Talk:Axolotl

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Lake Chalco & Mudpuppies[edit]

According to various internet sources (including Wikipedia itself), Lake Chalco no longer exists . "Starting during the Aztec era and continuing into 20th century, efforts were made to drain Lake Chalco and her sister lakes in order to avoid periodic flooding and to provide for expansion. The only of these lakes still in existence is a diminished Lake Xochimilco." Furthermore, since the axolotl is an endangered species native only to Lake Chalco and Lake Xochimilco, I see it somewhat prudent to enter this information into the article on axolotls.

Also, why is the [Mudpuppy] habitat described under Axolotl Habitat? Call me crazy, but it seems a bit nonrelevent. I'll remove this information and place a note about mudpuppies near the article's begining. Hope noone minds too terribly much, but in my opinion it cleans the article up.

I haven't editted on Wikipedia before, so feel free to improve my update. Tlasco Rydrion 23:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation and photos[edit]

How do you pronounce 'axolotl'? Also, does anyone have any photographs of a fully metamorphosed ('adult') axolotl that they could add to the article? 217.34.39.123 09:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I think it's pronounced "axle-ottle". --Candy-Panda 09:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes, and I believe it was Groucho Marx who said "I'd rather have an axolotl in front of me than a frontal lobotomy". Or something like that. --CliffC 12:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I believe it's a nahuat (an aztec language) and the 'x' was used by the spanish to represent a 'sh' sound, as in 'shield'. If this is so then the first bit would be pronounced "ash-olottle".
Bingo, a quick search turns up this <http://www.kent.ac.uk/anthropology/dice/research/azaxs/english/project/glossary.htm>
"The word is Náhuatl (the language spoken by the Aztecs) and is properly pronounced "ashólotl".
I also believe that the 'tl' is a representation of a sound familiar in Welsh, where it is written 'LL' and pronounced as a kind of aspirated, hissy letter L.
It would be much better if a Nahuatl speaker could comment though.
jan Water pepper (talk) 23:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Um... yah. But we don't speak Classical Nahuatl last time I checked, we speak English. Here are the correct pronunciations to add (article currently locked). Click "Edit" for this comment to cut-and-paste the actual source code with links into article:

(IPA US: [ˈæk.səˌlɑ.dəl] UK: [ˈak.səˌlɒ.təl]) Nahuatl: /aːʃoːloːtɬ/)

75.36.151.138 (talk) 21:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)englishspeaker

Who's "we" ? The creature's name is Nahuatl, so you speak Nahuatl when you name the animal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.11.36.169 (talk) 15:45, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Critically endangered???[edit]

Are axolotls really critically endangered? Because if they were I don't think our highschool science class would be allowed to have one as a pet. I mean seriously... --Candy-Panda 07:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

As of recently, I believe, surveys have been unable to find any living in the wild at all. They're still commonly bred in captivity, though. Aaronstj 19:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
What we see in captivity is the result of more than 100 years of selective breeding. Indeed, most of the axolotls available for use in high school laboratories are albino or carry albinism. This gene was "artificially" introduced into the axolotl by scientific experiments carried out by Professor Humphrey in the mid 20th century using an albino tiger salamander. This alone makes the Axolotl as we know it quite a distinct organism to the original wild species found in Xochimilco. -John Clare of axolotl.org, Mavortium 00:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In addition, recent studies have shown that the "genes" (actually alleles) associated with neoteny are now fixed and linked in captive populations (meaning nearly every individual has all the neoteny genes). The genes are not linked wild axolotls - allowing more transformation and meaning that individuals may have all, some, or none of the associated genes. This is due to transformed individuals being removed from the captive breeding stocks for many generations, causing artificial selection for neoteny. LaurenCole 16:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
That's an excellent example of selective breeding. John Clare 19:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
"Endangered" means status in the wild -- not zoos, domestication, etc.

