Talk:Chera dynasty

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Untitled[edit]

Should'nt the succeeding States of Cheras be Zamorins, Kochi and Travancore( prominent among rather multitude of States that were formed after the fall of the chera empire in the 12th Century).Although the hoysala and Vijaynagar kings had conquered parts of the earlier "Chera areas", the chera kingdom broke up into many small Feudal kingdoms( "nattu rajyam")activevoid 20:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge Chera Kingdom with this??[edit]

Looks like the articles are very similar (not completely identical)... The contemporary Chola kingdom is described in Chola dynasty, while the Chola Kingdom is about the epic kingdom in Mahabharata. I think Chera Kingdom should redirect here Sadalmelik 17:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Dravidian civilizations[edit]

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Wiki Raja 09:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Edits on December 12, 2007[edit]

Can somebody review on edits happened on December 12. I felt there is serious flaws on the edits.

Sentences like "Evidence for extensive foreign trade from ancient times is available throughout the Malabar coast, from the Roman, Greek and Arabic coins unearthed from Kollam, Kodungallur, Eyyal (near Trissur) in Northern Kerala"

are changed to

"Evidence for extensive foreign trade from ancient times is available throughout Kongu Nadu, Coimbatore, Palani, Karur, Salem and Dharmapuri"

I had placed a {{primarysources}} and {{confusing}} tags and that has been removed. Please confirm so that the actual revision can be restored. Thank You. P|^|C (talk) 09:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


Removed POV Template[edit]

Removed POV template showing the kingdoms of Northern India as Empires, and kingdoms of Southern India as dynasties. No evidence as to whether all Northern kingdoms were Empires, while all Southern kingdoms were dynasties. Ashoka kingdom of Northern India is an Empire since it has controlled everything in South Asia outside its boundaries accept for Tamil Nadu, Kerala, and Sri Lanka. While the Cholas of Southern India is also an Empire stretching from South India to Sri Lanka, Maldives, Malaysia, Sumatra, and Java with its Navies. "Middle Kingdoms of India" template shows only bias towards Indo-Aryan kingdoms, and also making it seem that the Indian Union existed for thousands of years. Wiki Raja (talk) 06:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

NonSense[edit]

"'Purananuru' refers to Udiyan Cheral, who probably ruled in the first century CE. It is said that he fed the rival armies during the war of Mahabharata. Imayavaramban Neduncheralathan, another Sangam age king claimed to have conquered up to the Himalayas and to have inscribed his emblem in the face of the mountains. Senguttuvan was another famous Chera, whose contemporary Gajabahu II of Lanka according to Mahavamsa visited the Chera country.[6]"

This is just a nonsense cause if Udiyan Cheral was known to have ruled first century CE he can not possibly serve food in the Mahabaratha time which happened or was written to be before Christ. --Challiyan (talk) 12:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Cheras and Pandyas both belong to the Villavar-Meenavar of Dravidian stock.During Mahabharatha times,around 1500 BC a prehistoric Pandya Kingdomdid exist and the flag of the kingdom was having Bow and arrow emblem. The king was kalled Saranga Dwajan meaning Bow flagged king. Similarly like the Malayaman flag of latter age Malayamantribe the another king from Pandya kingdom was called Malaya Dwaja(Hill Flagged king).Fish(Meen) Hill(Malai) and Bow and Arrow (Vil) seem to the ancient emblems of Villavar(Chera)MeenavarPandyan Kings. [1].The Dravidian kingdoms are many thousand years old though History is available only from the Sangha age ie since 500 BC.Another Utiyan Cheral could have lived during the Mahabharata period.Since the ancient Pandya Kingdom encompassed all the areas from Udupi(Gokarna) in Karnataka,Kerala and Tamil Nadu according to Mahabharata the Chera king was perhaps under the tutelage of Pandya king that time.Mahabharatha is a precious document of Indian history. Vilmeenkodi (talk) 18:58, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Tamil Or Malayalam[edit]

According to Eminent linguists like the great poet Ulloor, Malayalam has characteristics of an older language than "Paanti Tamizh". Tamizh meant language, and modern Tamil was referred to as "Paanti Tamizh". Malayalam was referred to as "Malanaattu Tamizh". Tulu was referred to as "Tulunaattu Tamizh". Kannada was referred to as "Karunaattu Tamizh".

