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Talk:Brother's Keeper (Miami Vice)

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Notability guideline for television episodes -tag

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What part of the guideline does this article does not pass? feydey (talk) 00:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The inclusion of just the awards was not enough to establish notability. With the inclusion of that other source, it guess it's fine to remove it, though I would personally like to see more sources before it is taken off. TTN (talk) 00:11, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You just won't leave Miami Vice alone, will you TTN? El Greco(talk) 00:22, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Everything here is covered within the main article, so there is currently no reason for this to exist. Had I noticed that the quote was about the general series, I would have redirected this sooner. TTN (talk) 20:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
not everything here is covered in the main article. The episode is ah rather well known and a bunch of commentry on it turned up when the movie came out for example. Now the question is why couldn't you find that?Genisock2 (talk) 14:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Original music

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El Greco, I see you deleted my sentence about cover versions being present on the Region 1 DVD. It's original research, sure, but the point of mentioning it was to provide a counterpoint to the marketing hype about all the original music being preserved. We mustn't blindly repeat Universal's claims that all the original music is intact, when there's evidence that at least one or two songs on the very first DVD are cover versions; it's plausible that the original broadcasts didn't use these versions. Perhaps I assumed too much and didn't phrase it very well, but the point remains: I don't like the fact that you're insisting on listing what I feel are contentious songs in the article as being originals, when they're actually covers, and may not be what was originally broadcast.

The questions to be answered are:

  • Is the version of "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" on the DVD a cover, or is it Cyndi Lauper's version? I say it's a cover, because I know this song pretty well, have it on CD, and the instrumentation and vocals are pretty clearly different. You apparently disagree?
  • Is the version of "All Night Long" on the DVD a cover, or is it Lionel Richie's version? I think we both agree it's a cover.
  • Did the original broadcast use the Cyndi Lauper version of "Girls Just Want To Have Fun", or did it use the cover? I don't know the answer to this.
  • Did the original broadcast use the Lionel Richie version of "All Night Long", or did it use the cover? I don't know the answer to this. You pointed out in your edit summary that in the show, the song is played during a mimed performance by a band (that does not include Lionel Richie). I don't see this as necessarily meaning anything; they could've played Lionel Richie's version in the original broadcast and still showed the anonymous band, then swapped in the cover version on the DVD.
  • How should we represent these works when writing about the "original music" in the series?

I feel strongly that if there's a chance that there's any difference between the music used in the original broadcast and the DVDs, especially when it's clear that one or more songs on the DVDs are covers (regardless of whether the covers were also in the original broadcasts), then its our duty to present Universal's claims about the music being "original" with very specific qualifications, and to avoid parroting their marketing b.s. as fact. It's just a claim, an unverified one. —mjb (talk) 08:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, Lionel Richie's song "All Night Long" isn't song by Richie in the episode, it's not even back ground music, it's sung by a band where Crockett and Tubbs go to meet Calderone. So you can't claim that Universal used a cover version for that song, because they got somebody to sing it in the episode. Now Lauper's version sounds fine, alittle high pitched, but that could be the Dolby Digital 5.1 sound remastering they used. But the other fact remains, if Universal used a cover for Lauper's song, you're telling me that none of the Miami Vice fansites would pick it up? El Greco(talk) 16:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well if it's not Lionel Richie's performance, then it's a cover by definition. As I said, there are two issues: 1. whether or not the songs are performed by Lionel & Cyndi, and 2. whether what's on the DVD matches the original broadcasts. Did they play Lionel Richie's version while showing the random band, or did they play the cover that we hear on the DVD? Remember, they used DeBarge's original "Rhythm of the Night" while showing some random band that wasn't DeBarge, so it's quite possible they did the same for "All Night Long". Either way, I think it's misleading to say that "All Night Long" by Lionel Richie was in the show, without pointing out that on the DVD, if not also in the original broadcast, it wasn't actually the Lionel Richie performance.
The "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" vocal to me sounds like someone other than Cyndi Lauper. Instrumentation, too. It's not just pitched up. I'll give it another listen but it really struck me as "off" when I first watched the DVD.
Yes, I think it's quite possible none of the fansites would've noticed. —mjb (talk) 02:54, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've stated in the article that "All Night Long" isn't sung by Richie but by some random band at a club. Wait, didn't DeBarge sing "Rhythm of the Night" in the same episode he appeared in? Now for Lauper, I really don't know what to do. El Greco(talk) 01:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Always Check IMDb Soundtracks Sub-Pages | Issue RE What's Love Got To Do With It

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All Editors -- Please Read

Included as part of each IMDb listing of a "Miami Vice" episode -- at least for those that feature well-known songs whether credited or not -- is a sub-page called Soundtracks.

The "Brother's Keeper" IMDb SoundTracks Page lists all known songs heard in the Brother's Keeper pilot episode of the Miami Vice TV series. However, Tina Turner's "What's Love Got to do With It" is -NOT- listed on that particular page. Indeed it is not part of the "Brother's Keeper" end credits. Instead, an excerpt of the original Miami Vice theme, the same as that heard at the beginning of "Brother's Keeper" is what is heard over the end credits. I can't confirm that as far as DVD, Blu-Ray and recent other media sources are concerned, since I don't own or subscribe to those, but that's the way it was on the Hulu service when they were offering the pilot for free.

Those who edit the "Songs List" portion of the main article page may be confusing the "Brother's Keeper" pilot with Vice's season-1 epiosde "Calderone's Return II: Calderone's Demise", which was the concluding half of a two-episode story on Caledrone's return to Miami following events in the "Brother's Keeper" pilot. Those two shows, while they do indeed continue the Calderone storyline, are distinctly separate from the "Brother's Keeper" pilot.

It is in the "Calderone's Demise" episode's end credits where Turner's "What's Love" is definitely heard. The "Demise" IMDb Soundtracks page lists "What's Love" along with Russ Ballard's "Voices", the latter appearing in the teaser opening prior to the opening credits segment. I can't speak for why Phil Collins' "In The Air Tonight" is included in the IMDb "Demise" listing. I know it's in "Brother's Keeper", but I can't recall it being played in "Demise".

I'll concede that IMDb may not be regarded by some as a 100% reliable source, but it was the only one that I could refer to for this subject. BTW - I have chosen -NOT- to remove the mention of "What's Love" from the main article, as I had done once before, for the reason of not wanting to get caught up in any disputes with other editors. I can only hope that this particular issue can be peacefully resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Thank you for your time. Fgf2007 (talk) 19:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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