. Simba Kariakoo 43 Points (still in the Competition)

7. Petro de Luanda 39 Points (Quaterfinalist)

8.-9. (not in this Competition)

10. Al Hilal Omdurman 23 Points (still in the Competition)

11.-13 (not in this Competition)

14. TP Mazembe Lubumbashi 15 Points (Quaterfinalist)

Additional Quaterfinalists: ASEC Mimosas Abidjan (CIV) 11 Points, Young Africans (TZA) 8 Points

further still in the Competition: Jwaneg Galaxy (BOT) 4 Points Eschmer71 (talk) 11:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

So one of Mamelodi Sundowns or Esperance de Tunis only now @Eschmer71 —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 11:55, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Or both if Al Ahly Kairo or Wydad wins the Cup...all the others would have to be Champion or would have to have so much Points that they only could get with winning the Cup... Eschmer71 (talk) 18:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Ya —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 18:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The last Games of the Group Stage CAF have been played:

Standings now (only Competing Teams):

1. Mamelodi Sundowns 93 Points

2. Esperance Tunis 85 Points

...

3. Petro de Luanda 57 Points (to far away)

4. Simba Kariakoo 55 Points (to far away)

...

Only if Al Ahly Cairo wins the Cup for the 3rd time in this four years or no other teams overtakes one of them both Mamelodi and Esperance go further minimum

one of them will join the Club World Cup Final Round. Eschmer71 (talk) 17:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

after the lost of TP Mazembe

Mamelodi Sundowns and Esperance Tunis are already qualified. Eschmer71 (talk) 21:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Noice ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 03:07, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Eschmer71@Future-Trunks@Miria~01@OblongBubbles@Terstegeniguess do we have the host slot criteria out of the following

1) current supporters sheild winner

2)current mls cup winner

3) 4 year supporters sheild ranking

4) 4 year mls cup ranking

5) 4 year all mls matches ranking

6) current leagues cup winner

7) current us open winner

8) 4 year leagues cup ranking

9) 4 year us open ranking

10) 4 year leagues cup+mls ranking

11) 4 year cumulative ranking

12) invitation

13)etc. ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 05:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thats what google says..

As the United States has an extra place in the competition as host nation, that spot would go to the winner of the current season's MLS, leaving Inter Miami with a decent chance of qualifying. Eschmer71 (talk) 07:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Show the article and what mls cup or supporters-shield @Eschmer71 ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 13:45, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Thats stands on the Fifa side:

The fourth spot will go to the winners of the 2024 Champions Cup, with the final due to take place on 2 June 2024.

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/tournaments/mens/mundial-de-clubes/usa-2025/articles/race-mundial-de-clubes-fifa-qualification-heats-up-around-globe Eschmer71 (talk) 07:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry they meant the CONCACAF Champions Cup 2024 thats the regular spot the host spot stands...

Details regarding the host slot allocation will be announced in due course. Eschmer71 (talk) 07:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 13:49, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

If motenerry losss then @Eschmer71 ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 13:44, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Thats another possibility

In this article stands the winner of MLS CUP 2024

https://bolavip.com/en/soccer/can-inter-miami-play-in-the-fifa-club-world-cup-in-2025

Its really hard to find because it diddn't be announced right now Eschmer71 (talk) 08:39, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 13:49, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, no announcement yet. I highly doubt that it would be by invitation as FIFA has said in the past that selection of clubs for this tournament will be by sporting merit. OblongBubbles (talk) 12:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@Eschmer71@OblongBubbles fifa secretly has rights to invite 2 teams to this club world cup https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/news-fifa-will-invite-barcelona-participate-new-club-world-cup-2025-reports#:~:text=FIFA%20will%20reportedly%20not%20invite,very%20successful%20in%20recent%20years. ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 17:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

How this should work with 32 Teams ? I Think this is a spoof...On Fifa side is nothing told about wildcards or something like that...

In My opinion there shouldnt be Salzburg and Benfica/Porto (maybeonlyoneofthem) but Barca and Liverpool...but this are Fifa Regulations notn mine... Eschmer71 (talk) 17:53, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, there is no space for extra clubs. Can't make a world cup style tournament with 34 teams. OblongBubbles (talk) 18:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Qualifier system with ofc or hosts. Rules can be twistedby fufa if they need. ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 19:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Fifa was claimed that it hates barca https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/news-fifa-will-invite-barcelona-participate-new-club-world-cup-2025-reports#:~:text=FIFA%20will%20reportedly%20not%20invite,very%20successful%20in%20recent%20years ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 02:30, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

And now we have the ultimate show down in Africa...