Aquarium keeping[edit]

Can somebody tell me what the ideal pH for axolotls are? I think that having the temperature up is good, but it's rather lacking in other areas (tankmates etc)

6.5-8PH, 7.3-7.6 is ideal. I have added this in the past but it has been deleted. Have re-added. -Sas

I do not think it is appropriate to simply remove an entire section that has been properly referenced just because someone doesn't agree with it. You can put in both sides of a dispute and let the reader choose to read all accounts and make their own decision. Citing an authority who bases their authority on a past authority who kept citing the same thing without any proper experimentation or research of their own is nothing more than circular reasoning. I maintain my position that there is no evidence for gravel of appropriate size causing impaction and counter evidence exists. Until someone does a proper double blind study of this issue both sides should be presented t the reader and let the reader decide on their own. Bjorklund21 (talk) 00:17, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

I am entirely satisfied with the new wording. Bjorklund21 (talk) 13:35, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't have a source of wiki quality to back this up, but I have an axolotl and did my research ages ago before I got her, and tank mates are a big red NO. Groups of adult axolotls are fine, juveniles can be cannibalistic but outgrow it, other species though? They'll likely either nibble the axolotl's gills, or become its dinner. Argenti Aertheri (talk) 00:49, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Metamorphosis[edit]

[1] 86.132.141.14 (talk) 20:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

References[edit]

I added a few references to start. The Ambystoma Genetic Stock Center at the University of Kentucky has excellent resources for this article and should be cited in the captive care and husbandry section.Enviropearson (talk) 16:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


Can the "this article doesn't cite sources" tag now be removed? Enviropearson (talk) 16:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Ajolote?[edit]

If this is an ajolote, then what is this burrowing creature?[2] I think it's a Mexican Mole Lizard? Should ajolote be a disambig? -- Kendrick7talk 05:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've gone ahead and disambiguated this. -- Kendrick7talk 02:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Interesting facts[edit]

axolotl , a salamander , Siredon mexicanum, found in certain lakes in the region of Mexico City, which reaches reproductive maturity without losing its larval characteristics. This phenomenon is called neoteny; in salamanders it is apparently caused by certain environmental conditions, particularly a low level of iodine in the water, which affect the functioning of the thyroid gland. Axolotls are permanently aquatic, never undergoing the metamorphosis to a terrestrial form characteristic of amphibians. They grow larger than ordinary larval salamanders and develop sexually, but they retain external gills and a well-developed tail. The axolotl was not recognized as a salamander until 1865, when several specimens at the Jardin des Plantes in Paris suddenly underwent metamorphosis. After some experimentation it was discovered that when their pools were dried up most of the animals changed into the adult form. Axolotls will also mature normally if fed thyroid gland extract. The related North American tiger salamander, Abystoma tigrinum, often exhibits neoteny in the Rocky Mts., where the iodine content of the water is low. The axolotl has a broad head and bushy gills; its skin is a black-speckled dark brown. It may grow as long as 13 in. (33 cm). In Mexico City, axolotls are sometimes cooked and eaten as delicacies. They are classified in the phylum Chordata , subphylum Vertebrata, class Amphibia, order Urodela, family Abystomidae.

by Axystar 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axystar (talkcontribs) 12:03, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

@Axystar: Interesting indeed. And although not credited, it sure looks like a direct quote from some text; in other words, plagiarism. --Thnidu (talk) 16:44, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Unprotection?[edit]

Can this article and talk page be unprotected now so that unregistered users can edit and make comments? We can quickly restore protection if necessary. --TS 20:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon (241–260) indicates that the Pokemon-related meme is still going strong in the wider internet(..?). I agree that permanent semi-protection is suboptimal, though. This article gets around a thousand pageviews per day, but does not see high editing traffic or a high number of contributions from many individuals. If at least two or three other regular editors also have this watchlisted, it might be worth testing the waters. Starting with just the talkpage for a week or two might be best. WP:RFPP is just around the corner if it flares up again. - 2/0 (cont.) 21:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
I've unprotected the talk page; I'm not so keen on the actual article itself however. -Jeremy (v^_^v Tear him for his bad verses!) 05:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

cock meat sandwiches taste like axolotls On the contrary to the Wooper comment, the Axolotl is more commonly known for its similarities to the Pokémon "Mudkip", which is an internet meme. 3mptylord (talk) 12:50, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Which is why this page gets semiprotected for long times because people trying to force the meme invariably come here as well to add it. -Jeremy (v^_^v Tear him for his bad verses!) 19:50, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

in literature[edit]

Why no mention of Julio Cortazar and Rene Daumal? 70.8.227.195 (talk) 18:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)Ray

References[edit]

The link to yahoo news does not work. It says there is no such article when you click on it. Something has to be done about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.179.226 (talk) 22:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

In contemporary fiction[edit]

Can someone please add something about Dr. Shrunk from Animal Crossing series being an Axolotl? 82.38.96.120 (talk) 21:06, 21 February 2010 (UTC) I agree with this, especially with how popular New Leaf was. CPPJive (talk) 00:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

(Well, I don't really like this new "protection" feature, because I've already contributed many times... Anyways:) Hungarian writer Antal Szerb also mentions Axolotl in his novel, The Pendragon Legend (1934, English translation 2006)).

