Talk:Boston accent/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

audio

Some feedback about this: I grew up in Waltham and our accent was distinct from other cities in the area. It might be useful to have audio of natives' accents.--24.7.68.160 17:59, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

X-SAMPA

This article is really interesting, but I suffer from a lack of X-SAMPA, and I'm not even sure if the characters are appearing correctly on my screen. So I want to second the suggestion to use sound, the most reliable representation of voice. 61.117.20.72 10:17, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

differences

Ya the boston accent for example is different from the worcestor accent, and where i'm from, concord, has no discernible similarities to other towns nearby, most people can actually say "harwich" instead of "hahwich". One thing i thought was missing was the addition of an R after words ending in EA, most notably "idea" most everyone in massachussets says "i have an idear" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.44.240 (talk) 01:34, 8 February 2005 (UTC)

I definately say "idear", and I don't think this is due to "over-correction" like the article says. This is something done in British English as well. I tend to place r's on the end of open vowels at the end of words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.18.158.104 (talk) 17:56, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

I think whoever said over-correction meant "hypercorrection", which is actually a linguistic term. It doesn't mean anything bad, it just tries to explain the origin of certain linguistic phenomena. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DelAster (talk • contribs) 06:27, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Before adding anything to this page, please remember Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Cite sources. That means everything you add has to be documented in published work, written by someone other than you; you should not add anecdotal information on the basis of your own observation of your own accent or that of the people around you. --Angr/_comhrá 19:26, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Idear is very common around Boston. I live close to Boston and my family has lived here for generations. Those who have Boston accents often add an R to words that end in vowels - not all words, though. It is not "over-correction" - it is part of the Boston accent.Alcinoe 08:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

To add, this phenomenon also extremely common in a Maine accent (which, as the article notes, is closely tied to a Bostonian one).--Aderack 00:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The accent extends through the state hell no I live in Wellesley and don't know a single person person in my town with a Boston accent. Pug6666 (talk) 20:55, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

New Babel Userbox for Boston accent

Chowdah

This user can speak with a Wicked Pissah Boston accent.

Karmafist 22:09, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Update

Ok, i've improved it a bit, now you can just put in {{chowdah}} to get the template, which you can see at {{chowdah}} — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karmafist (talk • contribs) 23:50, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Irritating aspects

Not to be a west coast dick, but could it be worth mentioning how irritating aspects (especially the nasal short-a) of this accent are to 'normal' american english speakers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.23.129.74 (talk) 21:39, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

No, it couldn't. That would be in violation of Wikipedia's neutral point-of-view policy. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 17:57, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Stating that something is "irritating" is a Point of View, (see WP:NPOV and does not belong here. And there is no such thing as "normal american english speakers." Crunch 17:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Besides, nasal short a is found all across America. You'd sound British to me if you didn't have it at least a little bit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DelAster (talk • contribs) 06:27, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

While I agree that the rest of the country is wrong to label the Boston accent as annoying. There are examples going back to at least the days of the revolution of people from other parts of the country calling it such (I would have to rummage around for references, but I know I have them on hand some where). However, this would need to be balanced with some inclusion in articles about the west coast. I've noted a delusion among west coast speakers that they speak English "correctly" and "with no accent". They also reserve tremendous anger and aggression for the Boston accent, which can only derive from envy of our physical and intellectual superiority. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 15:58, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Vocab

I'm from here, and I always thought "packee" was spelled "packy" and "statee" was spelled "statie". I don't know how widespread this is, but teenagers in the Metro Boston area sometimes refer to the act of using marihuana as "Getting Chiefed", with the word "Chiefed" pronounced "Chief" "ed", with the "ed" pronounced distinctly. This usage originates from the terms "joint" and "Joint Chiefs of Staff". --McDogm 16:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I've never seen the word "statee" spelled, to be honest. It's so colloquial, it's rarely written apparently. Karmafist 23:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I don't believe there are formal rules regarding spelling. Crunch 17:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

actaully getting chiefed was in reference to Robert Parish, The chief, being he was caught with large quainties of pot back in the early 90's --Kev62nesl 08:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kev62nesl (talk • contribs)

I'm not from Boston, but a small town in MA, an hour away. Packee is short for Package Store. I've usually just heard the latter. "Pissa", I thought was spelt pisser and have heard it rhoticized sometimes. "Tonic" is strictly old fashioned and is now usually called "soda", which originated in NYC. I've heard dungarees and never connected it with Mass. "Wicked", amongst older generations, I'd say strictly New England. However, amongst people born after 1980, I'd say more universal. There are probably tons of phrases and words that are Mass, that I are part of my lexicon, but I am not aware that they are regional. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaBomb (talk • contribs) 02:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Brookline/Boston and I don't ever remember people saying "tonic", we always said "soda". --Thepdaswamie 00:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Everett and we always used "tonic". It is the only Boston word that I had to prurposely remove from my lexicon since I often consult with soft drink manufacturers! There are still eating establishments north of Boston that list "tonic" (representing Pepsi, Coke, etc.) on their menus.Wspta 17:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

-The spelling is "statie," not "statee." Also, "townie" may in Boston itself refer to people from Charlestown, but outside it simply refers to any parochial person whose experience is primarily limited to his own town.

-Look, I'm 40 and I still use "tonic" now and then, so that's not really "old fashioned." "Out of style," maybe. Otherwise, I second the spelling of "pisser" - it's a non-rhoticized pronounciation of piss + -er.

-I grew up in Lowell and we also always use "tonic", not "soda."

-"Barrel" usually refers to a "trash can," not a "wastebasket" (though it is sometimes used of a "wastebasket," I think that's an expansion from its usually meaning). It is short for "garbage barrel."— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.33.198 (talk) 13:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

- In my 70's now and have lived in California since 1951. Born in Boston and raised there and other Suffolk County burgs. My Dad always called it "tonic". Which brings me to the Beantowner who walks into a bar with his feline pet nestled in his arms. Says to the barkeep, "I'll have a Pabst and give my catatonic." (You had to be there.") OK, anybody know what a "musty" is?Luzenrf44 (talk) 01:56, 6 July 2008 (UTC)luzenrf44

I deleted all words form the Lexicon that were not referenced (Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Cite sources). There are many words that I notice that are used only in the Boston area that I could add, but I suppose this represents original research, and hence should be excluded. This justifies the deletion of the vocabulary without references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Euler57721 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Revere-Tonic,and I am not old! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.214.142.20 (talk) 07:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

- Pretty sure that "Wicked" was originally spelled "wikkid". From my understanding, the word stems for an old lexicon. In addition to this, the word "Pissah" comes from this same lexicon. I had read some articles in the past on this dialect, but am having trouble locating it. If anyone can do so, I think it would be a great contribution. I think it was called something along the lines of "Norfolk English" dating back a couple hundred years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.29.150 (talk) 07:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Milkshake and Frappe

Note: I've put this here since I had this exchange on an anon IP's talk page, and it could be of interest here, since the changes were to this article. BCorr|Брайен — Preceding undated comment added 15:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Why are you deleting the references to a milkshake without ice cream? Are you thinking about McDonald's milkshakes or something? BCorr|Брайен 22:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I grew up in Boston, and have never heard of or seen anything without ice cream called a milkshake. Nor has anyone else from the area that I asked. The information was inaccurate, so I removed it.

