Talk:County palatine

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Untitled[edit]

I'm changing the sentence "In addition to these, Cornwall is generally considered as a County Palatine because of its position in England as a Duchy, which, according to custom has more power and independence than a Dukedom." to "In addition to these, Cornwall is generally considered as a County Palatine because of its position in England as a Duchy, which, according to custom has more power and independence than a County." As far as I know a Dukedom is another name for a Duchy. The artical for Dukedom is just a disambiguous page that leads to Duchy, Duke, and Dukedom, Kentucky. I don't really know much about the status of various administrative regions in modern or medieval England, but in the context of the article County makes sense to me. If anyone thinks this is incorrect, please change it. marnues (talk) 20:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

A Dukedom is not another name for a Duchy. A Dukedom is a title. Most British titles are landless, pieces of paper given by the Monarch to a person whom the Monarch wished to have sitting in the House of Lords. These landless titles were usually granted with inheritance reserved to male-only lines of descent. In earlier (i.e. feudal) times some titles were tied to real-estate. Since real-estate could be inherited by a brotherless daughter, the title too, tied to that real-estate, would also be inherited by such brotherless daughter. Today such a title is STILL inheritable by a brotherless daughter even though the title has no land anymore. Only two titles still have land attached: Duke of Lancaster and Duke of Cornwall. Because of the land these are called Duchies instead of Dukedoms. A Duchy is like a real-estate holding company. It doesn't own ALL of the land in Lancashire or Cornwall, but it owns some of it. At present the Duke of Lancaster is Queen Elizabeth II, and the Duke of Cornwall is Charles Prince of Wales. The Duke of Westminster owns a lot of land, and maybe in aggregate its value (because so much of it is in London's highest-priced locales) is greater than the land owned by the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster combined, but his land-ownership is his own private matter, not related to his possession of his Dukedom-title.69.86.130.90 (talk) 13:50, 22 January 2011 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
This article is incomprehensible. In what way are Durham, Cheshire and Lancashire actually governed differently than the rest? 82.139.86.4 (talk) 17:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


"a gold coronet which is otherwise used only by dukes"??[edit]

There is a problem caused by the fact that, in heraldry (which, in this case, runs counter to common sense), a "ducal coronet" is not the coronet used by Dukes.

A "ducal coronet" has four strawberry-leaves. In a drawing, one leaf is visible in full, one is completely hidden on the backside, and two are half-visible in profile as bookends.

The coronets used by non-Prince Dukes (i.e. worn by non-Princely Dukedom-holders at coronations, and appearing in the crest atop their coat-of-arms in their full-blown heraldic achievements) have eight strawberry-leaves. In a drawing, three leaves are visible in full, three are completely hidden on the backside, and two are half-visible in profile as bookends.

The mitre in the "Bishop of Durham" article is drawn with the four-leaf rim of a "ducal coronet".

If additonal research shows that Durham's mitre has the coronet-rim that is used by Dukes, then this "County Palatine" article is correct and the drawing at "Bishop of Durham" is wrong because it has the four-leaf rim instead of eight-leaf.

Alternatively, if additional research shows that Durham's mitre has the rim of a so-called "ducal coronet", then the drawing at "Bishop of Durham" is correct and this County-Palatine article is wrong because it describes the coronet incorrectly as "used only by Dukes" rather than, correctly, as "a ducal coronet".

I would like to thank in advance the person who has heraldic resources greater than my own and who undertakes this research.69.86.130.90 (talk) 14:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson