Talk:Branchial arch

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Branchial arches in human anatomy

There are also branchial arches in human anatomy, not just in fish (See [1] or [2]). Should information about branchial arches in human anatomy have their own page, or should they be included in this one? Moearly (talk) 19:33, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Technically, there aren't. The human embryo develops pharyngeal arches, with pharyngeal pouches between them, but with the exception of the spiracle / eustachian tube, none become patent and none become vascularized for gas exchange, thus they never reach the stage of being true branchial arches. Mokele (talk) 02:22, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Branchial Arch (with a capital "A") currently redirects to Pharyngeal arch, whereas this page (Branchial arch, small "a") is a separate article. A confusing situation! The branchial/pharyngeal arch terminology is hopelessly inconsistent. Note that the major terminology SNOMED (which is human/medical) uses "Branchial arch" as a synonym for "pharyngeal arch" (i.e. their "first branchial arch" is actually the mandibular arch/PA 1. Some sources discriminate and have BA1=PA3, others use BA1=PA1. It's a bit of a mess. I think the cleanest thing to do is to consolidate everything in a single article. There may be a case for keeping this article, but it might better be called "gill arch", given its current content. Thus we would have a page grouping all PAs, individual pages for Mandibular_arch and Hyoid arch, and an additional page for all other arches (aka gill arches, "true branchial arches", PA3+, ...). Cmungall (talk) 08:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed it so that now Branchial Arch redirects here. The two pages should remain separate because the structures are different - that humans only develop the embryological precursor is no more a valid reason for merging these two pages than it is for merging tail into coccyx. I would also oppose a move to "gill arch", as it's technically inaccurate - not all branchial arches support respiratory structures, with the best example being the pharyngeal jaws in many fish. HCA (talk) 16:13, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks HCA, the situation is much improved. However, I think the distinction could still be made clearer. Also the terminology may not be used as consistently as you think. Your response shows that you consider the mandibular arch to be a branchial arch. This is perfectly reasonable. However, others will claim that the branchial arches are the posterior 5. i.e. BA1=PA3 or branchial arch = gill arch. And it has to be acknowledged that use of the term "branchial arch" is not restricted to the bony loops found in fish. SNOMED CT is a major medical terminology and it uses "branchial arch" to denote the embryonic structure (http://www.snomedbrowser.com/Codes/Details/308766004). Try also going to http://bioportal.bioontology.org/search and searching for "branchial arch". None of these should be regarded as authoritative, just evidence the terminology is applied differently across and within communities. I favour "branchial arch skeleton" for the structure you're refering to - but even this is problematic as sometimes the laryngeal cartilages and so on are considered part of the BA skeleton. I'm not sure what to recommend though, other than placing a disambiguation note at the top of each article. Cmungall (talk) 04:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I always prefer to use the comparative terminology, since it's intended to be as consistent as possible across the greatest range of species, but I can see arguments for the medical terms (there are, after all, a lot more doctors than comparative anatomists). As far as what to do, I'd suggest maybe a section in each page just called "Terminology" or somesuch, explaining the differences in use. HCA (talk) 14:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]