Hermann Gundert referred to the ancient South Indian language as "Dramilam". So, how is Chera Dynasty "Tamil Dynasty"? Is not it Old Malayalam Dynasty? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Appu2000 (talkcontribs) 02:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Down with Tamil extremism. 160.80.2.8 (talk) 15:50, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Sangam Cheras are Tamils and not "Malayali"[edit]

There is difference between the two dynasties. They are in no way connected. This problem arises because in TN we know the diff. between Sangam, Medievel and later Cholas and Pandyas. In Kerala's history, no such long living dynasty existed.

The Kerala Varmas were in no way inferior. Remember Keralolpatti which says that the Cheras were from "paradesam" esp. east of Kerala-Malayalam which could be accessed only thro the Nerumangalam pass. I dony say that K has no history. I rather say that Kerala always was diff from "Tamilakam"..it is Koduntamizh mandalam as specified. Please read thurston K.Ulpatti,K.Vakshakramam and K.Mahatmyam for more insight. PS I am not the one the above post is referring to Konguboy (talk) 16:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

All I am saying is that before you rewrite the entire article, discuss every section properly here. Axxn (talk) 17:18, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Sangam age Cheras were of course Tamils, Malayalam was not even born in the Sangam era. The connection between the Later and Sangam age Cheras is well authorized by historians. And finally, you cant just add Tamil racism here.

18:01, 26 April 2011 (UTC))
I can see that the user Konguboy has been blocked multiple times earlier also for adding similar POV and ethnic hatred (Eg. here). So I am reverting his edits. If he blanks the sections again, I am going to ANI. Chandrakantha.Mannadiar (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

>>you cant just add Tamil racism here Again, i plead you to read K. Ulpatti, K. Vakshakramam and K. Mahatmyam with Edgar Thurstond section on Namputhiris. Sangunni Menon is not an archeologist while Nagaswami is. Also remember that Malayala and Kerala desams r distinct.

@ C. Mannadiar. I can also do the same. See ur talk page for example. Be academic. This is not a cat and mouse game. What I said is from K. Ulpatti itself and not some Tamil racial text.

@ all. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CheraKonguboy (talk) 08:41, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Note: This user Konguboy is adding and deleting articles like Chera Nadu Muziris Cheraman Perumal (Nayanar) Cheraman Perumal Tyndis Vanchi Muthur Kulashekhara Alwar

also, with no mercy along with this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.117.210.248 (talk) 17:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


For people involved in this. User konguboy and other IPs are socks of the indef blocked sock master User:PONDHEEPANKAR. He uses a variety of socks and three ip ranges - 59.96.26.14/20, 117.206.96.0/20 and 59.92.112.0/20. Please ignore him and revert on sight. If you find any more accounts repeating this behaviour file an WP:SPI--Sodabottle (talk) 10:34, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Who were the Cheras, Cholas and the Pandyas? The word Cheran. Chera or Sera is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘Chaaraka’ -which means ‘one who moves around on errands as a messenger as directed by his master.’ The Hindi equivalent for Chaaraka is Cheraa or Chela which means a servant. Now a days the word Chela is used to mean disciple, a friend or a companion. The feminine gender for Chera or Chela is Cheri or Cheli which means a maidservant. In the mediaeval period the kings and rich people used to employ a number of maid servants in their palaces, who were called as Cherias or Cheliyas. The sons born to these maids were called the Cheria- putrans or Cheriya- thanayas (sons of the house-maids).

