Talk:Casual (subculture)

Looting reference

Fans began arriving in England wearing expensive Italian and French designer clothes, sometimes looted from stores during outbreaks of violence that were commonplace when English fans travelled abroad. - I'd very much like to see more citations to back up this assertion than a single claim in some Swedish magazine. While certainly there were substantial cases of fan violence in the 70s and 80s, I don't recall any reports of large-scale looting going on, and I'm sure that the Daily Mail would have fully informed everyone if there was even the slightest suggestion it was happening. -- Arwel 19:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I didn't add the sentence in the first place, so I guess I'm not the only one to have heard about it. Well, for more sources, see for example [1], [2] and [3] (Swedish). Hope that helps a bit. -- Elisson • Talk 00:24, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I recall a BBC tv documentary on 80's hooliganism that made the same claim with interviews from a couple of scallies to back it up. According to the same programme Armani jeans were also a popular item

I'd like this page to clarify that Casuals are not a part of Skinhead, i.e., not an offshoot or variant like Suedehead, Smoothie, Sharpie or Psychobilly. Whereas the hooligan Bootboys clearly grew out of Skinhead, and relate directly or indirectly to Casuals by the obvious link of football-related violence, Casuals are only an illustrative example of the same principle of hard-edged smartness in dress also found in Skinhead.

Nuttyskin 01:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Rollback on May 15

I rolled back the edits by Neon White because the reference in my footnote calls casuals a subculture, as do many more references, some of which I added to the External links section. The footnote that Neon White added also calls casuals a subculture. Also, my other improvements were to tighten up writing by deleting repetition/redundancy, and other necessary changes like removing the word cult because that is not the correct word to describe this topic.Spylab (talk) 13:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

The reference is self publuished and not verifiable and therefore is unacceptable. [4] is the best source available and the article should be based on that which calls it a 'youth movement', there no demonstration of a subculutre in this article, only a minor fashion and however misused the term 'subculture' is in the popular media, this is an encyclopedia and claims like this require better sources to establish sociological claims. We have to be careful that wikipedia does reflect expert definition not the misuse and does not call what is merely a fashions, stereotypes, styles, trends etc a subculture when there is no evidence to suggest they are. --neonwhite user page talk 13:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Online sources that refer to casuals as a subculture