Semifinal Esperance Tunis vs Mamelodi Sundowns...the winner has good chances to go to Fifa Club World Cup OK Mamelodi is 8 in Front but if Esperance win both games they would get 6 points per game and 3 Points for reaching the Final...with 9 point they would be in front in this race... Eschmer71 (talk) 20:19, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

With the same Base like in Africa and Asia I made also a table for Copa Libertadores

1. Palmeiras (Qualified as Champion)

2. Flamengo (Qualified as Champion)

3. Atletico Mineiro (Cannot qualify over Coefficient because of Brasil nationality (there are 3 Brazilian Copa Libertadores Champions ! Must be Champion to get further)

4. Fluminense (Qualified as Champion)

5. Boca Juniors 61 Points (Their problem they arent qualified for 2024 cant get more points)

6. River Plate 55 Points

7.-12. Teams are not qualified for 2024 Competition

13. National Montevideo 31 Points (has to play Qualifikation round to go to GroupStage)

14. Barcelona Guayaquil 27 Points

15. Cerro Porteno, Estudiantes de La Plata, Independiente de Valle each 24 Points

... Eschmer71 (talk) 22:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello I made also a table with the 3 year`s including the actual season beginning with the group stage round in my opinion the qualifikation rounds make not to much sense Yeonbuk is the same first at the moment but Al Nassr missed a grozp stage and are in my list more behind...Do all Group Stage Teams compete in all Qualifikation rounds ? when you count all points teams would be disadvantaged who havent to play this stages... Eschmer71 (talk) 21:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

This is not said in club coefficient ranking whether we start from competition proper or not. —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 13:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello it´s not said but the Logic whould say that is would be a disadvantage for the Teams who haven't to play the qualifikation round.

But here They tell it starts with the GROUP STAGE:

The Council unanimously confirmed the club ranking methodology to be used as part of the key principles of access, which were approved at the Council’s meeting in March 2023.

With the objective of ensuring the highest quality possible based on sporting criteria over the most recent four seasons, starting from the group stage of the confederation’s relevant premier club competition, and incentivising the result of every game in the respective tournament, the following methodology for the new standard ranking was approved:

3 points for a win

1 point for a draw

3 points for progress to each stage of the competition

Only Difference is Europe:

In the case of European clubs, given that three full seasons and a full group stage of the fourth season of the UEFA Champions League have already been completed, and since UEFA has an existing club coefficient system, the current pre-existing methodology principles for the purpose of calculating the UEFA club coefficient in relation to matches in the UEFA Champions League only will be exceptionally applied to determine the ranking of European clubs for the FIFA Club World Cup 2025™.

The approved methodology for the ranking of European teams is therefore as follows:

2 points for a win

1 point for a draw

4 points for qualification for the group stage

5 points for qualification for the round of 16

1 point for progress to each stage of the competition thereafter

Thats from the Website of FIFA

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/tournaments/mens/fifa-club-world-cup/articles/fifa-council-confirms-key-details-club-world-cup-2025 Eschmer71 (talk) 13:37, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Then ok —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 13:39, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I added the rankings contenders of caf and copa Libertadores. Anyone has for concacaf Monterrey Football Club won the 2024 edition then who is qualifying?@Eschmer71 —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 13:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Thats my CONCACAF Table

CONCACAF Champions League 4-Jahreswertung Vereine (Qualif.zur FIFA Klub-WM 2025 in den USA)