I've lived in Boston since 1987, this was one of the first things I learned here -- after being teased mercilessly for saying "pop" for a soft drink -- and it's not terribly common anymore, but it is real, and not just at one or two places. It's more common south of Boston (Quincy, Brockton, etc.) as it's the standard in Rhose Island, but can be found up in New Hampshire too. A more complete explanation is in the milkshake article here, but there are plenty of non-Wikipedia references to it:

• Answers.com
• SurveyCentral message board with people having the same argument
• Sherwood Hotels brochure about their Boston facilities (pdf format)

Thanks, BCorr|Брайен 15:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Without cited sources to back it up, no claim as to the meanings of "frappe" and "milkshake" in Boston is verifiable, and so should not be included in Wikipedia in the first place. --Angr (t·c) 15:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Found one: http://www.bartleby.com/61/66/M0296600.html --Angr (t·c) 15:56, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

is there actually an arguement over what a milkshake is, it is milk mixed with vanilla sryup, no ice cream. I didnt think there was anything to dabate or argue over. Anyone from the regions knows this.--Kev62nesl 05:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kev62nesl (talk • contribs)

No question. I'm just a teenager, so my dialect isn't probably traditional, but a milkshake is not a common drink. A frappe with ice cream is. I don't live near Boston though. I live near the cape. This is a huge distinction to make when addressing this dialect. Another biggie is "grinder". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.96.213 (talk) 02:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

In my mind, a milkshake does not guarantee ice cream. It should be clearly a beverage (thin straw) as opposed to a frappe (thick straw or spoon). Ladlergo 05:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I grew up on the South Shore, and my family goes back a few generations here. Milkshake, ice cream soda, and frappe are three things that mean different things here than elsewhere, but all I know is that the one I want is a frappe. It's thick and ice-creamy and delicious, where a milkshake is more watered-down (due to the milk), and an ice cream soda is wicked watered-down (due to the soda water). Elsewhere in the country (and even here in Boston sometimes) a milkshake is more like the aforementioned McDonald's milkshake, meaning it's more like a frappe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.105.99 (talk) 13:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

"I grew up in Boston, and have never heard of or seen anything without ice cream called a milkshake. Nor has anyone else from the area that I asked. The information was inaccurate, so I removed it." <- You are quite wrong. Before national chains moved into the area a milkshake did not have ice cream but a frappe did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.243.4.157 (talk) 14:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm from Rhode Island, and we have clear differences between a frappe, a cabinet, a milkshake, and ice cream soda. See the milkshake article. -Daniel Blanchette 00:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Frappé is a coffee-milk drink, made with out iced cream. The term is not a Bostonian term by any definition other than by the masses. Also, the association of an iced milk-syrup "shaken" drink, a milk shake, is not Bostonian. I will have you all know that in London and by else that frappé is defined the same--perhaps by only lower classes. WiZeNgAmOtX (talk) 20:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

T for two

As a native of Massachusetts who has lived in both the Western and Eastern parts of the state (and it really does make a difference), I've noticed that us Massholes tend to drop the letter "t" if it occurs in the middle of a word along with other consonants or at the end of a word. Instead, we use a glottal stop ('). In the case of double "t's", the "t" sound is closer to a "d".
Examples:

• -Moun'ain (for "mountain")
• -Restraun' (for "restaurant")
• (However, "Worcester" is pronounced "Woosta.")
• -Boa' (for "boat")
• -Bai' (for "bait")
• -Beddah (for "better")
• -Mea' cuddah (for "meat cutter")

Frankly, I don't know enough about phonetics and the IPA to write about this. Nor have I done any real research into the topic, aside from observing my own pronunciation and that of those around me. However, if anyone else has noted this habit of pronunciation and knows more about it then I do, I would appreciate the addition of the information to this article. Grammar nazi 05:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

This is true of American English in general, and some other dialects of English as well. It's not specific to Massachusetts by a long shot. --Angr (t·c) 05:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

-I think this is stronger near Connecticut. I hear this a lot, even in refined speech, in Connecticut, which is as close to newscaster as you can find usually. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaBomb (talk • contribs) 02:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

On a somewhat related note, what about the phenomenon that might be called "over-aspirated plosives"? In some of the more extreme local accents around Boston, I hear a tendency to add an extra "breathiness" to both voiced and unvoiced plosive consonants in initial and occasionally final position. A classic example for me is "burger" sounding almost like "bvurguh". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.33.251 (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Truly "non-rhotic?"

I know nothing of linguistics and phonology... I may be deceiving myself but after some years of living in the Boston area I am convinced that the "r" is not truly missing in the Boston accent, it is just different. (And, yes, subtle). A good example is the pronunciation of the town name "Arlington." I am not sure exactly what I am hearing, but something is going on. There is some kind of consonant-like-thing happening before the L. It is not pronounced "Ollington." Similarly, on close listening, I am convinced that "Harvard," while certainly not pronounced the way I would pronounce it, is not pronounced "Hahvahd." There are seven phonemes pronounced, not five.

The best way I can describe it is that when the syllable "ar" is pronounced, there is no real consonant, but the vowel is pronounced as a diphthong. The problem for me is that I can simultaneously perceive that there are two different sounds, and yet both of these sounds to me are perceived as the same "ah" phoneme.

I'll bet that native Boston-accent speakers perceive themselves to be enunciating an "r" and I'll bet they hear an "r." This is certainly true of the few that I've asked.

Lady Mondegreene department: a friend of mine mentioned misperceiving something said by a native Boston-accent speaker. The speaker was a Dr. Armington, who I met on a couple of occasions, and he pronounced his own name much the same way as the Ar- in the name of the town of Arlington. My friend said that Dr. Armington had, on a couple of occasions, used the phrase "a nominal egg" to mean "the price of something expensive." He finally asked about the meaning of this quaint New England expression, since an egg didn't seem like a good exemplar of luxury. It turned out that Armington had been saying that something cost "an arm and a leg." Dpbsmith (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Could be a glotal stop, but I'm from Kansas, so I don't hear many people speaking with a Boston accent around here. Don't know man.Cameron Nedland 03:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Us English usually refer to the typical American 'R' as a hard r, non-rhotic accents do pronounce the R, it's just not as prominent or hard as standard American, i presume non-rhotic accents in the US are similar. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 11:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Non-rhotic accents truly don't pronounce any type of "r sound" in words like car. Instead they lengthen the vowel preceding the "r". It's hard to explain this to a non-rhotic speaker, because in their own minds, they are pronouncing the "r" in words like car. This is true, of course. They are pronouncing it in their own way, but they're just not using any consonantal sound like rhotic speakers. That's why rhotic speakers often call it "dropping the r"; they're referring to the consonantal sound that they're used to hearing at the end of car being "dropped", and the preceding vowel is lengthened to compensate for that. Thegryseone (talk) 18:07, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

It's more than just a lengthened vowel though, for example harder is not pronounced like haader would be. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 05:57, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, haader is not a word, so that's perhaps not the best example. In words like harder, the vowel is also fronted to [ä] which sounds a lot different from how New Yorkers would pronounce that word. In the traditional Boston dialect, the stressed vowel in harder and father is the same. Thegryseone (talk) 06:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

An even better example is the pair father and farther. That's a good way to prove to some non-rhotic speakers that their speech is truly non-rhotic, because one can tell by the spelling of those words that they originally weren't homophones. Thegryseone (talk) 00:42, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I pronounce father and farther differently, yet i am a non rhotic speaker, also when learning our abc's as a child we pronounce the r unlike a rhotic speaker, non-rhotic speakers do pronouce the R, it's just different to a rhotic speaker. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 07:49, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Where are you from? More importantly, what type of accent do you think you have? Thegryseone (talk) 01:01, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

England and English, it's not the RP variety obviously but i'm convinced we do pronounce the r, when learning your abc's an American would probably think we're saying aww, but to us it's an arr, saying we pronouce the r as aww would suggest we actually do not coantian an r in our vocabulary which would beg the question what are we pronouncing when learning the alphabet?