"Roscoe’s unlikely will may account for the Earl’s interest in tropical diseases, but how to account for the tanks of mutant axolotls in the Earl’s lab? If, like Bátky, you’re up on mystical lore, then you’d know the significance of these salamanders to the Rosicrucians. (We’re talking real Rosicrucians here, the occult philosophers who may have influenced Spenser and Shakespeare, not the American copycats who used to peddle their books in magazine ads.) And from there it’s just another step to the resurrection of the Earl’s ancestor, Assaf Pendragon, and a sacrifice to the “Great Adept,” if you play your mystical cards right." http://www.forbes.com/2007/10/30/hungarian-horror-halloween-cz_rh_1031pedragon.html Arpadapo (talk) 21:08, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 99.129.142.52, 20 April 2010[edit]

{{editsemiprotected}} I looked up Axolotl because I think they are simply amazing. I noticed that there is a section on their page noting references in contemporary fiction, so I thought I might make a suggestion. One of my favorite bands from the nineties recorded a song called "Afternoon with the Axolotls" on there final album. It is my favorite song on the album and I don't know how many people would find this interesting, but Hum (the band) was quite popular back then. I just thought it would be a nice addition to the page.

Here is a link to the album's page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downward_Is_Heavenward

Also, Julio Cortazar wrote a famous short story titled "Axolotls", about a man who becomes obsessed with axolotls and eventually becomes one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.119.144.210 (talk) 00:29, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

If this is in any way an inappropriate request, I do apologize!  :) I've never used this part of Wikipedia. Thanks for taking your time to review my suggestion and thanks for providing such a valuable resource! 99.129.142.52 (talk) 16:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks fine to me - that section is not overburdened at present. Thanks for the tip. - 2/0 (cont.) 18:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Vilem Laufberger[edit]

All English sources endlessly repeat "Vilem Laufberger of Germany." Looks incorrect to me - Lauberger was Czech, and at the time of the axolotl research was a medical student at the Charles University in Prague. Will correct unless someone comes up with better info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by V.B. (talkcontribs) 02:39, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Poetic sounding sentance[edit]

Is it just me or does this more poetic than fitting an encyclopedia: "Lake Xochimilco remains a diminished glimpse of its former self" Can someone find better wording? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aether22 (talkcontribs) 21:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC) um I think it means it looks crap — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.68.167.206 (talk) 09:11, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Request for removal of misleading photographs[edit]