Plz. Land Titel 2021 2022 2023 2024 Status Summe

1 Club León MEX 1 4,000 13,000 30,000 0,000 N Q 47,000 QUALIFIED

2 Cruz Azul Mexiko City MEX 19,000 20,000 0,000 0,000 N A 39,000

3 Philadelphia Union USA 19,000 0,000 18,000 0,000 Q 37,000

4 CF Monterrey MEX 1 31,000 0,000 0,000 0,000 Q Q 31,000 QUALIFIED

5 Seattle Sounders FC USA 1 0,000 28,000 0,000 0,000 N Q 28,000 QUALIFIED

6 Club America Mexiko City MEX 25,000 0,000 0,000 0,000 Q 25,000

7 Los Angeles FC USA 0,000 0,000 25,000 0,000 N A 25,000

8 UNAM Mexiko City MEX 0,000 24,000 0,000 0,000 N A 24,000

9 UANL Tigres MEX 0,000 0,000 20,000 0,000 Q 20,000

10 New York City FC USA 0,000 19,000 0,000 0,000 N A 19,000

11 Columbus Crew FC USA 13,000 0,000 0,000 3,000 S 16,000

12 New England Revolution USA 0,000 15,000 0,000 0,000 Q 15,000

13 Atlanta United FC USA 13,000 0,000 0,000 0,000 N A 13,000

14 Comunicaciones F.C. GUA 0,000 12,000 0,000 0,000 A A 12,000

15 CD Olimpia Tegucigalpa HON 6,000 0,000 6,000 0,000 N A 12,000

16 Motagua Tegucigalpa HON 0,000 4,000 8,000 0,000 N A 12,000

17 Violette AC Port-au-Prince HAI 0,000 0,000 12,000 0,000 N A 12,000

18 LD Alajuelense CRI 3,000 0,000 6,000 3,000 S 12,000

Eschmer71 (talk) 14:27, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Cleared version of N/A,AA, winners and Mexicans this year

Plz. Land Titel Status Summe

3 Philadelphia Union USA (37 points)

11 Columbus Crew FC USA (16 points)

12 New England Revolution USA (15 points)

18 LD Alajuelense CRI (12 points)

25 Deportivo Saprissa S.José CRI (7 points)

Whats the max points as runners up available this season?

In 2021 it is 31, 2022 it is 28 and in 2023 its 30. —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 18:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

30 if i exclude round 1 and exclude winning final chances? —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 18:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Starting with round of 16 all teams may hav the same Chance to get points...

I Think 33 Points are maximium to get as Runner up (9+9+9+6).

And if there will be a new Champion the CONCACAF Table doesnt have any meaning.

CONCACAF gets 4 Places and 1 Place will be another USA Team. Eschmer71 (talk) 21:26, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes you are right because there is only one Final not home and away match...

maximum 30 Points (9+9+9+3) Eschmer71 (talk) 22:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't US already have 2 teams? Seattle and host slot? So I think that US teams would be excluded if Monterrey would win it this year. Right now it would be Alajuelense, Communicaciones, or Violette depending on how they deal with points during first round because of the byes. OblongBubbles (talk) 19:15, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

FIFA didn't tell anything about this I don't think that the US Team would be not taken into account.

Mexiko has already 2 Teams because of 2 Champions thats clear. But I think the host team is a different

thing. Eschmer71 (talk) 19:33, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Same views —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 19:39, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

The FIFA plus article lists all the slots including the host slot and then right below that it says 2 clubs per country except if they all win their top continental club competition. I think it's pretty clear it'll only be 2 clubs for the US. But we shall see. OblongBubbles (talk) 19:54, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

In CONCACAF its quiet different then in Europe and Southern America if there is a New Champion (who diddn`t win the 3 previous Competitions) the whole Table is nice to have but completely irrelevant. Then the Winner goes further and the Nationship of him is also irrelevant because Champions are automatically in the Tournament. Eschmer71 (talk) 16:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Now it's like that the last Spot of CONCACAF goes to the new winner of the actual Final :

either Pachuca or Columbus Crew... it's played in Pachuca when I good understand...

(Philadelphia hasn't got a chance to go further this way) Eschmer71 (talk) 04:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh Monterrey out ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 05:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Here is the Page of CONCACAF about the new Main Competition CONCACAF CHAMPIONS CUP 2024 https://www.concacaf.com/champions-cup/news/2024-concacaf-champions-cup-all-you-need-to-know-1/ Only if Monterrey wins this year there will this table be used. Eschmer71 (talk) 18:18, 22 February 2024 (UTC) On the CONCACAF Champions League side they told me about this Fifa Article there is Philadelphia listed as Currently leading Team: https://www.fifa.com/fifa-rankings/mundial-de-clubes Eschmer71 (talk) 12:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Eschmer71 is this official website by FIFA? —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 17:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Eschmer71 then why we are wasting time in self calculations we just cit the page on 2025 FIFA Club World Cup —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 17:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh @Eschmer71 was this page published today? Meanwhile linked the article —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 17:29, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

The Guys of CONCACAF linked It today to me I diddn't know that the page exists...but its fine that you have all Associations at one spot ! Cool Tables and the official Side what should be more to be...