Maha Padma Nanda (400-329 B.C.)  was the first non-Kshatriya  king who ruled over the  Magadha Kingdom.  He was the son of a Sudra woman who worked as a   housemaid in the palace of King Mahanandi. He usurped the Kingdom by killing the queen and her children ( Maha Padma Nanda –Wikipedia). As the Brahmins refused to recognize him as the king, he embraced Jainism.  A number of housemaids belonging to different castes used to work in the palace of the king and his nine sons. Most of these maids were Bhotiya women who migrated to the plains of North India from Tibet, Nepal and Bhutan in search of livelihood.. They were all called  Bhotiyas  or Nagas,  a matriarchal  society,  who worshiped  a  Himalayan Goddess called  Bhattini, ( called as’ Pattini)  in Tamil). It looks like that Maha Padma Nanda, unlike the earlier Kshatriya kings, took good care of the children born to his house-maids and appointed them as commanders of the elephant, horse, Chariot and infantry battalions in his great army.

Maha Padma Nanda being a shrewd diplomat appears to have sent the sons of his house maids to capture the entire east and west coast of India a few years before or after the invasion of Alexander the Great to protect his kingdom from any invasions by the sea and also to monopolize the entire spice trade that originated from South India. These commanders of Magadha Army established prestigious kingdoms in the states of Orissa, Andhra Pradesh , Tamilnadu. Karnataka and Kerala. For example it can be seen that the first Chera king called himself as Imaya Varamban Nedum Cherlatan- which can be written as Himaya +Vara + Amba + Nedum + Cherala +tan ( the son of a house maid who is blessed by the great Mother of the Himalayas) . Nedum may the proper name of the king or his mother. ‘Tan’ is a short form for thanaya ( which means a son ) This word appears also in the name of the great Pandya King Nedum-Cheliyan (-Nedum who is the son of a house-maid). Thus it can be seen that the words Cherian and the Chelian ( Cholan) mean the same thing. The name of another chera king is Vanavaramban Perum Chottu Udiyan Cheralthan which can be analyzed as Vana+vara+Amban + Perum+ Chottu + Udayan + Cherl + than, which means blessed son of the Great Mother of the noble forest, very short, Udayan the son of a cheri,(the house maid). All these kings transferred their loyalty to the Maurya kings after the fall of the Nanda Dynasty. Emperor Ashoka called them affectionately as’ Kerala-putras’ or’ Cherala-putras’ and accepted rich tributes from them without invading their territories. ( Ref: Hathigumpha inscriptions of King Kharavela- c. 150 B.C.E.). The Chinese traveler Huen Tsang expressed his surprise to find that these kings looked just like the Chinese. To conclude it can be surmised that none of these kings namely, the Cheras .the, Pandyas and the Cholas were native South Indians. They were all deputies of the Magadha emperors. They belonged to a Himalayan tribe which descended from Bhutan .They were all very short, red in color, belonged to a matriarchal society, which always takes the name of their mother before their proper name, practiced Jainism and later shifted to Buddhism. They also worshipped Lord Shiva, the God of the Himalayas and a Goddess called Bhattini ( a Himalayan Goddess worshipped in Bhutan and Nepal) and who is richly described in the famous Tamil epic ‘Silappadikaram’. They were also very shrewd businessmen. They owned a great fleet for military as well as commercial purposes.The Hoyasalas ( Haya Shaalas) and the Satavahanas( commanders of of hundred chariots) and Sata Karanis ( commanders of hundred elephants) also belong to the same category. All these kings ruled independently but paid tributes annually to the the Magadha emperor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Banda.krishna (talkcontribs) 15:41, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

IP edit warring with multiple editors including Sodabottle[edit]

117.206.107.58 stop edit warring and come here now before you get blocked--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 09:00, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting him .This is the indef blocked sockmaster and pov pusher PONDHEEPANKAR. per WP:DENY dont talk to him, just revert without pause. This ip range was blocked for a week and it expired yesterday. So he is back to his old activities. Just revert him and ignore him.--Sodabottle (talk) 09:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

The exports of CHERA[edit]

It is known that early tamils(Chera)were massive warriors and creators of massive weapons.Damascus steel were actually found by the early tamils both in india and lanka and they were massively exported to western civilisation such as greece.Swords,tridents are the examples of weapons that were exported from tamillakam.Please include this information in this CHERA articles.--Tan Meifen (talk) 12:45, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Malayalam is not spoken in Chera Dynasty[edit]

