Talk:Charter school

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Education (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Schools (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
Note icon
This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Charter school. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 15:40, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 November 2016[edit]

The term charter school should be linked to this external link: This is the National Charter School Resource Center and can provide even more information on what a charter school is, how to start a charter school, and access to reports, webinars, case studies, etc.

Mmryanks9 (talk) 21:41, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done External links do not belong in the bodies of articles, only in external links sections and limited other places. This link also doesn't appear to be a reliable source, as it's produced by a consulting company with no indication of having a reputation for accuracy and fact-checking, which is required by guidelines. What, exactly, is the NCSRC? What is it, who is it, and what is its mission? I couldn't find anything on that site. The lack of info on that website is suspicious, and the Jumbo US Dept. of Education logo over a tiny disclaimer message doesn't help matters. Grayfell (talk) 22:23, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

This article is propaganda[edit]

I don't want to get into edit wars, but this article is pure propaganda.

Take something like this quote about the Massachusetts charter school model: "This funding scheme, and others like it across the United States ensure the profitability of these businesses, which is further enhanced by the fact that the service they provide does not follow the law of supply and demand.[16] This is because the demand for k-12 education, in the current funding scheme, is dependent solely on population growth and relatively disconnected to price.[16] Profitability is high and investment in charter schools is highly recommended by several investors interviewed for a Washington Post article.[17]"

Massachusetts requires charter schools to be not-for-profits.

Or take this quote:

"Despite the favorable public perception of charter schools their benefits are disputable. According to Stanford University studies the difference in performance between public and private schools is not conclusively significant.[18]"

The citation links to CREDO, which says nothing of the sort, and indeed, a top link there is a Snope's style article from CREDO debunking such claims:

The article, like every such article from Harvard, Columbia, MIT, Berkeley, and every other credible research institution concludes charter schools have an undisputable and positive impact on student outcomes

Is there a way to fix this and lock it down? This is an issue with powerful political players and lots of astroturf. I suspect any edit would get reverted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:24, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

You can edit the article, and looking at the history, I wouldn't assume it's going to get reverted. Either way, it's not going to be preemptively locked down, so you will need some specific signs of political high-jinks for that to happen. There's a lot going on here. The article is a mess, and that section on Mass. was particularly bad for a couple of reasons, so I've removed it. You're going to find a lot of people who dispute the positive outcomes, though, and not all of them are astroturf, so "indisputable" is the wrong word. The way to deal with this is through reliable sources explaining the different positions. Credo might be a reliable outlet, but just linking to the main page, as the article unfortunately did, is unhelpful. Whatever is at the top of that site's homepage is unlikely to stay for very long, and it's hard to know which study was being indicated. Huffington Post's "The Blog" is not generally considered reliable by Wikipedia's standards, by the way. Grayfell (talk) 10:28, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
If you'd like citations:
Florida study:
Harvard Graduate School of Education review of studies (this is nice since it goes over many, and shows either a positive effect or no effect, depending on measure):
People would dispute it. People also dispute climate change, and that the Earth is more than 6000 years old. Science suggests the opposite, with varying levels of evidence -- more for benefits of charter schools than for age of the Earth, ironically, although both fall well into the "indisputable" zone at this point. There are a few studies that show bad charter schools underperform and then disappear (Texas study is a good example), but the data shows a similar conclusion, only with a longer timescale. In that one, no-excuses charter schools do well, while other forms do badly, making it a wash overall. But other forms also disappear pretty quickly. And Stanford's CREDO does publish in sources other than Huffington Post, with much the same conclusions as the HP article, only with peer review. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:56, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
The idea that the academic consensus on the age of the Earth is weaker than the academic consensus on the benefit of charter schools is, I'm hoping, hyperbole, as the age of the Earth is absolutely central to multiple scientific disciplines and is very widely documented and discussed. For charter schools, on the other hand, there is dispute among reputable academics, so this is not just a WP:FRINGE perspective like creationism. School choice#Debate also needs a lot of work (putting it mildly) but it includes several sourced explanations for why charter schools are legitimately controversial, even acknowledging that there are demonstrated benefits. And there are benefits, but it's too simplistic to stop there without going deeper. This is not just about individual outcomes, this is also about scalability, impact on non-charter schools, financial issues, institutional racism, and much, much more. The article doesn't have to try and cover all of those, but we shouldn't actively ignore them.
"No excuses" is especially controversial for its own set of reasons, -again, not just among the fringes, but by reputable academics.[1][2][etc] Studies on individual outcomes have their place, but even if they are top-notch they don't necessarily address these issues. Grayfell (talk) 05:52, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is the criticism section blank?[edit]

I noticed that there is a criticism section in this article that is now blank. Was that the subject of some vandalism, or has this just not be fleshed out yet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JollyGreenJesus (talkcontribs) 17:42, 18 January 2017 (UTC)


I just happened upon this page in an effort to learn more about charter schools. Generally, a good article begins with a neutral definition, but any definition of "charter school" that cites as a reference "Charter schools and the attack on public education" " would seem to be short of neutral. Why not use a definition from one of the online dictionaries, such as Merriam-Webster's definition of charter school: "a tax-supported school established by a charter between a granting body (as a school board) and an outside group (as of teachers and parents) which operates the school without most local and state educational regulations so as to achieve set goals". I would do this myself but do not have the time and interest to sustain a prolonged dialogue concerning charter schools. James809 (talk) 14:17, 28 January 2017 (UTC)