Talk:Coregonus albula

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no move. Una Smith (talk) 23:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


Coregonus albulaVendace — This species is clearly the primary meaning of the term "vendace", the other meanings (at Vendace (disambiguation)) being a rare insular relative of the vendace and a ship. —innotata (TalkContribs) 15:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I forgot to put all the tags and everything; consider this the replacement discussion. The vendace of Europe is a well known common fish, while the other meanings are quite obscure. —innotata (TalkContribs) 20:33, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Is the vernacular name "vendace" used throughout Europe, ie by other than English speakers? Or is it just this species that is common, not the name? --Una Smith (talk) 20:40, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
(this what I was going to type, edit conflict) To further clarify, the British fish is usually considered an undifferentiated population or a subspecies of this species. —innotata (TalkContribs) 20:45, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Whoops, forgot to type a response. Actually I've been reconsidering this, and I think it would be good for vendace to be moved to the dab page and all links corrected. I think I've put down most relevant details, anything else would be tiresome. At any rate the name "vendace" should be used in the taxoboxes of both species, as it is the FishBase name. —innotata (TalkContribs) 20:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the name "vendace" originally referred to albula, which may have been formerly present in parts of southern Britain—I can't tell from my sources. —innotata (TalkContribs) 21:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
The taxonomy of these fish is a largely separate issue from the names of Wikipedia pages. At present there are articles on two fish species in Britain, both called vendace, and a redirect for a third. Those species may not be true species, in which case the page names should be redirects to the relevant species page(s), where the reader will find an explanation of the taxonomic history of the junior synonyms. Now, the vernacular name vendace. I gather the name itself is British, and applies to these fish populations (whether 1 species or 3) in Britain, not necessarily to related fish on the Continent. If the name vendace generally is not applied to fish on the Continent then I would consider creating Vendace (fish) and gathering on that one page all the content about the British populations/subspeces/species, also the etymology of the name "vendace" and what that name has to do with gwyniad (a Welsh common name of Coregonus pennantii). I am not sure that a Welsh common name for this fish even belongs on English Wikipedia. --Una Smith (talk) 21:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
As for the gwyniad, it is the FishBase name, remember. —innotata (TalkContribs) 21:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

One thing I know for certain is that there are no albulas in Britain today. —innotata (TalkContribs) 21:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the page vendace should be moved as I just suggested, until somebody can find out more, but I don't really care at this point. 21:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
The incoming links to Vendace refer to several different taxonomic concepts. They include C. albula all over Europe, and the putative separate (and rare) species in Britain. If the article about C. albula were moved to Vendace, then all those incoming links would need to be rewritten to clarify that they refer to rare populations of fish that may or may not be species in their own right. --Una Smith (talk) 21:28, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, now I'm coming back to this matter with my wits together. First, more on the taxonomy: it turns out some more species yet have been split from the vendace: least cisco among them. Next, as for the name: this is really, really complicated as I've noted, and the scientific names are probably the most useful ones for names. The term vendace must just mean "whitefish". I think that vendace should be the extended dab page you requested, with the ship having a little hatnote. —innotata (TalkContribs) 21:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Here is the draft text for a vendace article:

Vendace is a term that applies to a number of species of fish, but especially these species of whitefish:

(etymology?) —innotata (TalkContribs) 22:11, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I have expanded Vendace (disambiguation), and proposed moving it to Vendace. Shall we close this proposal? --Una Smith (talk) 23:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

yes, go for it. —innotata (TalkContribs) 23:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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