As a hobbyist with axolotls, I am EXTREMELY concerned about the photographs being used on this page depicting axolotls on gravel. Having very nearly lost one of mine due to impaction after their being on gravel less than a week, the thought that someone may come along, see this page and believe it is an acceptable base for an axolotl tank. There are numerous cases of impaction documented in the axolotl forums of caudata.org. I therefore request that those pictures are removed immediately, and that appropriate images are sourced from a reputable source such as caudata.org or axolotl.org as soon as possible. As to two animals in the photograph, I sincerely hope that thwy were among the few lucky ones. However, I strongly doubt it. Minniechild (talk) 01:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I approve of this change. Albinistic specimens are also not representative of the species, and result in misled traffic (see Mudkipz) which vandalize the article. StevePrutz (talk) 17:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Thirded. 98.24.14.97 (talk) 07:36, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Whether people like to believe it or not the photograph is real and represents a real result. he axolotl in question lived many years with gravel regularly passing it. The picture should not be removed just because someone dislikes it. It is properly references to a peer reviewed scientific article approved by an animal care committee and includes an author who is an expert on axolotl care. At best both arguments should be presented not just one removed entirely, especially one well referenced. Bjorklund21 (talk) 23:50, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I have no problem with the inclusion of the photograph. The fact that axolotls ingest gravel (and really, whatever available objects they are capable of swallowing) is not contested. However, I disagree with the photo being used as evidence to imply that aquarium gravel is a safe substrate for axolotls. The source for the photo is a paper that uses the axolotl to compare different imaging methods, and (though I don't have access to the full text) seems to present the theory that they are seeking gastroliths as an aside. The fact that the university of Manitoba colony did not have any fatalities due to gut impaction is not enough evidence to state there is no risk. The new source that you provided explaining this seems to be a blog post (written by Natalie Gordon, née Bjorklund...which is you, correct?), which contradicts the published, peer-reviewed care guides previously provided. Interestingly, another published care guide co-authored by Ms. Bjorklund states "Smaller pebbles or gravel may be ingested by axolotls, especially if they are underfed. Although they regurgitate the gravel eventually, it's easier to avoid the problem." [1]
The consensus of published literature both in the scientific and hobbyist communities is quite clear in recommending against the use of gravel. While the gastrolith theory may in fact be true, wikipedia is not the place to hash this out. See WP:NOR and WP:FRINGE. I have edited the section to include this theory but to correct the undue weight it was being given.
Another note - citing your own work as a source is allowed, but must not be used with undue emphasis (see WP:SELFCITE), especially when using a self-published source (see WP:SELFPUB). I am interested in further information on this subject, and will continue to research sources for both the mainstream recommendation and your gastrolith idea. The best source would be a veterinary-focused paper with analysis of relevent necropsy performed. I would love to discuss further with you also, since you seem to have extensive experience in the field. For example, I would like to read your paper "Small is beautiful: economical axolotl colony maintenance with natural spawnings as if axolotls mattered" but I cannot find a copy online, also, do you know if Susan Duhon's work is available online? Niado (talk) 03:58, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
I concur that the photograph should not be removed, but properly sourced and presented with accompanying information at proper weight. In other words, just about the state we have now, with Niado's condensing of Bjorklund21's over-long paragraph about their own work. Strikes me as well balanced at this point.-- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:59, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
I very much like the latest edit because it is balanced and fair. I over responded after the complete removal of my original addition mostly because I have a trollish type individual following me around all over social media making nasty accusations and misrepresentations about my work and my character and insisting on a hysterical and unwarranted "Keeping your animals on gravel means they will die! This woman hates axolotls and is killing them!" attitude. I should not have let my personal reactions reflect the edit and for that I thank the other editors. The new edit allows people to review everything for themselves in a rational fashion and make their own decision and it gives it proper weight. Thank you!Bjorklund21 (talk) 17:13, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Bjorklund, Natalie K., and Duhon, Susan T. The Mexican Axolotl as a Pet and a Laboratory Animal

One Piece[edit]

An axolotl Zoan Devil Fruit makes an appearance, turning the user into an axolotl or a hybrid. Caesar Clown's pet Smiley 'ate' the fruit (or rather was a toxic substance infused with its ability). It is therefore a giant poisonous axolotl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.181.44 (talk) 18:14, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Mudkip[edit]

I believe the Axolotl was not the basis for Mudkip, but for Wooper (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Otozwi9EWew/TqjARZceHwI/AAAAAAAAGkc/iAWJcKtfNec/s1600/wooper-totally-looks-like-axolotl.jpg) Mudkip however resembles a MUDsKIPper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periophthalmus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.181.94.141 (talk) 14:38, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect / Misleading Article - not found natively in only Mexico[edit]

Axolotls are also found natively (not introduced) in some lakes in the Western U.S. Axolotl Lakes in SW Montana are named for these creatures. Perhaps ironically, the Shosohone and Bannock peoples native to this part of MT speak Uto-Aztecan languages related to Nahuatl (Aztec), the from which of course the word axolotl is from. However, the 'edit' option for this page has been disabled, likely due to the bickering over pronunciation of the name and aquarium specifications, etc. ... trivial things, while a basic piece of information about the animal is neglected and cannot be changed. These animals are very unique but they are NOT only from Mexico. There are also lakes in the Rocky Mountains which contain them. Any source online will verify this. In fact the Merriam Webster Dictionary (arguably not the best dictionary, but it functions) definition of the word states that it is a non-metamorphosing salamander native to lakes in central Mexico and parts of the Western U.S. Amen. This is correct and this sorry incomplete article needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.17.25 (talk) 16:23, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, this should be added. 98.24.14.97 (talk) 07:00, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
the "axolotls" that you mention are not Ambystoma mexicanum, they are a population of tiger salamander (a closely related species) that sometimes remains neotonic. Niado (talk) 04:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Are they blind?[edit]

It says they hunt by smell. Obviously they have eyes, but are they functional?Superbuttons (talk) 20:52, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2014[edit]

I'd like to add citations to the last paragraph in the Habitat and Ecology section of the article, specifically one that supports the description of axolotl feeding behavior.