Malayalam is not spoken even in second Chera Dynasty.The kingdom of Cheras comprised the modern state of Kerala,along with the Malabar Coast.The people of Kerala which constitute the ancient territories of the Cheras spoke the same language and had extensive interaction with the rest of Tamil Country.The Sanskrition of western Tamil country(Kerala)starts with a power in 9th and 10th century.Due to Sanskrit influence on their Tamil,their individual identity changed and new language(Malayalam)began to evolve and at 15th century Malayalam took its shape as current Malayalam language spoken by current people of Kerala.Even before the 11th century,the language is still considered a dialect of Tamil same as other dialects of Tamil spoken in Sri Lanka,Karnataka and Tamil country.The Cheras used only Tamil even in Second Cheras era where the important Kings such as Kulasekhara Varman is a Tamil Vaishnava saint(Alvar).The Cheras even doesnt have a Sanskrit version of origin like Cholas and Pandyans.They had a pure Tamil origin.Please remove Malayalam which is incorrectly stated as a language used by the Cheras.--Tan Meifen (talk) 07:00, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Wrong Information on Article[edit]

It seems that an important stimulus to state formation in southern India came from the Maurya empire in the north.[2] It is quite possible that the Maurya army who reached the Mysore borders in their conquest southwards, encountered the megalith making tribes who lived in hill forts and controlled the surrounding countryside

I want to clearly mention that Chera dynasty is not the earliest or the first kingdon that was established in ancient South India.The Pandyans were the first of the Three Celestial(other being Chera and Chola)to be established even before 1000BCE followed by Chera formed before 500BCE and finally the Cholas which is established before 300BCE.The only North Indian kingdon that have recorded their knowledge on the existence of South Indian Kingdom was the Mauryas.(in terms of Magadha,established around 600BCE,but never mentioned anything about South Indian kingdom)The Mauryas itself is established in 321BCE(after Alexander's campaign of Sindh),so how can a kingdom\empire that does not exist during the formation of Southern kingdom can contribute for formation of these Southern Indian Kingdom?It is impossible to mention that the idea of state formation of Cheras came from the Mauryas.Another question is,if Chera kingdom is not formed why the Mauryas is not able to conquer the land of the Three Celestials.During the arrival of Maurya,even the Cholas state also had already formed and the inteligence and war abilities of Ilamcetcenni(early chola king) against Mauryas were recorded in ancient Tamil literature.As whole it is quite unpractical and it is impossible to conclude that the Chera/any southern kingdoms were formed because of the Mauryas.The sentences that delivered these ideas(above) in this article also is not in a mood that delivers fact but just assumption.Please remove these kind of sentences or unpractical assumptions.The Mauryas never had control on any parts of ancient Tamil land.

The southern kingdoms such as that of the Cheras would not have been developed without the rapid spread of iron technology.

I would like to know why the Dakshina Patha became so important while these Cheras just mentioned as tribe.I also like to stress that no tribe in this world or to a lesser extent India,can propel sea trade between Western civilisation.It is also noted that in maritime India the shores of Cheras(Malabar Coast)and the shores of Pandya and Cholas had the ultimate importance compared to other parts of India.The sentence above also tries to convey a wrong idea that the iron tecnology in south is from north.The Cheras have been importing weapons made of Damascus steel to western civilisation from a very early period,even before the Alexander came to Macedonia's throne.The iron and weapon technologied that were used by three celestials were their own and is indigenous to their region.--Vartharajulu Naidu (talk) 10:02, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Yavanas of the coast[edit]

Mention is made of the victory of King Nedum Cheralatan who defeated the Yavanas (Greeks? Romans?) of the coast and captured the Yavana chief and paraded him in the Chera capital. Nedum Cheralathan is said to have lived in the 4th century AD. The Peutinger tables have a "temple of Augustus" near Muzuris, and it may have been a local big temple which was mis-identified as a temple of Augustus.

source: A survey of Kerala history by Prof: A Sreedhara Menon, 1996 edition, published by S. Viswanathan Printers and publishers.