In Europe there can be Austria Salzburg if a former Champion wins the Champions League... Eschmer71 (talk) 19:47, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Somit means continental spot!= host spot —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 17:31, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

This morning the last Quarterfinals have been played,

in the Competition are America (MEX), Pachuca (MEX), Columbus Crew (USA) and the former Champion of one counting Competition Monterrey CF only if Monterrey CF wins this competition the Table gets interested if another team win its through to the Finals like in all other Continental Competition (Excluding Oceania). Eschmer71 (talk) 17:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Great find! Yeah, it looks like the host spot does not matter in determining the CONCACAF spots. Now, we just wait for them to decide on how the host spot will pick chosen. Probably whatever way they can make sure Miami are part of the tournament. OblongBubbles (talk) 18:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I have asked the guys on wikipedia CONCACAF Champions Cup 2024 side the tell also that it is not exactly declared we have to wait wat Fifa tells and maybe this time Monterrey will be out then the Question is answered by itsself...And the New Champion gets further... Eschmer71 (talk) 06:23, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes thanks —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 06:35, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, yes, it's too ambiguous at this point. I wish FIFA were clear by now. OblongBubbles (talk) 14:09, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm curious about your rankings, so I recount it and here's what I have: [1]. Quite different from yours, but it shouldn't be hard to confirm.

(Results from qualifiers don't count) Terstegeniguess (talk) 08:54, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

My Rankings are quite simular...

1. Al Hilal (already qualified as Champion)

2. Jeonbuk Hyundai 63 Points (23+28+12)

3. Ulsan Hyundai 52 Points (32+10+10)

4. Kawasaki Frontale 49 Points (22+11+16)

5. Pohang Steelers 46 Points (30+0+16)

6. Al-Duhail (eleminated in 2024 Competition)

7. Urawa Red Diamonds (already qualified as Champion)

8. Al Nassr Riad 40 Points (26+0+14)

9.-13. eleminatad in 2024 Competition

14. Yokohama Marinos 28 Points (0+16+12)

Maybe the differnce I dont counted the points for next round before playing... Eschmer71 (talk) 11:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah definitely so. 14.191.230.66 (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Should I include them when editing? Terstegeniguess (talk) 15:35, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Who said —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 13:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

So how I understood you get 3 Points for a win and also 3 points per round you get further from the group stage... If there is only one match you can get 3 Points (for the match) and 3 points for the round the looser also gets the 3 points for the round he has reached...If there are 2 games per Round you can get 9 Points (3+3 for the matches und 3 points for reaching the round)...but not 6+6=12 ! Eschmer71 (talk) 21:37, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

@Eschmer71 pain if jeonbuk wins any match now al nassr out. —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 04:19, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Depends on who wins the competition you count every points when Al Nassr wins every game they win the cup and are in the tournament, other way a former Champion (Al Hilal) wins and they reach more Points then Ulsan Hyundai...

But if another Saudi Arabian Team win the AFC Champions League they are directly out.

My Table at the Moment

1. Al Hilal Riad SAR 88,000 Points (Qualified as Champion)

2. Jeonbuk Hyundai Motors KOR 70,000 Points

3 Ulsan Hyundai KOR 61,000 Points

4 Kawasaki Frontale JPN 55,000 Points (eliminated)

5 Pohang Steelers KOR 50,000 Points (eliminated)

6 Al Nassr Riad SAR 49,000 Points Eschmer71 (talk) 18:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

No bracket system is different in afc as west and east zone if al nassr is in acl final no other saudi tewm is in contention. —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 18:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Al ittihad is only other who is drawn to al hilal in quarter final —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 18:46, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that they get Jeonbuk by points...lets see further Al Hilal will go further today at the Moment 0:0HT (Agg.3:1)... Eschmer71 (talk) 18:51, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

They are winning by 5-2 —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 19:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

They won 2 times 3:1...

Table before the Quaterfinals (incl.the 3 Points for Reaching the QF):

1. Al Hilal Riad SAR (Qualified as Champion)

2. Jeonbuk Hyundai Motors KOR 73,000 Points

3 Ulsan Hyundai KOR 64,000 Points

4 Kawasaki Frontale JPN 55,000 Points (eliminated)

5 Al Nassr Riad SAR 52,000 Points 2003:CE:7F07:1800:C59F:BFF7:637B:4D73 (talk) 21:01, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

No Al Nassr has 58 points —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 03:24, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Even thix rule has loopholes. FIFA has right to invite 2 more teams to the competition —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 13:27, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Add 6 points to jeonbuk, al nassr and 7 to ulsan hd —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 03:26, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, so here's what we have.

Al Nassr is at 58. They can win twice to 67, win twice to 76, and then win one game in the Champions League final to get to 79 for the purposes of the AFC coefficients.

Currently Jeonbuk is at 79, which would be a potential tie for Al Nassr for a singular berth. Ulsan is at 71. The two play each other.

For Al Nassr to tie Jeonbuk, they have to lose both games to Ulsan, which would rocket them ahead to 80 points and Al Nassr is below them.