For the record father is pronounced with a short a where i am, not to different from the sound found in unfathomable. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 08:16, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's because you're a Geordie I'm guessing. Geordies use a "short a" /æ/ in father for some strange reason. But a Geordie accent isn't the same as a Boston accent so that's irrelevant to this talk page. In the vast majority of non-rhotic accents, father and farther are homophonous. This is the case in RP, Cockney and other southeastern English accents, Australian English, New Zealand English, South African English, "good" non-rhotic Boston accents (what I would call "real Boston accents"), etc.

What about alms-arms or balmy-barmy? Are those pairs homophones for you? They should be. One can tell by looking at the spelling of arms and barmy that there used to be a "consonantal r sound" before the "m" in both of those words (there probably used to be an "consonantal l sound" in alms and balmy at one time too, but that was deleted earlier, so it's beside the point). The only way you could make alms-arms, balmy-barmy homophones is if you are not pronouncing the "consonantal r sound" in both of those words.

The "alphabetical r" can sometimes be an exception to the rule. This is the case in South African English and New Zealand English, for example, where they will pronounce the letter "r" itself with a consonant sound at the end. I had a South African linguistics teacher that would pronounce the letter "r" itself rhoticly (if that's a word). I'm not sure about other non-rhotic accents though.

No offense, but I think you might be missing the point here. The argument is not about whether non-rhotic speakers pronounce all of their "r's", it's actually about whether or not they pronounce the "r" in words like park how it was originally pronounced, i.e., as a consonant sound. I guess you could say that non-rhotic accents have their own way of pronouncing the "r" in park, it's just that this way happens to be deleting the "consonantal r sound" that formerly came before the "k", and lengthening the vowel sound that previously came before the "consonantal r sound." Thus the "ar" part of the word park simply becomes a vowel sound. This merged with the vowel in words like palm, rather and half (even in Geordie), because the vowel that preceded the (now non-existent) "consonantal r sound" in words like park had the same phonetic quality as the vowel in those words I just mentioned and once the "consonantal r sound" was deleted, all that was left was that vowel sound that sounded just like the one in those words, i.e, palm, rather and half. So basically, non-rhotic speakers only pronounce "r" as a consonant sound when it comes before a vowel. Otherwise, they replace what used to be a consonant sound with a vowel sound. You have to understand the difference between vowels and consonants (I mean in the linguistic sense), before you can understand what I'm telling you. Thegryseone (talk) 18:58, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm definately not a Geordie, barmy and balmy also are pronounced differently,balmy has longer and flatter a sound. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 07:06, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm...you must have some extremely unusual accent then. I'm tired of trying to convince non-rhotic speakers that they have non-rhotic accents. It's obviously futile. I don't see why people take so much offense to being told they have a non-rhotic accent; it's not like being accused of murder or anything. It's just a stupid accent; get over it. Thegryseone (talk) 07:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not offended, i just disgaree with the whole concept, some people drop their H's some people pronounce their T's as D's, see the American pronounciation of Water or Butter, sounds like Wader and Buder to me. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 08:15, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Agree the R isn't totally eliminated, there is something there. When I say Arlington, I certainly do not say Ollington. But I also don't say Arlington. However does not rhotic truly mean the R is absent or just more vague. Don't know much about the subject. I think the sound new englanders hear in there is the extension of the A. So it it isn't simply changed from Arlington to Ollington, but to something like Aaalington. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 16:03, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

geographic area

I found this page very interesting! I might also add that this accent can also be found in (or is very similar to) much of Rhode Island, and eastern Connecticut (in addition to the already mentioned eastern Massachussetts, New Hampshire, and Maine). Since I'm not a linguist, I dare not attempt to change the page on my own. But basically anyone from east of the Connecticut River shares some traits of the Boston accent. It's just food for thought. Any suggestions? --VingenzoTM 15:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Not all of RI. --64.223.54.147 (talk) 14:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If you get someone from Boston(a true resident not a college student that never left), someone from the North and South Shores, Rhode Island, The Cape and Western MA. Someone from the left coast will be able to tell that we are all from different areas.Bazzledorf (talk) 21:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Nobody in Connecticut speaks like this... Why would people hours from Boston talk like Bostonians? They don't. Bottom line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.155.92 (talk) 19:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Nobody talks like the Kennedys

I take issue with the note at the end of the first paragraph stating that the best-known user of the Boston accent was JFK. NOBODY in Boston has that accent except his brother Teddy. Nobody. Come to Boston and you'll never hear this peculiar accent.

I'd also like to note that, although to the outside world all the accents from Maine to Connecticut form the larger Boston-y accent, there is a gigantic difference in accent in different areas. For example, I grew up on the South Shore, where most people speak very low in their vocal range (think words like "cahnt" for can't) and with more of a Brooklyn-like punchiness than on the North Shore, where the voice is much breathier and words are spoken much more quickly (Think PEE-biddy for Peabody). Despite the Big Dig's connecting us all together like never before, these differences seem to persist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.165.202 (talk) 01:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Hailing from North-Eastern Connecticut and having very heavy experience in Mass, Rhode Island, and Southern CT, I can say for a fact that Connecticut is for the most part "Standard American" in its accent, with a few MA and RI influenced folks here and there. Maine and Vermont, however, have quite a large "accented" population. That said, you're completely right, no one has an accent like the Kennedys. --Shaikoten 16:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Joe Quimby (the mayor of Springfield, from The Simpsons) has the distinctive "Kennedy accent." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.205.108.130 (talk) 20:28, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Joe Quimby you've got to be kidding--Kev62nesl 06:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kev62nesl (talk • contribs)

Yeah, with Quimby. The Simpsons writers were not from New England. They, like Trey Parker and Matt Stone on South Park during Cartoon Wars, confuse the dialect with New York.

Kennedy's dialect is bizzare. And its his whole family. Its more reminiscent of the accents in rural areas, where words like there and four are two syllables, than Boston sub-urbs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaBomb (talk • contribs) 02:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Quimby is modeled after the Kennedys Joe Quimby --Kev62nesl 08:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm from the Metro West area and few of the neighbors have anything like a Boston accent. Maybe the range of the accent should be defined a bit more clearly. Ladlergo 05:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It's true that no one speaks like the Kennedys. I'm from Cambridge (a city across the charles river from Boston, for those of you who don't know) and I know this to be a fact. It is just a bureaucratic thing they have to make them seem closer to the people. This may become controversial, but I doubt it's real. J-stan 19:55, 2 August, 2006.

Time factor in debate over whether anyone talks like the Kennedys

I moved as an early teen to the Boston are(r) in the early 1970s. It was like moving to a different country. There were all these new words, like wicked, pissah. Many people talked like the Kennedys. That was nahmal. (The accents of Matt Damon and Ben Affleck in Good Will Hunting give you a sense of this.

