Talk:Babes in Toyland (band)

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Untitled[edit]

I changed the bit about "Bruise Violet" being a "wholesale character assassination" of Courtney Love, for reasons of NPOV. The song certainly doesn't contain any direct references to specific flaws. Tuf-Kat

I wanted to point out that Hole's "Live Through This" LP opens with a song called "Violet". Since according to the current wiki page, 'Bjelland has denied [the song being an attack on Courtney], saying instead that "Violet" was the name of a muse to both her and Courtney' it stands to reason that this is indeed the same Violet person. Both lyrics talk about "stars", etc.

In the interest of clarity

Eagle (talk) (desk) 19:19, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There's no page for Katastrophy Wife, and there probably shouldn't be--it seems very much a Bjelland project and should be discussed on her page.

I'm going to change the B'jellands to Bjellands--if someone has evidence that B'jelland really is the more official spelling, please cite it. Nareek 16:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Riot Grrrl?[edit]

I think the characterization in the opening paragraph of Babes in Toyland as a "riot grrrl" band is inaccurate. While they were definitely an inspiration for bands in the Riot Grrrl movement, they existed before and during the movement, but never played any part in it.

Former Members[edit]

Can anyone find solid references that Maggie Dunn of We've Got a Fuzzbox and We're Gonna Use It ever played with Babes in Toyland? There are some non-encylopedic sites that claim she was in the band in late 2001. Another person added to the ex-member list who seems to have no support for being there is Jose Camarillo, so I'm removing him.--Larrybob (talk) 20:28, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Facebook Page[edit]

Just to let everyone know that this page is showing up with the title "House" on the facebook version of the Wikipedia page (see at http://www.facebook.com/pages/House/103092843063891). This seems to be due to the redirecting of the page at House_(Babes_in_Toyland_song). Am not sure how to fix this.Vibracobra23 (talk) 20:38, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

grunge[edit]

i'm adding grunge to the info box since this band's mentioned as a prominent non seattle grunge group in the grunge article — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 09:00, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Courtney Love[edit]

I edited down the section on Courtney Love's involvement. Parts of it appeared non-encyclopedic and relying on rumour. The accusation by the band that stole money is unsubstantiated and can be presented as a quote as this is the band's opinion. Karst (talk) 13:47, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Balance[edit]

Maintainers? This sentence:

Veteran critic Richie Unterberger noted that Babes in Toyland were "considered something of a joke band even within the underground"

is unfortunate. It accurately reflects the source, but Unterberger doesn't provide any support for that statement, and he appears to take great offense at the band. It would be great if that statement could be balanced with an opposing viewpoint. The Kathleen Hanna quote that follows kind of does that, but it would fit better in the preceding paragraph, referring as it does to the riot grrl movement. Dementia13 (talk)

I agree. Putting the quote in the lead seems too acerbic and would fit better within the text as criticism, which is why I put the Kathleen Hanna quote in the lead, to add balance. Perhaps both could be moved to within the article. I could find no other source for Unterberger's statement. Dubyavee (talk) 03:17, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I know there are fans of the band here (myself included) but you just cannot slag Unterberger. 82.132.228.138 (talk) 10:47, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Things like this do NOT belong in the introduction. DCEvoCE (talk) 14:02, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Unfortunately I do not have Michele Leon's book, I think she talks about the sexism surrounding their appearance on the scene and Unterberger clearly just talked to one of those sexist critics and very sloppily summed up the band with that one source. It does need to be moved out of the intro and discussed in context. Dubyavee (talk) 20:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

DCEvoCE, Dubyavee: I find the inclusion of Unterberger's claim in the article kind of unnecessary in the first place—I also don't quite know why Kathleen Hanna's opinion on the band's legacy is worth including either. These two sentiments are all that make up the "Reception" section of the article (which is where these ×quotes appear to have been relocated), and I frankly think that section is problematic to begin with, as it's difficult to collate the "reception" of a band—it's far too varied and impossible to calculate, especially when they had a career that spanned two decades. I'm not sure how you could provide an adequate summary of something like this. If Unterberger's passive, vague writing-off of the group and Hanna's "worry" that they're being forgotten are all we can include here, I'd say it's better of not even being part of the article at all. --Drown Soda (talk) 01:07, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]