It looks to me that Al Nassr must either (a) win Champions League or (b) pick up enough points to pass Ulsan and then lose to Jeonbuk in the Champions League final. Wjmorris3 (talk) 03:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 04:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Qualifiying matches do not count it startes with the group stage... Eschmer71 (talk) 09:15, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Ok —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 11:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

I found another Page with the Tables Year by Year.

https://footyrankings.com/cwc/

I think mostly difference to mine was the 3 Points entering Group Stage but for the position in front less has changed only that it will be harder for Al Nassr go through points to this competition (that looks like a real mission impossible to much when and ifs) Mamelody Sundowns/Esperance Tunis (Africa), Jeonbuk/Ulsan (Asia), Philadelphia (CONCACAF, but only when Monterrey wins),

Europe Borussia Dortmund/RB Leipzig, Atletico Madrid/Barcelona, Juve/Napoli/Lazio and if a former Champion (2021-23) wins also RB Salzburg (Austria). Eschmer71 (talk) 09:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Ya he c9unts afc Club competition ranking and his rankjng is nearmost to afc. So much so that his page is cited on 2023-24 AFC Champions League, but again j just found he too makes them —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 03:56, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Now after Yesterday Elimination of RB Leipzig an additional Team has qualified for Germany Borussia Dortmund is the new Participant of FIFA Club World Cup 2025. Eschmer71 (talk) 08:26, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

After all Italian Teams are out Juventus Turin ist through to the Tournament...Atletico Madrid is 6 Points before FC Barcelona (Attention Europe counts only 2 per win in this table and this time and one per Round only if Barcelona wins both matches in the Semifinals and loose in the final with penalty shoot out they would get a draw with Atletico) that mean Barcelona must win the Cup to get through to Fifa Club World Cup...If a former Winner Team wins the UEFA Champions League RB Salzburg 40 Points will be in the Finals in USA... Eschmer71 (talk) 09:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Op —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 09:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Unbelieveable Borussia Dortmund is through to the Champions League Final 5.Place in German Bundesliga...tomorrow fights Bayern Munich in order to make a Champions League Final London reloaded (2013 Bayern-Dortmund 2:1) but that will be very hard away in Madrid lets wait and see... Eschmer71 (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Salzburg will be in the Fifa world cup, exept Arsenal wins the champions league Future-Trunks (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

OK think you are right because Real Madrid, Man City, PSG, Bayern, Dortmund are already qualified 1 spanish team else May qualify from Atletico or Barcelona (if one of both win they w'ont get another coefficient place because Real Madrid is already qualified as Champion) only Arsenal has to win to get through because there exist 2 English Teams Chelsea and City (as Champions) for me it's a bit strange Liverpool has 76 Points (Salzburg only 40 Points) maybe they have to change something for next competition...now it seems to be clear...wide open door for RB Salzburg... Eschmer71 (talk) 14:46, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Article from Sportschau about it they tell it also the same...

https://www.sportschau.de/fussball/klub-wm-fifa-bundesliga-dfl-uefa-machtkampf-geld-medien-einnahmen-eca-fifpro-100.html Eschmer71 (talk) 14:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

After this Round

Atletico Madrid and RB Salzburg are through to the Final...

upcoming Champions League Seminfinals

Bayern Munich - Real Madrid

Borussia Dortmund - Paris St.Germain Eschmer71 (talk) 18:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Where is the difference ?

Terstegeniguess and me came both at the same points:

Al Nassr Riad 52 Points (26(2021)+ 0(2022) +actually 26)

So or so I think they have to win the cup when Al Hilal wins they cannot get enough points in the table... Eschmer71 (talk) 09:13, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Wait a minute then who is updating in mainsace the figures i gave that is 58 instead of 52??? @Eschmer71 is it OK now? (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_FIFA_Club_World_Cup&oldid=1209752002) —🪦VSVNB1058 (2020-2023) (TALK) 11:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

looks good we have to see next round maybe we see in what direction the ball forces after Quarterfinals maybe it's all more clear... Eschmer71 (talk) 15:08, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

This section has turned from discussion of how to present teams in the 4-year rankings to a speculation Blog. The talk page is for the article, not speculation of "FIFA hates Barca" and "rules can be twisted by FIFA". Time to desist this conversation, and if needed, continue at an actual football blog site but not here. Matilda Maniac (talk) 08:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for that @Matilda Maniac ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 09:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

You're right @Matilda Maniac its a bit to much discussion side...I posted also to much...sorry for that only wanted to help this side growing...It's a new competition the way it will be held there is the goal of this overwelming discussions...sorry for that try to do better... Eschmer71 (talk) 17:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