Softening of Boston accent

With time, the Boston accent has softened. This has happened with the influence of television. Television provides a national standard. Children spend many hours listening to it. Aside from their parents, television is an important factor in shaping children's speech. Cumulatively, more generations have become influenced by standard American speech, and less influenced by Boston speech. Furthermore, local television stations have influenced this by employing newscasters with Standard American accents, rather than with Bostonian speech.
Actually, Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy had stronger accents in the 1970s. When one hears recordings of their speeches from that period their accents are more pronounced.
For many people there was the notion that having the Boston accent was low class. These speakers have shed or never adopted the accent. Additionally, the colleges of Boston and Cambridge have attracted migrants from other pahts of the U.S. Many of these migrants have stayed and have influenced the mannah of speech in the Boston area(r).
So, we now have the softened Boston accent. It is too bad that aside from the Kennedys we have few easily accessible recohdings of standid Bahston speech in the 1960s. Dogru144 14:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm the person who wrote the original comment, and I have to argue with this. My family has lived in Boston since the Irish Potato Famine (mid-1800s), and despite the fact that my mother's family is from the same county as the Kennedy's, there's no similarity in the accent. I take issue with your statement that in the 1970's a lot of people talked like the Kennedys -- ask my parents, aunts (pronounced "ahhntz") and uncles, and they all had a big issue with how the entire country thought people here spoke like that. If you spend any time in downtown Boston (and plenty of other outlying areas) you'll here the same accent -- at the same strength -- that you heard from politicians and actors of earlier times -- think Mayor (of Boston) Kevin White in the 70's and the Tin Woodman in the Wizard of Oz in the 30's (!!). You'll hear variations between South Boston and Charlestown, Cape Cod and Cape Ann, but none of them sounds like Teddy, Robert, and JFK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.109.241 (talk) 02:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Lower classed and new middle classed Boston speaks a lower classed English accent similar to that of working London and lower classed Virginia. The proper English is Oxford's English. The Kennedy family speaks an English that is very much not Bostonian. Rather, the Kennedy family speaks an English that is like Oxford English and upper classed Virginia, Kentucky, Georgia, and North Carolina. This page should not be called Boston English, but rather have a dedicated Boston section--which may dominate the page. I hope that I am responded to, or I will enforce mine ideas by mine approval. WiZeNgAmOtX (talk) 21:05, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a good point, if you start your day on the Cape, travel into Quincy, then Dorchester, then go Malden, Revere, Lynn, Marbelehad, Beverly, then head out to Danvers, Lawrence and Lowell, you will have heard a bunch of different Boston accents. And then within each community you are going to hear different accents. I don't think I've heard many inner city black people in Boston talk with a standard Boston accent for example. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 16:05, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Ben Affleck & Matt Damon

If those two have Boston accents, then Moxie is a delicious soda. -- Toscaesque 16:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

-You honestly don't know what they have. They're actors who have experianced many dialects and accents. In Good Will Hunting, Damon's accent was pretty convincing. If he spoke like that in person, I would not be able to tell if he was affecting it or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaBomb (talk • contribs) 02:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Many native New Englanders have learned to slip in and out of the accent at will. Early interviews with these two have shown that they have this accent. -- Malber (talk • contribs) 16:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

But Moxie is a delicious soda!--Mayor Beauregard 19:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed!!!Bazzledorf (talk) 21:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Ben and Matt grew up in the Boston area and Matt went to Harvard. I would think since the grew up in Boston Proper that they would have actual accents and if they needed to exagerate it for the movie, they would be able to do so! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.95.228 (talk) 02:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I found their accents to be very believable, although I've never heard anyone from Southie refer to Harvard students as "bahnies" as they do in the movie. talk —Preceding undated comment was added at 07:09, 10 January 2009 (UTC).

Keep in mind there isn't just one Boston accent. Lots of people have "vague boston accents", especially folk from more white collar communities. I suspect, like a lot of us in the region, these guys have two accents. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Slang section

This section says the word 'jimmies' means only chocolate sprinkles. I have heard and used the term 'rainbow jimmies,' for meither of them would anyone around here use the word 'sprinkles,' it sound so weird.
Oh, and to the comment above.... Moxie is a delicious soda. Rmpfu89 14:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm familiar with the word "sprinkles" in reference to both kinds. However, both of my parents are from NY (Brooklyn and Niagara Falls), so maybe my vocabulary is a bit skewed. Ladlergo 05:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Some of this "Boston Slang" happens to be pretty popular out in NW Kansas, so I think some of it is GA slang. Just food for thought.Cameron Nedland 04:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

-Hate to say this, but "jimmies" originally referred only to chocolate sprinkles: and the reference was to "jimmy," a offensive slang term for a dark-skinned man. A number of black candies had similar names - for instance, there used to be a candy called "n***** babies" (obfuscation was my own). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.233.33.198 (talk) 13:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Screw you urban legend spreading bastard. Jimmies was not and is not racist, learn your history, --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmies — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.58.162 (talk) 19:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

A note on slang- Growing up in Boston, I never heard the word "grinder" used to mean a "submarine sandwich." We used the word "sub", and I only heard "grinder" when I moved to Western Mass. Liz S. 7/23/07 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.15.121 (talk) 02:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

In Eastern Mass, Sub is the standard.Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Suggested move with redirect

I suggest that this article be moved to the more accurate title "Eastern New England accent" as other states throughout New England are mentioned. The accent is more widespread than just Boston (with minor variations which are discussed in the article). A redirect will insure that anyone searching for "Boston accent" will come here. -- Malber (talk • contribs) 16:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Mayor Quimby or Moe Szyslak?

If anyone from "The Simpsons" series talks with genuine Boston accent, it is bartender Moe Szyslak. I wouldn't say that Quimby is necessarily a good example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennibgd (talk • contribs) 00:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Moe Szyslak is a "bad imitation of Al Pacino", in Hank Azaria's words. That is exactly Al Pacino's accent, who grew up in the Bronx. 71.195.31.76 05:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Moe Szyslak's accent does not have Boston features at all. As with quite a few supporting and minor Simpsons characters, Moe's accent seems to me to be a variant of what I'd call 'comical faux-New York'. (I would not have seen a similarity to Al Pacino without it being pointed out, but I can kind of see it.) Rfontana (talk) 01:44, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

British Heritage

It is interesting how you can actually hear the transition from British English to American English within the Boston accent - like in certain features throughout the East Coast. Think about how an Englishman says 'got' and how an average American says it. The former pronounces it almost like 'goat', while with the latter it is more like 'gat'. Both of these sounds are contained in the word when a Bostonian says it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.166.231.193 (talk) 04:20, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, Bostonians often pronounce the H in words like "herb" while the rest of the US does not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wspta (talk • contribs) 17:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

'Got' in the UK is pronounced nothing like 'goat'. 'Got' is /ɡɒt/ while 'goat' is /ɡəʊt/ Vauxhall1964 (talk) 17:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Bang a Uey

This article claims (without reference, shocking) that this phrase for "make a u-turn" is exclusive to New England. I can report, however, that it is used regularly in the Midwest, and certainly in Indianapolis, where I live. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.103.48 (talk) 18:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Non-rhoticity elsewhere in New England

The recent edit says:

Traditional maps have marked most of the territory east of the Connecticut river as non-rhotic, but this is highly innacurate of contemporary speakers. The University of Pennsylvania's Telsur map shows non-rhoticity as only occuring with any significant frequency in Eastern Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Southeastern New Hampshire, Southeastern Connecticut, and Coastal Maine.