Keralolpathi - Panikkassery source[edit]

Can anyone tell me more about the Keralolpathi source authored by Panikkassery? I know what the primary material is but:

  1. Who is the author? What are their credentials?
  2. Is it just a translation?
  3. Who are the publishers - I've never heard of them

I'm concerned that the thing may not count as a reliable source. Can we not find a modern academic history book that discusses the points that are supported by this source? - Sitush (talk) 06:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Religion[edit]

@Jossyys: Thanks for adding the citations. You are right in that the prevalence of these religions are of historic importance which is why they are already present in the article body. The infobox should however only list major religions as evidenced here. Similarly, we only list common/major languages under Languages. Minuscule percentages do not qualify as major.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 10:48, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

The book A Survey of Kerala History says that the people of ancient Kerala followed Dravidian practices which were not based on any particular religious philosophy [2]. It also says that all these three religions made steady progress within the framework of a free and open society and left their indelible impress on Kerala culture [3]. Those three religions must be Jainism, Buddhism and Hinduism. This book mentions the progress of Christianity and Judaism in ancient Kerala as well [4]. In this context, is it correct to mention only one religion in the infobox and overlook other mainstream religions that were part of that region during that period? Jossyys (talk) 00:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Good job on digging these up :) I'd suggest that the Society and religion section should first be expanded to include a summary of all the views presented by Menon; the infobox should be supported by the contents of this section. Out of curiosity, is Cultural Heritage of Kerala (1978) considered a second edition of A Survey of Kerala (1967)? There appear to be a number of significant changes between what are otherwise the same passages with the later book being a lot more circumspect in its pronouncements. I also see that this article relies overwhelmingly on these and other books by Sreedhara Menon.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 16:08, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion. In the early Chera period, the majority of the population followed Dravidian practices not based on any particular religious philosophy. There was no state religion. All mainstream religions came to the Chera land and got followers gradually. The percentage of people following any particular religion was not big. Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity were there in the first Chera period and all these religions had considerable influence on the society. So we can expand the Society and religion section and restore the earlier infobox that conveys this information. We do not have any statistics to come to a precise conclusion. The Chera kingdom was not too big to ignore any of these religions. Jossyys (talk) 03:26, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
In fact, Cultural Heritage of Kerala (1978) is not a second edition of A Survey of Kerala History (1967); according to the author, A Sreedhara Menon, it is a self-contained companion volume. Jossyys (talk) 03:26, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
That's a little odd considering the verbatim nature of many passages and chapter structures. Menon has also appeared to have significantly revised his views in his later book; but I'm leery of the quality of scholarship as well as the datedness of both of them in general. IMO, alternate, additional sources are required for this entire article. But I expect that they will be tough to find. Anyhow, on second thought, I don't think anything can be reliably done about this section as the entire article is a bit of a mess and in need of a complete overhaul. The Society and Religion section is currently restricted as it is placed under a Sangam Era section. So, anything from the time of the Later Cheras can't be included here. Besides, Menon deals with "Kerala" rather than just the "Cheras" which consequently requires an additional filter. With respect to the infobox, I would only include Dravidian folk religion and Hinduism; a case could be made for Buddhism and Jainism, but I don't think Christianity, Judaism, and Islam can be counted as major religions of the Chera kingdoms. Then again, I think the infobox is the least of this article's issues and IMO, it's of little import what goes in there until the rest of the article is fixed.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 14:05, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Coat of arms[edit]

@Chenmalli: "Copper coins with Chera symbols such as the bow and arrow" does not mean that the Cheras had either a coat of arms, or one with a bow or an arrow or a bow and an arrow on a yellow background and a weird flag. These are all fictitious depictions and do not belong in an encyclopaedia. You are welcome to cite Singh and add a note about Chera coinage. But the flag/coat of arms is WP:OR. Please also acquaint yourself with WP:BRD.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 12:34, 9 April 2016 (UTC)