This is an additional warning @Eschmer71: to not go off topic with adding blog opinions to this talk page like Unbelieveable Borussia Dortmund is through ... and WP:CRYSTAL speculations, as per your last two edits. Note that Wikipedia talk pages are not a forum for the competiton, but a forum for improving the article. WP:NOTFORUM which is mentioned at the very beginning of the talk page. So instead of try to do better, do better, please.Matilda Maniac (talk) 23:11, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

ok Eschmer71 (talk) 05:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Eligible teams 4-year ranking

Having a table for just each confederation eligible teams 4-year ranking is WP:OR. Why don't we simply wait directly the qualified teams? Island92 (talk) 18:06, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

@S.A. Julio: what do you think?--Island92 (talk) 04:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I think these various additional tables are overkill, but perhaps just need to exist in the format of teams currently in contention, and not display the multitude of teams that cannot qualify for whatever reason. Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:18, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm on the same page. Island92 (talk) 08:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for making ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 08:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

For sure, less is better. There is a lot of data to go through for no reason. Also, are we going to keep them forever? Like OFC? That is going to make the article a lot busier when the actual competition games get added. I think you turn this into a qualification article if we are going to have all these charts, and have a main article when the time comes. Chris1834 Talk 13:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Some sort of legend is needed as it's not clear what the colours mean. I assume green = "currently in a qualifying position" and red = "cannot qualify"? If so, I'm on board with removing the red teams. BLAIXX 13:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@Blaixx@Chris1834@Island92@Matilda Maniac, I understood your issues and collapsed those table and trimmed wording. ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 15:42, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

The point is different. This page regards the 2025 edition (hence the final tournament with all the teams qualified) rather than a qualification page with teams in contention to qualify or not for the specific edition. Those tables should not be there IMOP. Island92 (talk) 18:15, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree. I actually like the way they looked before but they should be in a qualification article. Chris1834 Talk 18:27, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I disagree that a separate qualification article is required, as it is not a separate qualification competition, it is several independent main competitions and a separate ranking system based on results from those independent main competitions. To fork the larger or smaller tables into a separate qualification article does not seem to be sensible. Links to those separate competitions do. Tables showing the remaining teams that can still qualify would be a table that shrinks over time and then disappears, fully replaced by the table of teams that did qualify. That prevents the need for a separate article. Matilda Maniac (talk) 22:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac it can be collapsed so it's users choice ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 05:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I could get behind this but if that is the way we want to do it, then the OFC table should be gone as Auckland is qualified. Also, in line with that, CONCACAF should be gone as well as Philadelphia have secured that spot if it becomes available through ranking and it is noted as such in the qualification table. Is a table of 1 really a table?

When they get down to one team, collapsing doesn't do anything. It still takes up the same amount of vertical space in the article. Chris1834 Talk 13:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Na headers of table like team match win and everything are gone on collapsing and just say concacaf clubs is left ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 01:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

OFC table should now disappear. CONCACAF table should stay until it is determined IF Philadelphia have secured qualification by this route or not (they are still in contention). CONMEBOL table has just shrunk by one with today's result. Matilda Maniac (talk) 02:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

There are now reverts going back and forward to remove this section from the article, based on a similar (but not quite the same) situation which existed at : This link. This should be further debated here, or perhaps soon at WP:FOOTY, rather than in major deletes with lengthy edit summaries. Matilda Maniac (talk) 09:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@Bmf 051: You should discuss the merits of keeping or removing the eligible teams 4-year ranking table here, rather than just referring to a more private debate at a User's talk page (and its links to a particular 'consensus' that was reached), as the basis for the removal.

My argument is that the 'consensus' referred to relates to the type of table introduced by User:Bmf 051, and subsequently reverted, not the type of table relating to the 4-year rankings (similar to the use of tables for UEFA coefficients used for qualification purposes). An argument that if we can't have one table, we can't have either table, is spurious. Showing all the teams that can qualify for the 2024 Copa Libertadores is unnecessary as it can be easily gleaned from that article by clicking on the link. Matilda Maniac (talk) 04:25, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac: Could you please provide the source of the information in that table? Specifically a source which indicates which teams are "in contention" and which are not. The rankings provided by FIFA's website do not show that, for example. It's difficult to have a discussion about the merits of keeping or removing information when the legitimacy of the information itself is unclear. Bmf 051 (talk) 06:08, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac the tables are listed officially at the Fifa side...https://www.fifa.com/fifa-rankings/mundial-de-clubes