However, Penn's Telsur project only interviewed speakers from major cities. In other words, Eastern Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Southeastern New Hampshire, Southeastern Connecticut, and Coastal Maine are all the areas east of the Connecticut River for which Telsur has any data at all. Thus this is in no wise inconsistent with "most of the territory east of the Connecticut River" being non-rhotic—in fact, it supports it. AJD 21:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I can agree with the non-rhotic comment east of the Connecticut River. I'm from Rhode Island and I know that we are non-rhotic. Even then we have a subset of the Boston slang - i.e. coffee milk, johnnycake, quahog chowder, CF, Borington, and other things like that. However, a clearer disctinction needs to be made between the Rhode Island and Boston accents. -Daniel Blanchette 00:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

boston brahmin

i added a clarification at the top of the page to distinguish from the Boston Brahmin accent. i don't know if this is the conventional way of such notation, so if anyone else wants to bring that into line with other wikipedia conventions, please do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.102.119 (talk) 04:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, your link was stylistically all right; however, I removed it because I have yet to see a reputable source which states that the accent of Boston Brahmins differs from the characteristics of the Boston accent described in this article. The Boston Brahmin accent article itself is linguistically confused, hopelessly vague, and totally unsourced, and it only refers to the speech of individuals who are not Boston Brahmins; see my comments in Talk:Boston Brahmin accent. AJD 05:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I was born and raised on the North Shore (South Boston & Lynn) and I can tell you with certainty that the Family who is most widely known for their use of the Boston Brahmin accent are The Kennedy's! ( http://www.today.com/health/learning-or-losing-boston-accent-can-be-wicked-hahd-1C8388887 ) This distinct accent, while not entirely unlike the urban Boston accent, was mainly reserved for use by Bostons upper class. The Kennedy's however are the most notable since their positions within our government entailed being broadcast on radio and television nationwide and even worldwide. With the passing of the late Senator Ted Kennedy it seems as though we may have heard one of the last few authentic Brahmin accent speakers as this dialect is currently on the verge of extinction. Many people who have never been to Boston or who do not personally know someone native to the Greater Boston area might have been lead to believe that this in fact was the accent used by all Bostonians which is not true at all. If I had to give an example of an Boston accent that was the most closely related to Brahmin then I would say listen to a person from the South End (more affectionately known as "Southie" by us Bostonians). Now in regard to who speaks with the most genuine Boston accent, being that there are many variations from slight ones to major ones that vary from city to city, I would direct you to most of the coastal cities of Massachusetts from the North Shore on down to The Cape. Though many writings on the subject have broadened that area to include Coastal Maine, Southeastern New Hampshire, and even Rhode Island. I, however being a native Bostonian can tell you for a fact that the moment I hear someone from Maine or New Hampshire speak that they are NOT from the Greater Boston area and the inclusion of Rhode Island is just ridiculous as they have an accent more related to Northeastern Connecticut (a mix of both the Boston and New York accents). On another note, I've seen a lot of back and forth on the matter of how Harvard is said by someone with a genuine Boston accent, and while the whole non-rhotic thing does come in to play, I can unequivocally tell you we do not pronounce it Hahvahd! Anyone from Boston will tell you the way it's pronounced here is Hahvid! I am proud of my Boston accent and wouldn't change it for anything regardless of who bashes us for it! Come on now where else in the world can you hear "Fire" pronounced "Fi-YAH" now I'd say that's WICKED PISSA! Lol! 50.153.135.136 (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Southeastern New England

Boston is not considered "Southeastern New England" which is usually used to describe areas south of Boston. The Boston accent is common to areas to the North and South of Boston and in Boston itself. The accent is very similar in areas of southern Maine, New Hampshire and Rhode Island. A very different accent is heard in central and western Massachusetts. I don't really know how to define the area perfectly, because there is a gradual shift in the accent. In Portland, Maine, one can hear something very similar to a Boston accent, with differences such as "ayup" instead of "yup," for example. It is hard to tell where the Boston accent ends and the Maine accent begins. Alcinoe 11:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Vocabulary Section

I live in Northern Ireland and I just wanted to point out that I recognise some of the words and phrases which are listed under Boston slang. For example: "blinker" to mean a car indicator light, "mint" for good, and "says" in place of said. I also notice a parallel between the stated use of the word "wicked", as in very, and what some rural dwellers in Ulster say - wild, ie "That car was going wild fast!" Less common in these parts is the use of "hey" to end a question or statement - "What time are you going home, hey?". In this case, it is peculiar to Ballymena and "hey" is pronounced "hi." I wonder then if the Boston dialect is just a descendent of the language used by the many Irish settlers who left these shores to make their home in New England. I'm not a linguist by any means, but has anyone else got any ideas? Paddyman1989 00:33, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Old post, but I've always thought this. I got my accent from my mother I'd assume (my dad's is much less strong), who, although only the granddaughter of Irish immigrants (Cork, of course...), was raised only by her 100% Irish decent mother in Lowell, Massachusetts. She calls Horses Haasiz and Corn is Cahn, Bath is Baahth, etc. So, not only do we have no rs, but we have that flat A that is very atypical of American English. So, it wouldn't surprise me if our words were largely Irish based as well. One thing that seems to have definitely changed is my generation very rarely says "So I says:" etc. We use "I'm like" like the rest of young America. CSZero 17:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Carol Danvers (Ms. Marvel)

Can anybody tell me if this is the accent Ms. Marvel talks in? I'm from Holland, and I love to hear the voices of the characters in my comic books in their genuine accents; I hear Rogue (from X-Men) in a Mississippi drawl, I would love to know if this is what Carol sounds like. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.69.56.237 (talk) 17:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

Yes, most likely. Carol Danvers is from Beverly, MA, north of Boston. I actually work in Beverly--most people in Beverly have the standard Boston accent. BostonFrank (talk) 02:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Family Guy

Lois and Peter Griffin from Family Guy should be added to the list because they have Boston accents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.78.96.151 (talk) 18:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Umm, isn't Family Guy suppose to be a parody of Rhode Island? --Daniel Blanchette 00:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they live in Quahog, Rhode Island and as far as I know, they do not have Boston accents. Zomic_13 01:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Thus, if that's so, then if they are a parody of RI, then they have Rhode Island accents. --Daniel Blanchette 23:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

They sound like Rhode Islander's to my Boston ear.. It's half Boston, half New York, but exactly like neither. If you pay attention, they are much more rhotic than we are around here. (sorry, I don't have an account..) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.78.202.3 (talk) 15:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

The Rhode Island accent is basically a Boston accent. You pretty much hear variations of the accent throughout New England (whether its Boston, Maine, NH, Rhode Island, etc. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 18:01, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

-ing becomes -in

Having lived in Nashua, New Hampshire for most of my life, I can say for sure that many in the area, especially in and around Boston, drop the g in words ending in ing. Thus, walking becomes walkin, and so forth. I didn't see this aspect of the accent in the article.
Also, I changed coffee regular to coffee; regular in the vocabulary section, the same way it's listed in the Boston slang article. Verbatim, people order a "regular coffee." The words are most likely reversed in the list to put the noun first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.126.59.104 (talk) 07:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

note i moved it to regular coffee. as for the dropping g's I'm positive other parts of the country do so too. New England 07:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, I restored your version of the coffee thing. New England 08:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Question

Does it say in this article or does anyone know if Boston is continuing to be non-rhotic for the most part? Or is it becoming like most of the country in that way (rhotic)? Just curious. 208.104.45.20 03:18, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