Wainwright, P. C., et al. (1989). "Evolution of motor patterns: aquatic feeding in salamanders and ray-finned fishes." Brain, behavior and evolution 34(6): 329-341.

AMANITA-BISPORIGERA (talk) 17:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Mz7 (talk) 21:00, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2014[edit]

The 4th paragraph states that the Axolotl is extinct in the wild, however the conservation status of the Axolotl is shown to be critically endangered, not extinct in the wild. These separate statements seem to contradict each other. Maybe one of these needs to be changed. 94.2.119.236 (talk) 17:37, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Unfortunately there's a bit of a terminology issue there. That paragraph does seem to imply extinction in the wild, but a species is not considered to be "Extinct in the Wild" until it has been designated as such on the IUCN redlist. Somebody's study that they didn't find any is probably worth including in the article, but does not change the overall conservation status of the Axolotl. --ElHef (Meep?) 18:02, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2014[edit]

Axolotls were also sold as food in Mexican markets and were a staple in the Aztec diet. for this line, use http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/world/americas/struggle-of-axolotls-mexicos-mythical-salamander.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 as a citation. 76.99.201.202 (talk) 02:48, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 17:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Vilem Laufberger[edit]

Prof. Laufberger was not of Germany, he was probably the most influential Czech physiologist of 20th century, being even dean of Masaryk University. Apart from his experiments with Axotls being the the first researcher to izolate Insuline and He also introduced and isolated Ferritin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carpet-diver (talkcontribs) 17:53, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Suggest reversion of vandalism by registered user 03:01, 20 July 2015‎ DerekWinters (21,606 bytes) (0)‎[edit]

I'd do it myself, with a single click, but for the semi-protection...

Gravel Impaction[edit]

In the article, a user removed information talking about gravel impaction being common among axolotls raised on gravel substrate, and instead replaced it with information that is clearly incorrect. Linked reference sources say absolutely nothing about swallowed gravel being healthy for axolotls, and several axolotl owners have mentioned losing axolotls to impaction. Furthermore, many more owners have kept their pets off of gravel and have had healthy axolotls live out long, full lives.

Additionally, axolotls in the wild live in lakes with silt bottoms, which should be an obvious clue to the fact that swallowing gravel would not be considered healthy for them.

This information needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Captaincapn (talkcontribs) 22:41, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2015[edit]

{{edit semi-protected}}

add an additional website link http://www.manchester-axolotls.co.uk

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2016[edit]

The person who stated axolotls swallow gravel to help balance in the water did not use any real scientific ideas for axolotls. He used one stating tadpoles do, but nothing about axolotls. There is stronger evidence pointing to gravel killing axolotls that helping them float in water. If you don't believe me, look at all of these articles showing why you should never keep an axolotl on gravel: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/substrate1.shtml http://www.caudata.org/cc/faq/FAQhou.shtml Cliygh and Mia (talk) 06:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. clpo13(talk) 07:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Temperature clarification[edit]

I have clarified the temperature ranges for which a captive axolotl should be kept. --Macbookair3140 23:57, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Cheers. And here I thought User:Cliygh and Mia had finally made ONE well-sourced addition :/ -- Elmidae (talk) 08:02, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2016[edit]

change | status = PEW to | status = EW

Axolotls are extinct in the wild, none been found since 2012

A01020304uk (talk) 02:14, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: IUCN doesn't say EW, only CR. [3] Stickee (talk) 04:19, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2016[edit]


please remove "This animal was x-rayed several times as part of a research project over a period of two years. It was a normal healthy adult (26.3cm 159.5 gm) at the beginning of the project and lived several more years after the project ended. Axolotls seek out gravel to swallow, presumably as gastroliths." Please also remove "There are persistent statements in pet care literature that axolotls cannot be kept on gravel because gravel causes fatal digestive impaction. There is no evidence to support this myth and counter evidence that normal healthy axolotls regularly ingest gravel and pass it without any negative consequences. The axolotl, like many amphibians, may be deliberately ingesting gravel to act as a gastrolith providing buoyancy control and aiding digestion, preventing impaction, rather than causing it. Axolotls deprived of appropriately sized gravel will ingest anything else they can find while attempting to satisfy their instinctive need for gastroliths and this behaviour, combined with lack of appropriate gastroliths, may be a cause, among others, of fatal impaction."