The possibility for south american team is that much because the actual Copa Libertadores is just in the group stage first of all every team which isn't eleminated can go through the Champions path...over the ranking it looks like River Plate will be safe in the tournament because they are clearly in front and they make a good job in the group stage right now 3 wins in 3 matches...other teams have to overcome Boca Juniors they cant get more Points then they actual have because they arent in this competition...and the much places come over the rating depends on which team wins the cup...no brazilian team can go over the ranking way because all competing South American Champions come from Brazil (3 Teams/3 Winners) and maximium is 2 per country exceptional Winners of continental competitions... Eschmer71 (talk) 10:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Based on indentation and context, I believe that comment may have been intended for me (correct me if I am wrong). Where is the source that teams near the bottom of the table (for example) are still in contention? Note: I'm not asking you to prove it is true. I am asking you to provide a source saying that. I fully understand what you are saying. But I'm asking for a source. Bmf 051 (talk) 11:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Look here is a side with calculation year by year as you can see the most points one team got are 52 in one year (!!!) till now we aren't far away from starting the Competition so much teams could perform like that the points of Olimpia Asuncion are counting (57) because if a former winner wins the cup like Al Hilal (AFC) or Al Ahly (CAF) there will be 3 spots over the table...Asuncion can't get more points same as Boca Juniors they couldn't qualify for this competition...So every Team who is in the competition might be champion and can go this way and if a team gets summary more then 57 points and on of the former winners wins another time they can also qualify...source are this independent side and the table side of fifa... https://footyrankings.com/cwc/CONMEBOL/ Eschmer71 (talk) 11:49, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This indicates which teams can qualify via performance, which includes winning the Copa Libertadores. It for instance shows that Penarol can still qualify, though they are not in the rankings on this page. Where is the source that those listed on this page are the only teams that may qualify via ranking, or that teams not listed cannot? Bmf 051 (talk) 12:05, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

It's simple a team what hasn't competed in an former competition or which belongs to brazil can only go further with getting CHAMPION:

Atletico Mineiro, FC Sao Paulo

Huachipato, Rosario Central, Palestino, Gremio, Botafogo, Millionaros, Cobresal, San Lorenzo

If an Argentinian Team gets Champion Boca can't go further over the Ranking because River Plate

ist in front over them...

RANKING:

1. River Plate 76 Points, 2. Boca Juniors 71 Points(El.), 3. Olimpia Asuncion 57 Points(El.), 4. Nacional Montevideo 49 Points, 5. Independiente del Valle 45 Points, 6. Cerro Porteno 44 Points, 7. Barcelona Guayaquil 42 Points, 8. Bolivar LaPaz 36 Points, 9. Talleres, Sao Paulo, The Stronges, Estudiantes all 34 Points 13. Libertad 33 Points and 9 other Teams between 26 and 13 Points... Eschmer71 (talk) 12:49, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Again, we don't want your explanation. We need a source. For example, explain why Penarol cannot qualify via ranking. They have 16 points and may earn 42 more. This gives them enough to pass Olimpia. You and I know that they can't earn 42 points without winning the competition themselves. But that require advanced knowledge, beyond just basic arithmetic. That sort of information requires a source. Not an explanation from an editor. Otherwise, it is WP:OR. Bmf 051 (talk) 13:00, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Maximum 42-points left to be achieved

• 3 games left at group stage = max. 9 points
• Round of 16, Quarter, Semi, Final = 7 games = max. 21 points
• Bonus points for knockout-stages: max. 12 points to final

-----

If River Plate wins Copa Libertadores 2024, at least Olimpia with currently 57 points must be surpassed. Miria~01 (talk) 12:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not asking for an explanation. I'm asking for a source. This is your own work. And it doesn't fall under basic computations that don't require sources, because it requires knowledge of how these various tournaments work. It is unapologetically WP:OR unless you have the source. Bmf 051 (talk) 13:03, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Now Are 45 Points to get as Champion if you don't win you can get 39 Points then you might have 19 Points now to have a chance to go through as Runner up Eschmer71 (talk) 12:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not asking for an explanation. I'm asking for a source. Where is the source? You can do all the math you want, but without the source it is OR. Look at my profile. I am a mathematician. I can do these things forwards and backwards. That's not the point. Where is the source? Bmf 051 (talk) 13:05, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:CALC Routine calculations do not count as original research. Miria~01 (talk) 13:09, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This is not a routine calculation. It requires knowledge of the structure and other minutia of various tournaments. Not just basic math. And as Eschmer71 shows above, it is easy to get wrong: Eschmer71 says that 45 points go to the champion, when it's actually 42 because they haven't accounted for the fact that the final is one leg.

