Talk:Blitzkid

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my case for notability/Wikipedia inclusion[edit]

I feel like a lawyer making his closing argument, haha. OK, I am going to address the "guidelines for notability for music related topics" with respect to my Blitzkid draft.

1. "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself." I have over 30 individual sources cited. Among the most clearly reliable are: Bluefield Daily Telegraph, Huffington Post, Allmusic, Alternative Press, Dayton City Paper, Dallas Observer, Nashville Scene. I believe many or most of the other sources to be reliable with respect to reporting on underground music. These individual writers are among the "experts" on the scene. I tried not to rely on anything that was clearly a blog. I did not take any significant portions of the article from self-published stuff from Blitzkid or their labels, but rather from independent reporters of a notable "horror punk" band. Most of the sources were "non-trivial"; on the other hand, some merely verified information (such as a concert or a record label), but I cited these if I felt the fact of the concert or record label helped demonstrate Blitzkid's notability.

Criteria 2 and 3 do not apply to the article.

4. "Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country." Criterion 4 very much applies. I included 3 reliable sources that provided non-trivial coverage of Blitzkid's tour with Face to Face and Strung Out. Although third on a bill of 4, BK were not a local opener but a full touring partner. All 3 sources provided non-trivial coverage of Blitzkid specifically, especially two of those sources. I also noted many significant international dates.

5. Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable). Blitzkid has recorded multiple albums for Antidote Records, as my article points out. This indie label has a Wikipedia article, as do at least 12 artists signed to the label. Additionally, their 2011 "Apparitional" LP was released on Century Media/EMI, as the AllMusic link demonstrates.

6. Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.[note 6] This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses. Argyle Goolsby, in addition to Blitzkid, served time in Gorgeous Frankenstein and The Undead, each a band led by an ex-guitarist of The Misfits (at least one of my sources puts forth The Misfits and Blitzkid as the 2 most noteable horror punk bands; my article shows that Goolsby is associated with both).

7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability. Hopefully you see that my article very much makes a referenced case that Blitzkid are a significant horror punk band, one of the 'most prominent representatives of the style' and all that, from the words of knowledgeable folks from within said scene. I will point out that there is a lot of precedent on Wikipedia for the notability of the scene; the genre has an article, as do 30 or more bands who perform the style that have links in that article. Compare my article to a random selection of those (don't flag those other ones, include this one! Come on, precedent! Told you this was like being a lawyer). I am dumbfounded that BK did not have a current English Wikipedia article at the time I started this one.

Criteria 8 and 9 do not apply to the article.

10. "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Read WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E for further clarifications)" I include a reference to the fact that BK do the theme song to"Cannibal Flesh Riot", a film by notable figure Gris Grimly. If you follow the hyperlink to his Wikipedia page, you will find the film included on the filmography there. I also included an extensive discography of compilations the band appeared on. I haven't yet researched whether any of those CDs have Wikipedia pages.

11 and 12 do not apply to the article.

I rest my case, not upon one criteria, but the cumulative weight of the above. Now it's up to you, "jury"!

Keithramone33 (talk) 05:04, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Keithramone33

history of band/flow of article[edit]

If the article gets approved (crosses fingers) I need some help from Blitzkid knowledgable editors out there to flesh out the history section, as it currently has gaps. It needs some info about recording each album and touring behind them, the coming and going of peripheral members, Blitzkid's music in horror movies, and stuff like that. I created some subsections to organize the stuff I wanted to include to establish their noteworthiness, but that left gaps in the more narrative section. Keithramone33 (talk)Keithramone33

YouTube[edit]

(Note: The discussion below makes reference to deleted links to YouTube, and to my writing concerning my rationale for said links that appeared on this page; I have since deleted that writing but am leaving the below discussion for now) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keithramone33 (talkcontribs) 04:53, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

@Keithramone33:, I'm quite impressed with what you have been trying to do here and I do appreciate that for underground music you often cannot rely on mainstream sources. My major concern is the YouTube stuff that you mention above and the point of concern is copyright issues. We do not link to material on other sites where that material is under copyright and the copyright has been infringed by the uploader. This, alas, is common on YouTube and I rather think it applies to the promo videos etc.

Would much be lost if those infringing links were removed? It is a pretty serious concern because it is one of the few things for which Wikipedia/the Wikimedia Foundation can be sued. - Sitush (talk) 17:48, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

@Sitush:That's me being stubborn and say "I need to demonstrate this fact!", even though I had the sense it wasn't a good thing to include according to Wikipedia protocols.

Thank you for your help and the compliment. I will follow your advice. For now I have deleted the paragraph that had those links; this exacerbates the problem I noted in the "history of band/flow of article" section above, but more importantly addresses your concern. Thanks to helpful experienced editors like you, I am learning. Keithramone33 (talk) 20:04, 5 August 2014 (UTC)Keithramone33

Well, better some article than no article, I guess. It's a compromise that we often have to make but we can live in hope that somewhere down the line a reliable source emerges that can be used. I'll take another read through it, have a think overnight and just maybe you'll find it in mainspace tomorrow ;) - Sitush (talk) 20:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
@Sitush:That would be great, because I sincerely believe these guys' work is notable. If anything else needs to be done, I will do my best! If any minor edits are necessary I wouldn't mind if you did it (I don't know how the whole process goes); otherwise, of course, I am happy to make needed improvements myself with your guidance. :)Keithramone33 (talk)Keithramone33
I'm cleaning up some stuff and trying to leave links to policies/guidelines so that you can read up on why I'm doing it. During that process, I've just removed this from Power Metal. That was the only use of the source, it was unnecessary and so it was removed; however, I can't read German and I wonder whether some other use for it could be found. It looks to be a more serious website than some of the Wordpress-hosted blogs etc that you've used. As a general rule, blogs are not great sources and although I know that this is one of those articles where exceptions might apply, the less of them that you use, the better. When this goes live (and it will), I'll be putting my neck on the block because people are going to turn up and start questioning whether the sources are really reliable etc. I'd rather blunt their axe before they get to use it. - Sitush (talk) 14:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip regarding the Power Metal article. I will wait till the article is in published form before I see where it can be useful. I came across the German sites because the band had a German Wikipedia page. I can't read the language either, but when I open the page, my browser offers to translate it for me...
Thank you again for your support of this work :)

Keithramone33 (talk) 17:24, 6 August 2014 (UTC)Keithramone33

I'm looking at the last deleted version of the article to see how that compares to this one. Basically, it doesn't! So I'm about to move this one into mainspace. Expect some people to challenge some of your sourcing. - Sitush (talk) 16:42, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Awesome. I never saw the old one (only the current German and Dutch articles), I don't know how to find it. Thank you so much for your help :) 18:34, 7 August 2014 (UTC)Keithramone33