It is still mostly non-rhotic, but since the internet, and globalization more people are aware of the accent, and compensate. More "older" (over 35) still have it, but it's less so than it was years ago, when we were ignorant to the fact we ever did have an accent at all. After traveling, more people pointed out my accent so that I became self-conscience, and modified my speach. It's still hard to do, almost like another language. I have to watch my R's. I hate words or names like Mark, car, park, etc. My sister and I now live in the Midwest (we're older) and we laugh at times, especially when trying to be conscience of our "R's". One funny thing that we are both guilty of, is saying, "con on the corb", instead of "corn on the cob". It's weird, subconsciously, being unsure where the "r" belongs, as in the phase above. lol. All my family who still live there have the pure Boston accent, the younger ones, have it to a lessor degree, but it's still obvious. They say I sound like a "hick", here they think I'm from New York, or have a speach impediment the longer I'm here, because it's not a real Boston accent, and some words I find hard to say (like "hard") <shrug> - Jeeny ^Talk 03:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I was born in Southie, but now live in the suburbs and I've noticed that me and my friends seem to slip in and out of using the accent (mainly our pronunciation of R). New England ^{(C) (H)} 04:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The Boston accent was always a white thing, so the massive exodus of whites from the city has removed it in many places. I'm sure it's still there in the suburbs they moved to, but the strongest examples are probably being smoothed over. I don't talk to kids, so I don't hear them very often. Isolation was the key, and the tight, crowded neighborhoods of the city encouraged the differentiation. MarkinBoston 03:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Not covered: Intra-Boston differences

When I went to a city-wide high school in the late sixties, I learned that different parts of the city had different accents. The Southie kids were immediately recognizable, as were some from Dorchester. West Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, Hyde Park, and Brighton were all about the same. Since then, many of those people have moved out of the city, so I suspect that the differences won't last much longer, if they even haven't already disappeared. I have no references, so it's purely anecdotal, but real none the less.

And for the love of God, the Kennedys have NOTHING to do with the classic Boston accent. I have no idea where they got it, but it's more downeast yankee than Boston streets. I can only assume that it was some kind of Lace Curtain posing. MarkinBoston 02:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

If you can find some reliable research on this stuff, go ahead. For the most part, dialectological differences between different parts of the same city have almost never been found that weren't actually the effect of social class and/or ethnicity, rather than neighborhoods. AJD 03:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any references - I was hoping to call out someone who does. The differences between Irish-American, working-class housing project dwellers in South Boston and Jamaica Plain was dramatic to my Boston ear. Needless to say, it's too late to do the research now. MarkinBoston 16:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I added the essential link for lace curtain phrase. Dogru144 (talk) 00:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC) I removed link; amazingly, no one has written an article on the topic.Dogru144 (talk) 00:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Well-known speakers

Not only is this section a catch-basin for anyone from eastern New England, it is also full of particularly bad examples. The Kennedys, George Mitchell, Leonard Nemoy, Christopher Lydon? Professional media people work hard to lose their accents, George Mitchell is from Maine, and the Kennedys are in their own world. And Tommy "Mumbles" Menino? God bless him, but if people get the idea Tommy is representative of the rest of us, we're in big trouble. I could take out the most egregrious names, but the section would just fill up again as the page gets views. I recommend removing the section, and putting a mention of Tom and Ray in another place. How many of the rest are known by voice by at least an American audience? Jermaine Wiggins? Andy Card? MarkinBoston 16:51, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed Nemoy and Bette Davis. They do not, IMO, nor did not, have the Boston accent, that I know of. Perhaps they did at one time. As for Bette Davis her accent seems like a cross between the Kennedy's and Katharine Hepburn (who was born in Conneticut)... well that's best way I can describe it anyway. I don't know the others you listed, as I have not heard them speak. Jeeny ^(talk) 05:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else think this section is now out of control? I don't know many of these people, so I can't judge whether all of them do or don't have a Boston accent, but I think there needs to be a limit at some point. I see people continually add to the list, and it seems too long to me. Kman543210 (talk) 05:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. AJD (talk) 13:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree as well - this is ridiculous. Cut it down to a handful of males and females of various ages. CSZero (talk) 15:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Bummer

Agrofe: The standard for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability. CSZero and I both say believe that bummer is not a distinctive feature of Boston English, and you haven't shown any evidence to verify your assertion that it is (for instance, evidence that it's not used in other dialects). You have to expect that implausible claims made without evidence will be removed. AJD 22:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I think moreso we should have a semi-formal add/remove to this list. I am a Lowellian in my mid-20s, so my list of "Boston Words" might be different. Agrofe is from Acton, which I can imagine is even more divergent from the blue-collar generations-old speak this article is talking about. Either way, many words on this list are non-verifiable. I'll post my truncated I'd-like-these-list here. CSZero 01:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is its. I'm basing these on either (it seems) well-known examples or words I've used even in upstate New York and been looked at funny:

* bubbler or water bubbler — 'drinking fountain'

* bang a Uey — To take a U-turn

* down cellar — 'in the basement'

* frappe — 'a blend of ice cream, milk, and syrup'[2] (milkshake refers to a concoction not made with ice cream)

* jimmies - chocolate 'sprinkles'

* (This one wouldn't surprise me but I don't know) johnny — a medical gown worn by patients for examinations

* milk shake - 'drink composed of milk and flavored syrup, without ice cream[3]'

* packie — 'liquor store', short for "package store"

* parlor - 'living room', 'family room'

* pisser (sounds like pissah) - Good, great. Also an affectionate term for someone who does something mischievous (i.e. "Aaron is such a pissah, he invited us to a party and then charged us to get in!") Also, the cliche term "wicked pissah" is selectively used in Boston, though is becoming archaic.

* regular coffee — 'coffee with milk (or cream) and usually two spoonfuls of sugar'

* rotary — 'traffic circle or roundabout'

* (This is listed often but I've never heard it) spa — 'convenience store' (originally, it meant a store with a soda : fountain). A "Town Spa" is often a pizza restaurant.

* tonic — 'soft drink' (tonic is retreating in favor of soda among younger speakers)

* The Pike - A term commonly used by Bostonians when referring to the Massachusetts Turnpike

* The T - Public transportation in the Metro Boston area. Refers to the subway, the streetcar, the ferry, and the bus.

* triple decker — or more commonly three decker a three-story, three-family home with one unit built on top of the other'

* wicked — 'very'; alternatively, 'wicked' may also indicate approval or become a universal descriptor, e.g., "That chowdah was wicked good."

I would add Elastic at least. Rubber band just about everywhere else. I think we need a section on grammatical things we say as well that are totally wrong: "So he says / I says" as opposed to the newer "he's like / I'm like" and my personal favorite that never flies out of state "Yeah? Well so don't I!" Look that up Bostonians, that should be do :-) CSZero 01:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

"Light Dawns on Marblehead" While we're at it - it never occured to me that this expression was about the town. Is that true, and if so, does the expression escape the areas? CSZero 01:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with "elastic", no one here, (OHIO) understands the connection at all. I'm not sure if there is anywhere else it is common or even known to mean a "rubber band". I hate having to change my speech/words for others to understand me. Good lord, I'm actually calling "tonic" "pop"! But, I can't call my aunt an ant....evah. lol. - Jeeny ^(talk) 09:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I also agree with elastic. But who's idea was "Tzar" for pizza? That's wrong. It's just "Za". BostonFrank (talk) 02:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

A note about "Packie" - Packie does mean a package store, but it has also become used frequently to refer to those who purchase alcohol illegally for minors. They are called "packie" without an article preceding the noun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.254.53 (talk) 01:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe bummer is something unique to mass, but it is a word that is prevalent. Or at least was. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 15:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