But lets say for a second that this is a routine calculation. Even then, there was already a consensus reached a year ago that teams in contention should not be in these articles: Talk:2023 FIFA Club World Cup#Team in contention. Bmf 051 (talk) 13:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/tournaments/mens/fifa-club-world-cup/articles/fifa-council-confirms-key-details-club-world-cup-2025

Here stand the rules for ranking every confederation (except of europe)

3 Points for reaching GroupStage

3 Points per win

1 Point per draw

3 Points for reaching next round Eschmer71 (talk) 13:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

FYI: No 3-points for title win, only for reaching each knockout stage (incl. group stage) (see also 52-points by Flamengo in the 2022 Copa Libertadores with all wins besides one draw at group stage) Miria~01 (talk) 13:13, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

That is Copy and paste from FIFA Side

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/tournaments/mens/fifa-club-world-cup/articles/fifa-council-confirms-key-details-club-world-cup-2025

3 points for a win

1 point for a draw

3 points for progress to each stage of the competition

What do you want more than the rules from the organizer... Eschmer71 (talk) 13:21, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Title is not a stage ! Miria~01 (talk) 13:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Title is Title if you win its completely Worscht (sausage) like we say in german Winner is Winner and needs no Ranking... Eschmer71 (talk) 13:25, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

It is correct that only max. 40-points (b\c draw possible, but winning would be the direct qulification) should be and are considered in this table (thats why eg. Peñarol has no chance to qualify}. Nonetheless, there are no bonus points for the title. Neither in the UEFA five-year rankings nor here at FIFA.According to you, Flamengo should have received 55 points for 2022, which was not the case. Miria~01 (talk) 13:38, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

45 Points to get plus 12 Points which some teams have are 57 Points Maximium in this Competion but only for teams with 12 Points now : Atletico Mineiro (BRA) irrelevant, River Plate and Bolivar LaPaz... Eschmer71 (talk) 13:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

All of this discussion about how the calculations work only reinforces the fact that these are not routine calculations a la WP:CALC and that they require a more nuanced understanding of how these various tournaments work. I really do believe this information, when pruned to only show "teams in contention", needs to have a source if it is going to be included.

But I think we're also ignoring the fact that there was already a consensus on this just a year ago (here and here). In light of that, I think it would be better to post this to WP:FOOTY and try to get a better consensus, which I have done here.

I'm not trying to stifle the discussion above or anything. I just think if there was a wider consensus previously, we should try to gain such a consensus again. Also I think the discussion above has devolved into a "pissing contest" about calculations, and who can do them correctly, rather than a discussion about sources, etc. Bmf 051 (talk) 22:06, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

An alternative format is presented here that just captures the leading teams, which is available directly from the FIFA website (a primary source), and therefore meets WP:OR and needs no additional calculations. Of course assumes FIFA keep this part ofthe table up-to-date, but they have during the group stage at the end of the round.

Leading teams still in contention for qualification through four-year confederations rankings

Format and Legend as per the existing table

Leading CONMEBOL clubs

Teams	2021					2022					2023					2024					Total
	W	D	L	Phase	Points	W	D	L	Phase	Points	W	D	L	Phase	Points	W	D	L	Phase	Points
River Plate†	3	4	3	QF	22	5	2	1	R16	23	4	1	3	R16	19	3	0	0	GS	12	76
Boca Juniors	3	3	2	R16	18	3	3	2	R16	18	4	8	1	Final	35	0	0	0	DNQ	0	71
Olimpia	3	2	5	QF	20	2	2	2	GS	11	5	2	3	QF	26	0	0	0	DNQ	0	57

Matilda Maniac (talk) 01:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm totally on board with the idea of only showing a maximum of teams. Also for future editions of this tournament, I would always use the number of slots that are still available for the best-ranked clubs (not yet qualified as champions) in the respective confederation. As it is shown in the table above for CONMEBOL (equivalent to https://inside.fifa.com/en/fifa-rankings/mundial-de-clubes: marked in orange Currently qualified clubs).Miria~01 (talk) 14:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Yesterday Fifa has published that River Plate will be safe qualified if they win the next game because they get 3 Points for the win and another 3 for reaching next round means totally 6 points to the 76 = 82 Points and connot be overhauled.

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/de/tournaments/mens/mundial-de-clubes/usa-2025/articles/mundial-de-clubes-2025-river-plate Eschmer71 (talk) 17:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

@Eschmer71 what's the scenarios now after draw ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 04:02, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@RIP B1058: You already have a section on your own talk page in discussion with @Eschmer71: where you are discussing this competition. That is a far better place to chat about scenarios and speculations than here. Note again that Wikipedia talk pages are not a forum for the competition, but a forum for improving the article. WP:NOTFORUM which is mentioned at the very beginning of the talk page. Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

That section just started an hour ago ‍—🪦NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 06:03, 8 May 2024 (UTC)