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Talk:Bosnia (early medieval)

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838 AD ruler

[edit]

The article's lead has two sentences about the same information not mentioned in the other parts of the text;

  • The earliest description sets Bosnia as an independent entity in 838 AD, with a knez Ratimir as the country's ruler.[2][3]

Mrgić-Radojčić (2002) doesn't say anything about it on page 32 and near pages. What's more strange, it is presented as factual information while there was no 838 AD Bosnian ruler Bladin or Ratimir attested in any historical sources. Vego and Hadžijahić are referring to semi-mythological Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja (also known as Letopis Zagorske Sklavinije in Hadžijahić's source) from late 13th century. They partly identify Transmontana from the maps (Regnum Sclavorum 754 AD) with Bosnia and hence fictional rulers of fictional land which later became Transmontana became "Bosnian" inventing a fictional chronological order in 9th and 10th century according to which Ratimir ruled since around the beginning of 830s until 838 AD. Nothing of this can be confirmed in other historical sources, actually is contradicting them and has no historical value. Hadžijahić also extensively argues and concludes that the Croats since the 7th century settled the same Bosnia and that it was part of Croatia, never Bosnians were Serbs nor Bosnia was part of Serbia neither towns of Katera and Desnik were in Bosnia but Serbia because, according to him, Greek word "toward" is wrongly translated "in" and so on.

References

  1. ^ Vego 1982, p. 104"All the aforementioned historical sources on the use of the title "King of Rama" in the offices of Hungarian kings and feudal lords and some foreign diplomats in Europe must be proof of independent Bosnia in the period of Early Middle Ages, especially in the early 12th century, regardless of temporary conquests of Bosnia by neighboring and foreign rulers"
    Original source: Svi pomenuti historijski izvori o upotrebi naslova "kralj Rame" u kancelarijama ugarskih kraljeva i feudalaca i nekih stranih diplomata u Evropi, moraju se smatrati da označavaju samostalnu Bosnu već u ranom periodu srednjeg vijeka, naročito u početku 12. vijeka, bez obzira na privremeno osvajanje Bosne od strane susjednih i stranih vladara
  2. ^ a b Vego 1982, pp. 18, 25 "Knez Ratimir bi bio prvi poznati knez na području Bosne kao samostalne oblasti."
  3. ^ a b Hadžijahić, Muhamed (2004). Povijest Bosne u IX i X stoljeću (in Serbo-Croatian) (from the original University of Michigan ed.). Sarajevo: Preporod. pp. 14, 15, 32, 33. ISBN 9789958820274. Retrieved 28 December 2019. Vladavina Bladinova nasljednika Ratimira može se datirati u 838. godinu.
  4. ^ Mrgić-Radojčić, Jelena (2002). Donji Kraji: Krajina srednjovekovne Bosne (in Serbo-Croatian). Filozofski fakultet. p. 32. ISBN 978-86-80269-59-7. Retrieved 26 November 2019.

Miki Filigranski (talk) 06:25, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]