The sources provided for both statements do not support such a claim and almost every vet will agree that there is absolutely no cause to claim axolotls use gastroliths. I have spoken to axolotl rescue worker Jude Davies, who has worked with axolotls over 30 years who has had vets need to remove gravel and stones from impacted axolotls. There are no scientists who can support the gastrolith theory on record either, and the ambystoma genetic stock center has also warned of axolotls not being kept on gravel because it causes health risks. Here are some websites which further support what I have said, http://www.ambystoma.org/education/guide-to-axolotl-husbandry, http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-beginner-newt-salamander-axolotl-help-topics/f48-axolotls-ambystoma-mexicanum/f58-sick-axolotl/63145-vets-please-help-we-think-axolotl-swallowed-gravel.html, http://sillyaxolotls.wixsite.com/sillyaxolotls/treating-illness, http://all-about-axolotls.blogspot.com/p/axolotl-tank-set-up.html, http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Care-Sheets/Frogs-Amphibians/Axolotl/, http://sillyaxolotls.wixsite.com/sillyaxolotls/axolotl-caresheet. Julesaskalotl (talk) 05:13, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

I admit that to me this increasingly looks like a case for presenting arguments for both sides, instead of the categorical conclusion currently in the article. The sources cited at this point do not support the strong statement that gravel is harmless and that the opposite view is a "myth"; Kulbisky et al. is circumstantial evidence, and Wings and Rondeau et al. do not treat axolotls in particular (the former is about gastroliths in general and the latter about anurans). The sources mentioned by Julesaskalotl may not be scientific articles, but they definitely show that the issue is not as clear-cut as presented at this point. I suggest describing this issue as not being conclusively settled, and presenting a summary and sources for either interpretation. (added ref to xray image, btw) -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The current state of axolotl care is that you must not put them on gravel because they will ingest it and die. This started many years ago because one person decided an animal that died did so because of an impaction in the gut. At necropsy the animal had a piece of gravel in its gut and it was dead. This one result was uncritically published with no proof whatsoever that the animal actually died of gut impaction. The result is that ever single axolotl care book since that time always refers back to the "standard" which is you don't keep them on gravel. The other result is if you try to present any evidence other than the unproven standard a few pet keepers always come forward hysterically claiming that anyway who puts the axolotls on gravel is cruel and out to kill the axolotls and then follows up with some anecdotal evidence of someone who knew someone whose axolotl died from a gut impaction. The same quoted "standard" also was once that axolotls need to be kept in individual goldfish bowls not big enough to allow them to stretch out. This is no longer the standard of care and in fact our animal care committee agreed with us that keeping the animals in bare individual fish bowls with no objects of any kind constituted cruelty. Standards change. The Kubilinsky article is a publication that had a section in it with animals showing gravel present for years in normal healthy animals who actively sought, swallowed and passed gravel. The gastrolith article is not directly related to axolotls but does explain how and why gastroliths are important to normal health in animals that use them for ballast and digestion and is therefore supportive of the Kubilinsky result. Taken together it shows the notion that the axolotls are deliberately ingesting gravel as gastroliths. Now our colony at the University of Manitoba used gravel with our animals for years and we never had a single animal die of impaction. We did necropsies with every death and not once did we find a gut impaction. We also found they sought out specific sizes. We also found over many years the animals actively sought out gravel and when they couldn't find the right sized stuff they swallowed whatever they could find. It is my opinion that the multiple reports of gut impaction are due to three causes 1) misidentification of any animal that is sick or dies as having a gut impaction simply because on necropsy there was something in the gut 2) axolotls unable to satisfy their natural urge to eat gravel ingest things they should not and getting an impaction from eating rocks, sand and aquarium filter parts that are too big or have sharp edges and getting a gut impaction. 3) not having gastroliths, their gut does not function properly. Therefore promoting this myth (and it is a myth because it has no basis in any properly conducted study) is probably harming animals and killing them. People need to know alternatives and make their own responsible decisions. I am however satisfied with not using the term myth and presenting both sides and letting people choose.