North Shore

I was sitting in a restarant in Rockport, Massachusetts a few months ago and two elderly men were seated at the next table over. They had a very strong but different accent than the Lowell accent I'm used to (which in my opinion, is practically identical to the Boston one). My first guess was they were from Maine based on the dropped rs, extreme flat as, and drawl, but after picking up a bit of the conversation, they were from the North Shore. My father always told me that people in Essex County speak differently from those in Middlesex, I believe his wording was "higher class." Is there any veracity to this? Is the accent I was hearing typical Naahth Shaah, and is it essentially dead? Should we discuss that in this article? Thanks, CSZero (talk) 18:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I was born and grew up in Essex County and have lived there for 20+ years. This is strictly anecdotal, but it seems that those in Essex County have a milder form of the Boston accent which is often closer to the speech in southern New Hampshire than the speech of those who live in the most accented areas such as Revere and Medford. Many of those who live in Essex County, especially the smaller towns, have moved in from other parts of the country, and communities like Boxford, Andover, Manchester-by-the-Sea, and Lynnfield are quite rich; and the influence of television is probably more prevalent in outer suburbs than in the inner suburbs and the city. The effect of these influences is a milder Boston accent in the area. I haven't noticed a strong accent or a drawl in Essex County like you have described -- especially when contrasted to those who grew up just north of Boston. They are probably from Maine, but who knows? :-) Midtempo-abg (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the accent tends to be milder among the white collar class on the North Shore, but it is still there. However, this isn't always the case. If you go to Nahant, for example, which is a sub-burb and very north shore, there are lots of people with heavy boston accents. There is also the phenom. of people int he North Shore, raised by blue collar parents; who seem to end up with two accents (depending on which circle they run in). Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 15:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow! You just described me perfectly! I grew up in Lynn with a blue collar Father from Southie and a white collar Mother from Gloucester and I find that when I'm around my friends and family my Boston accent comes out wicked strong but when I'm at school or work or talking in a professional setting my Boston accent becomes so toned down its almost non-existent (I say almost because there are some words that inevitably get said without an R or two...you try having an entire conversation carefully thinking about your pronunciation of every word that contains an R! And God forbid I have to say "FIRE" which even though I can mimic how the rest of America says it simply choose not to! It just sounds weird...saying "Fi-YAH" is way more fun! Lol!) 50.153.135.136 (talk) 18:37, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

The Haverhill/Lowell/Lawrence is unique, as are most regional/town accents. I met someone in New York and immediately knew she was from Haverhill by her accent (my mother's home town). In the Greater Boston area there even differences within towns, such as southern (closer to Somerville) and northern Medford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:d117:f600:6dc1:3076:74e6:81e (talk) 21:42, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Suggested Additions

There is nothing in this article about "youse" and "youse guys" for the third-person plural pronoun. People that speak this dialect sometimes say "I says" instead of "I said" for the past tense conjugation of the first-person singular as well. There is also a tendency to put the letter "s" at the end of certain words where it normally is not found. I have heard "everywhere" pronounced "everywheres". My Massachusetts neighbors have all these features in their speech. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 23:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

You are right that some people say "youse" and/or "youse guys". I know this as a fact, but it is not exclusive to Boston. It's the Northeast's version of ya'll, or y'all. It's not just used in Boston, but New England, Philly, NJ and NY. It's regional. If you can find a reliable source that states it's a Boston thang, then go for it. But, I've already tried and was unsuccessful. Like I said, it's a Northeasterm dialect thing. Now, "I says" for "I said" is so wrong. Maybe you're misunderstanding your neighbors. Well, you said "Massachusetts neighbors", not Boston. Western Mass. has a different dialect. Where do you live? lol Hearing your neighbors say this is using original research, anyway(s). - Jeeny ^(talk) 18:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but you should trust me. Think about it: If I'm going to waste my time editing dialect articles on Wikipedia, do you truly believe I'm going to make this stuff up? I've always known that "youse guys" is not EXCLUSIVE to Boston, but that doesn't mean it is not worth mentioning in this aritlce, just to let people know it's part of the lexicon (the vocabulary of a particular dialect). I mean it's not NOT a part of their speech, right? Trust me, I can tell the difference between the voiced "d" sound at the end of "said" and the sibilant, voiceless "s" sound at the end of "says". According to this article, the "Boston Accent" is not restricted to the city proper. The husband IS from Boston itself and his wife is from eastern Massachusetts (but still speaks this dialect). The dialect of western (not capitalized) Massachusetts more resembles Inland Northern American English (the dialect with the Northern Cities Vowel Shift). There is a considerable amount of difference between this dialect and the former. The most obvious being the rhoticity. LOL is right, my friend. 208.104.45.20 19:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jeeny, many of the entries in the lexicon part of this article are not exclusively used in Bean Town. Do you think we should be so exclusionary?--Agrofe 19:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for taking this to the talk page. I watch this article and the mild edit-warring that brews is obnoxious and makes things hard to follow. Original research still, but it it definitely common for older eastern Mass people to say "I says" "he says" etc. It's been replaced in the younger generations with the national "I'm like" "he's like" etc. Then again, as I've mentioned 100 times on this page, I'm from Lowell, not Boston. I've never heard "youse" used around here. CSZero 20:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

And to answer your question, yes, I think we should be relatively exclusionary. Just like you tried to add "Bummer" last time, which is heard in media from many parts of the english speaking world. If we do want to mention some of the larger regional ones, like youse, which now that I think of it, I might occasionally hear "youse have no idear what I mean do ya?" then I would asterick it as being part of larger Northeast English. The one that I mention here from time to time that again, I have no data on, is the use of negative contractions in place of positive ones: "So haven't I", etc. I think in general, Bostonians, for such an educated group, have poor venacular, but a lot of it isn't universial to the area or unique. CSZero 20:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how "edit-warring" makes anything hard to follow; especially when it's none of your business. We have the right to argue on Wikipedia until we get things right. However, I do respect your thoughts, though I wish Jeeny would respond to my comments instead of someone else. 208.104.45.20 23:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, no, you don't have the right to just edit away until you get it right. I'm glad you respect my opinion to take it here instead of the page - however, it's hardly my opinion. Please read WP:Three_revert_rule and note that if not to the letter, the spirit of this rule has been broken here by both sides. You are approaching an "edit war" and it's a problem in this article in general. And declaring it none of my business is also incorrect. This is a public-domain encyclopedia, it's anyone's business who wants to make it their business. As a community member, I have a right to do my part towards having as factual of an encyclopedia and as friendly of a community as possible. Again, I'm not even disagreeing with your edits (nor are you implying I am) but the literally two minutes it takes to register will help make it easier for other editors to assume good faith on your edits a tad easier. I've seen your editing before, you know your stuff, you really should register. CSZero 23:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I've also been watching this slow burn edit war, and all I have to say is that if those wanting "youse" and what not included, they should perhaps read the policies related to original research, verifiability and reliable sources. Until the material is added with sources to back it up, I will support its excision from the article. Mr. anonymous IP: It's like Reagan said: trust but verify. Jeffpw 00:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean offense to anyone. Sometimes I just get frustrated. I don't even care much about these edits. I just wanted to see if I could get some successful edits included in this article. The point is I know what I say is true. That satisfies me enough. Thanks for telling me the rules on Wikipedia. I really like the idea of a public-edited encyclopedia. 208.104.45.20 05:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Josh

I was watching This Old House and I heard one of the men use the term "josh". By the context, he seemed to be using it to mean "thing". He said, "Whuddya think of this josh?". I was wondering if that term was unique to the area. It's probably not, but I'm just not used to hearing that. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 00:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that was the other dude's name -- Josh. lol. I was born and raised there and the only other meaning that I can think of, and is not unique to the area, is; "josh; to joke, or to tease". - Jeeny ^(talk) 04:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You have an offensive tone of superiority. As if I did not know what the verb "josh" meant. Please do not use "lol" anymore with me. It is annoying as hell. I don't care how you meant it; it comes off as arrogant when you write it. Thanks. LMAO 208.104.45.20 (talk) 21:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