1. "For Stuart Cosgrove - television executive, broadcaster and devoted football fan - casuals are the great hidden subculture of British life, unloved by virtually everyone. ... From its pages, Hooton derided the violence that was becoming such an integral part of British football, but in every other respect he was a fully paid-up member of the casual army. He didn't start The End to chart a subculture - he was a football fan first and foremost - but he grew increasingly annoyed at what he saw as a metropolitan dismissal of a genuine working-class movement."http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20050508/ai_n14624276
2. "The Football Casual subculture wasn't about being politically led. ... Most recently, ever since the 60's when the mods took on the rockers - these type of tribal clashes of various youth cultures have dominated our shores. I cite the mods in particular, as I believe that many of the fashion principles of mod culture (clean lines, minimal styling) also lie at the heart of the Football Casual subculture. ... It just so happens, that the Football Casual subculture originated from the football terraces and their vehicle was football, fighting and fashion." http://www.footballcasual.com/history/the_history.html
3. "Football casuals has been a subculture that has existed primarily in England for the last few decades. ... Now that we have gotten that out of the way, we can turn our attention to this incredible Adidas Consortium Pack which is called the Casuals Series. Now I don’t know if this is in fact paying homage to the casuals subculture, but I have to believe that it is." http://theoriginalwinger.com/2008-04-25-adidas-consortium-pack-the-casual-series
4. "It's a bit Sexy Beast, a bit Goodfellas and a little bit Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - the swearing and violence will offend some - but where it carves out a singular niche in British cinema is in its detailed reverence for the clothes and music of the hitherto little-examined eighties 'casual' subculture. According to Love, he struck a chord unwittingly. 'I just wanted to make a film about a subculture and get it right." http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,,1548672,00.html
5. Pdf of published book that referss to casuals as a subculture. http://books.google.ca/books?id=03w9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=casuals+subculture&source=web&ots=lS3rYvtpIR&sig=SM7FALyEDZQVD2DUJ9ivak3W3yY&hl=en#PPA101,M1
6. "In the 1980s, when fighting at football was commonplace in the United Kingdom. British police would be on the lookout for fans wearing skinhead fashions or cheap work wear. Hardcore hooligans started to wear the expensive clothing as a result of looting designer boutiques during riots in European Competition. This led to the development of the casual subculture." http://www.blackdanny.co.uk/firmingup.htm
7. Casuals, as Thornton points out, began as a post-mod, post-skinhead subculture in the 1977-8 football season in Britain, initially in the North of England on Merseyside, closely followed by Manchester, and later in London and Scottish cities."http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:3UjmDzc6CZ8J:www.pierretristam.com/pdfs/wc1.pdf+casuals+subculture&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=17&gl=ca
8. "I admit I get a bit lost during the explanation. There are plenty of ideas at work here – religion, the stultifying nature of the fashion industry and redefining the casual sub-culture, one that he feels has been tainted by football hooligans." http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article628723.ece
9. "The Channel 4 boss and radio broadcaster made the comments ahead of the publication of a new book examining the phenomenon. ... Cosgrove said that casuals are the great hidden subculture of British life: "Mainstream football fans resent their violence, sociology lecturers can't think of anything interesting to say about them and even the companies whose labels they sport just wish they would go away." http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20050508/ai_n14619610
10. "The books celebrate, and romanticise, a whole hooligan youth subculture of yesteryear situating football casuals in a subcultural timeline from the scuttlers of the late nineteenth century through teds, rockers, mods and skinheads in the 1950s and 1960s and suedeheads and punks first seen in the 1970s." and more. http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/law/elj/eslj/issues/volume5/number2/redhead
11. "Employing a series of potent anecdotes, Phil Thornton's Casuals documents the origins and progression of casual culture in the UK from the 1970s on. Outside the of the fashion industry, away from the self-appointed cognoscenti, casuals formulated their own styles, promoting a shared identity and building a unique set of standards. From Liverpool to London, and points in between, the development of this fashion driven subculture was spurred by Football related travel, creating an intriguing dyad between mainstream and underground."http://socialconsumer.com/2007/10/24/book-review-casuals/

According to Wikipedia citation guidelines, casuals are a subculture.Spylab (talk) 00:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

films

what about awaydays and I.d is about football hooliganism and is a fucking great film but there arent realy any casuals in it are there

what

So every casual group has links with football hoolaginism? Thats what I gather from the first sentence of this article, and its so offensive that im removing it; please have pity on my soul oh mighty wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.215.11 (talk) 19:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Totally Incomprehensible to Americans

What are these people about? Is it clothes, politics, soccer, or music? As an American, I find this explanation completely incomprehensible. Please, somebody who understands this, re-write it so that it makes sense to someone who isn't British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.229.211.31 (talk) 03:31, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Essay

The whole article seems to be made up of opinion / original research / unsourced statements. Maybe someone could re-write it so it's more like an encyclopedia article and less like a grade-C sixth-form sociology essay ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 12:45, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Liverpool and Everton in Europe in the late 70s

"The casual subculture began in the late 1970s after Liverpool F.C.and Everton F.C. fans introduced the rest of England to European fashions that they acquired while following their teams at European games"

A citation is definately needed for this. A quick glance at any wikipedia section on the various European trophies shows that in the late '70s Liverpool only played away at Nottingham Forest (England) and Dynamo Tblisi (USSR) while Everton played away at Finn Harps (Ireland) and Dukla Prague (Czechoslovakia). These places were hardly hotbeds of continental fashion. Perhaps someone could provide a source for this that isn't just some dewy eyed scouser making up a load of romanticised shit.

89.241.216.219 (talk) 08:21, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

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