This is fixed. Whomever originally put the information indicating that gravel-impaction is a "myth" seems to be jumping to conclusions based on tangentially-related research. Current consensus in husbandry and scientific literature is that gravel impaction causes deaths. I have provided sources that reflect this. Niado (talk) 14:06, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Those are good sources. Tidied up a bit to avoid direct quotes.-- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:53, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Bjorklund21, you do NOT remove other people's comments from talk pages this way. Please don't try this again.-- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:53, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

I apologize for removing a quote. It was completely unintentional on my part. ````

Cheers :) -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:00, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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pronunciation of axolotl[edit]

Last semester a student worked on a project with a native speaker of Nahuatl to record pronunciations of Nahuatl-derived words, people and place names. I added his pronunciation of axolotl with the Template:Pronunciation inline but I realize it could be better... just havent found a way to do it if the IPA template is not yet on the article.Thelmadatter (talk) 02:49, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit request[edit]

I found a citation for the following sentence:

The genes responsible for neoteny in laboratory animals may have been identified; however, they are not linked in wild populations, suggesting artificial selection is the cause of complete neoteny in laboratory and pet axolotls.[citation needed]

Citation: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123859792000083?np=y


Within the genetic background of the domesticated stock, which has undergone strong artificial selection for paedomorphosis, the penetrance of met1 is greater, and this results in a higher proportion of paedomorphic individuals in hybrid crosses ( Voss & Smith, 2005).

Original cited source: S.R. Voss, J.J. Smith Evolution of salamander life cycles: A major effect QTL contributes to both continuous and discrete variation for metamorphic timing Genetics, 170 (2005), pp. 275–281


Another suggested change, the following sentence seems to disagree with several sources.

A four-month-long search in 2013 turned up no surviving individuals in the wild. Previous surveys in 1998, 2003 and 2008 had found 6,000, 1,000 and 100 axolotls per square kilometer in its Lake Xochimilco habitat, respectively.[9]

While reference 9 may suggest 0 were sighted, at least two other sources suggest a few have been seen in 2014. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/axolotl-found-in-mexico-city-lake-after-scientists-feared-it-only-survived-in-captivity-9148775.html

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/15/mystical-amphibian-venerated-by-aztecs-nears-extinction.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.185.18.207 (talk) 20:28, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Axolotl as food[edit]

A talk at the Oxford Symposium on Food and Cookery addressed the use of axolotl as a pre-conquest and valued food. The page is semi-protected so I'll simply drop the link here: Three talks at 2016 Oxford Symposium on food and cookery - third is on axolotl as dish 162.119.232.105 (talk) 00:34, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

The Veils[edit]

https://genius.com/The-veils-axolotl-lyrics

Would you want The Veils song Axolotl which features in Twin Peaks in your

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl#In_popular_culture

section?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0IBpUgbTTA

If so do whatever you wish to do with it... :-)

EDLIS Café 09:46, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2018[edit]

i would like to add an axolotl care section to your article as i own and recently have bred axolotls and brought up baby axolotls. i would be greatfull if you replied. thanks for reading:) Eatsfood (talk) 18:02, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

That may be useful. You will need to put here exactlky what you want to add to the page so that it can be considered. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 18:07, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Request to add to the "In Popular Culture" Section[edit]

1. The Pokemon Mudkip and Wooper both seem to have axolotl-like traits, namely the gills.

2. In the 2012 cartoon Gravity Falls, the Axolotl is referenced. In Season 2, Episode 20 (Weirdmaggedon 3: Take Back the Falls) when the main villain Bill Cipher dies and if the footage is reversed, he spells out Axolotl. Also, in the Journal 3 book for the show says that the residents of the Chaos Dimension worship the Axolotl.

3. In the 2014 cartoon Bojack Horseman, there is a character named Yolanda Buenaventura, who is an axolotl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Longanimals (talkcontribs) 16:14, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

"In Popular Culture" sections should be a discussion of how the topic is viewed in popular culture, and not be a laundry list of obscure(d) references and non-notable mentions. Nor should "In Popular culture" sections include mentions that require original research, especially since there are other salamanders with feathery gills.--Mr Fink (talk) 16:40, 8 June 2018 (UTC)