æ-tensing

It seems like æ-tensing occurs more often in Boston speech than just before nasals. I was wondering if anyone else noticed. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

What does this mean? Why do so many people on this page not register with names, and instead use IP addresses? Dogru144 (talk) 00:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"Accent gaps"

This whole new section, as a previous editor suggested in an edit comment, lies somewhere between OR, speculation, and fabrication. It's probably true that Newton and Brookline display less in the way of overt Boston accent features, but that doesn't make them not part of the Boston-accent speech community. Rather, I'd suggest, it's presumably because Newton and Brookline are affluent upper-middle-class communities, and many of the most recognizable features of the Boston accent have some social disfavor attached to them and drop off in the higher-status social groups throughout the Boston dialect region. Anyhow, it's simply not true that Jews "have been found" to lack the Boston accent; Jews have the accent just as much as anyone else. AJD (talk) 05:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, Conan O'Brien's from Brookline if that gives people an idea of what people from Brookline sound like. But as you said, people from Brookline still have Boston accents, no matter what they actually sound like, which is why I added Conan to the list of notable speakers. Thegryseone (talk) 20:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

low vowel

This term does not belong in phonetics and needs to be replaced with proper terminology by someone who knows what low vowel is supposed to mean! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 09:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

What? Low vowel is perfectly standard phonetics terminology. AJD (talk) 13:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

SE CT

I am a CT native, not a New Englander as I represent the NY/NJ/CT Tri-state region and know little about New England. However, I have not noticed a Boston type accent in SE or Eastern CT. I whenever I did, I would ask the people where they were from and I would find out that they were from RI or MA. I hate to say it, but they almost sound like they are speaking a different language since I can hardly understand them. My point is, no matter how much people up in New England just want to put CT in there area, we are nothing like those people and we have nothing in common. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.93.188 (talk) 23:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Those people? Really? You should grab a book on U.S. History and go to the section of the first New England colonies stat! Your ignorance is laughable. (Here let me get you started...refer to excerpt below)

The New England Colonies of British America included the colonies of Connecticut, Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Massachusetts, and Province of New Hampshire. They were part of the Thirteen Colonies, along with the Middle Colonies and the Southern Colonies.

New England Colonies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_ColoniesWikipedia

50.153.135.136 (talk) 18:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Native Speakers

I was reading the list and found many errors. Yes, most of the speakers were born in the Eastern New England, but many do not speak with an accent. I have never heard John Kerry speak with an accent. Mark Wahlberg affects an African American accent, not a Boston accent. Jeremy Rhoenick does not speak with a Boston accent. He is of course a great guy, but he is not even from Boston. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeacefrogCA (talk • contribs) 20:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The list is much longer than necessary for giving examples. Please do some pruning if you can do so knowledgeably and responsibly. Also, please sign your talk page posts by typing four tildes or clicking on the signature icon. Hertz1888 (talk) 22:20, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Where do you live? Kerry has progressively softened his accent since he entered the natioanl stage. I remember his Lt. Gov years and his first years as a senator. He definitely spoke with the accent in the 1970s. Haven't you heard the archive video of his testimony to Congress when he was a protesting ex-Vietnam vet? He had the accent then.Dogru144 (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I like how he says Roenick is not from Boston....He was born in Boston, grew up in Billrica and went to High School in Braintree. How much more proof do you need.Bazzledorf (talk) 22:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Jeremy Roenick grew up in Virginia and played his youth hockey in NJ, his family moved to the Boston area so he could play at Thayer, he doesn't have Boston accent. Tom Glavine was from Billrica, maybe that's who you're thinking of. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.69.65 (talk) 19:17, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Time bias in examples of speakers

What of the film actors from the [late!] 1920s to the 1940s that had the accent? Surely, Matt Damon is not the only film actor to have spoken with the accent.Dogru144 (talk) 00:15, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Which actors are you thinking of? Jack Haley and Ray Bolger are both good examples who come to mind for me; I'll add them to the list if they're not there already. But I'm leery of making this list any longer than it needs to be. AJD (talk) 01:03, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Inline Citations

I'd be happy to insert the citation where they are needed (the box at the top of the page says they are needed) but I don't want to step on anyone's toes if I do it. Also, I'm not quite sure which sentences need citations. As a law student, I need to cite after every sentence, but that doesn't seem necessary here. Let me know on my talk page or in here. Swilk (talk) 14:03, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

About

One of my neighbors from Boston has an interesting realization of /aʊ/ in about. It sounds really far back in the mouth like [ʌʊ]. Maybe that's the "Canadian raising" this article refers to. Thegryseone (talk) 02:08, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Possible mergers

Would any Boston accent speakers say the following pairs of words identically?:

• moss / Morse
• off / Orff
• often / orphan

or even possibly:

• shot / short
• cock / cork
• stock / stork
• cod / cord
• con / corn
• odder / order

Thanks! Grover cleveland (talk) 21:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Did a Google books search, and the answer is "yes", apparently (at least for some of them): link. Grover cleveland (talk) 21:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I think some of them might be possible in an older Boston accent, but not so much anymore. Here's the deal: Eastern New Englanders traditionally made a distinction between pairs like for and four, or horse and hoarse, which is not heard in most of the rest of the U.S. As a result of this distinction, combined with r-dropping, a Boston pronunciation of short rhymes with shot; north rhymes with moth. This distinction may be disappearing among young people (Labov, Ash and Boberg). Lafierre defines the vowel in short and forty (NORTH) as [ɒə], in contrast to the standard [oə(ɹ)]. The words that have this vowel in standard American English are divided, apparently arbitrarily, into two classes in the Boston dialect, some of which allow this alternation and some of which only use [oə]. Thegryseone (talk) 00:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Umm, I believe you are mistaken. I live around Boston, I never heard anyone make a distinction between for and four or horse or hoarse. May I please see your sources? Everyone that I know who lives in this region (friends, family, etc) always keeps their r's in their pronunciation. Does the article state it may be, or is, becoming common with younger people to be rhetoric? Я£ΙИӺΘЯСΣĐᴙᶕᵻᴎᵮᴓᴚᴐᶒᵯɘᴎᴛᶊ^Talk 03:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I know someone who distinguishes between "for" and "four". It's the historical hoarse-horse distinction, which has merged in almost all modern English dialects, I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DelAster (talk • contribs) 06:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

My fourth grade teacher had a very old school Boston accent. She pronounced "for" and "four" differently and that was noteworthy enough for my to remember it fifteen years later.72.66.69.69 (talk) 03:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I pronounce all the words in your first section differently. Most of the other words are a grey area. Shot and short sound different to me but not my husband when I say them. (I am from Boston, my husband is from another area of the country) 72.66.69.69 (talk) 03:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Reliable sources

Since when is Urban Dictionary considered a reliable source? (WP:SOURCES) --Seascic ^T/_C 17:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Quality of /ʌ/ in the Boston Accent

There seems to be an interesting phonetic quality of /ʌ/ in Boston accents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegryseone (talk • contribs) 06:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Jimmies

Jimmies have a specific definition they refer to the chocolate colored ice cream toppings. Sprinkles refer to the multi-colored candy coated kind. They are not interchangeable as this article suggests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.6.135 (talk) 05:49, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Not only are jimmies chocolate colored, but "jimmies" is used all over the northeast. It doesn't belong on this list, and neither does "cellar," but I can't begin to imagine any authoritative source for any of the words on this list. It looks entirely unencyclopedic to me. 65.123.43.130 (talk) 00:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The authoritative source is Dictionary of American Regional English. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 04:49, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

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